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cnemmick

[IACP] Season 2 Announcement

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Posted (edited)

Okay, first impressions, obviously unplayed: I like most of the changes.  The biggest question marks I see are the updated eRebel Troopers not being worth 9 points, and -DEFINITELY- not 10 with an attachment (and most likely but less certain: eStormtroopers still not being worth 7 or 8); and the eTrandoshans at 5 points each, with 8 health, no defense boosts, and needing to get up close and personal for best results: hard pass on both, I'll let others playtest them, maybe they'll surprise me.

Edited by IndyPendant

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Posted (edited)

Well yes, but they give 9 points to the opponent when killed.  That's what I'm going on.  (And I could have been way more precise in my commentary.  *clears throat* ; )

Like I said, I could be wrong on these figures, and they can always be further fixed later even if I'm right.  I am saying though that based on absolutely no playtesting whatsoever, for me at least there's enough new toys to play with that those two deployments won't be among them.

Edited by IndyPendant

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Untested impressions:

-Boba Fett looks fun.  I like the movement point to use ability mechanic.  Also like change to the dice pool.  Give you the option to get up close or play sniper.  

-I like the skirmish attachment for troopers.  Still not sure how excited I am about the troopers themselves though.  This probably isn't what you wanted to hear but my first thought was "I wonder if this would make rangers better" (the answer is no btw, at least not really). Will have to see.

-Love the Fenn, Gaarkhan ,and Jyn change.  Shouldn't have trouble fitting any one of them into a list.

-I think the reduction of Chewie and the RGC make them playable.  Still kinda meh about the royal guards themselves.  Pretty similar feeling to the wookie warriors actually.  Figures with the guardian trait may get their fix through command cards.  Like a reverse Hunter sort of thing.  Just an idea. 

-Luke needed a reroll.  I'm on board for this.  Also like the force user command cards.  I'd actually bring those.

-Disagree with increasing Somos to 7 (even with advance coms change).  I was initially concerned about death trooper shenanigans, but after playing some games I'm not.  You could have an entire Imp archetype built around squad tactics with Thrawn, Somos, and eventually Blaise.  I'll keep an open mind, but this is where I am now.

-On board for the trando update.  Can easily fit them in to a Hunter/brawler hybrid list.  Also good to hear Bossk will get a tweaking in future updates.

-Weiss looks playable but I'm still skeptical about the AT-ST.  I think I'd still rather take an AT-DP.  Like the upgrade card. 

Overall, well done.  Looking forward to testing some of it out.

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Posted (edited)

Okay.  With apologies: let's try a bit more constructive feedback.  (Or at least, add to my response which kind of amounts to "Hey cool, you missed a spot!", so, yeah, sorry about that. ; )

Again, still no playtesting, but first impressions:

--I'm pleased with the quantity of fixes.  I wasn't expecting so many, but they seem for the most part relatively easy to track.  It does feel rather like a new Wave of toys to play with, so yay!  Most of the fixes look pretty good as well.

--Boba Fett looks neat.  I'm concerned he will remain underpowered, but eh if so he can be tweaked a bit in Season 3, and better to go a titch low than too high.  And good job making him feel different than Scum's other queen piece!

--I like the cost reductions on RGC and eRoyal Guards.  eGuards are probably still going to hit like wet noodles though, even with Pierce 1; 9 points for two weak-hitting stunners is a bit high.  Maybe a reroll on attacks?  RGC could use a reroll as well, or perhaps Reach.  Minor quibbles though; I'll almost certainly try these out a few times, see how they play, I've always loved these guys and hated that they were unplayable.

--Jyn/Fenn/Gaarkhan: These are all interesting, although I'm mildly concerned about so much Strain-cost abilities showing up.  And a minor detail, but for consistency's sake these cards (and Diala's) should be grey, not red; Skirmish deployment cards are grey for all Campaign Heroes.

--Chewbacca was a surprise!  I'm not opposed to it, I just didn't realize he was considered weak enough to need a fix like that.

--Vehicles, yay!  I like the Skirmish Upgrade as well.

Overall, well pleased, and rather eager to give these fixes a try and see how things shake out.

Edited by IndyPendant

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So I am going to start testing some of the IACP products with my group, however we are a little confused on what rules the IACP has changed for the game.  If someone could clear this up for me that would be great.

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1 hour ago, NukeADuke said:

So I am going to start testing some of the IACP products with my group, however we are a little confused on what rules the IACP has changed for the game.  If someone could clear this up for me that would be great.

There's a single PDF file that has all of the current changes:

http://ia-continuityproject.com/2019/04/16/official-changes-document-pdf/

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My friends and I played a skirmish game with the IACP rules and we couldn't figure out how the new stormtrooper rule works with reinforcements.  if I reinforce the first figure in my group, is the next kill now worth 1 VP or 3 VP?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, NukeADuke said:

My friends and I played a skirmish game with the IACP rules and we couldn't figure out how the new stormtrooper rule works with reinforcements.  if I reinforce the first figure in my group, is the next kill now worth 1 VP or 3 VP?

The way we are ruling it: When you play Reinforcements, you are replacing a defeated figure. That new figure cannot be the "first" figure defeated from that group.

So the first defeated Stormtrooper of that group is worth 1 VP, and every other Stormtrooper of that group is worth 3 VP, including figures that were added back to that group using Reinforcements.

Edited by cnemmick

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I don't have a huge amount of time to analyze this fully, though I will work on doing just that, but just as a way to move the conversation forward; I don't like this version of Boba Fett.  There are some things I like, but other things I don't.  I like the new dice pool. As Jaric256 said, it gives you some flexibility in his play style.  I don't like Custom Loadout.  It is too much like Battle Discipline, and lacking in elegance.  The fact that you can choose your third dice, means you are attacking differently.  The use of red die could just as easily represent his use of a small explosive rocket.  I say cut Custom Loadout and just grant him Flamethrower, exactly like Captain Terro's.  No need to church it up. Being that he looses his ability to recover in Battle Discipline, possibly, make a second ability that costs 1 action, which is Recover 2.  Then I would reduce his cost to 10 and I would say that about puts him in line with the current meta.  The addition of vehicle is spot on, given Jet troopers and Sabine.  Additionally I would change Mandalorian Tactics to reflect his rocket-pack missile.  Something with a big, splashy kaboom, that cost 3 points.  I don't like Hunter Instincts at all.

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Quote

Steering Committee heard your feedback that most melee figures are particularly difficult to use successfully.

Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.  Seriously, this is an issue in every tabletop game I've every played, and the melee characters are always made OP to compensate.  I understand Force Users have a magic sword, and that's great, but as Revenge of the Sith showed, they are still vulnerable to a good old fashioned focus fire.  Maybe give them a little more health, or a block, in order to simulate their ability to avoid taking fatal damage longer, but honestly, melee weapons in a space aged warfare game strains credulity to begin with.  

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39 minutes ago, Rikalonius said:

I don't like Custom Loadout.  It is too much like Battle Discipline, and lacking in elegance.  The fact that you can choose your third dice, means you are attacking differently.  The use of red die could just as easily represent his use of a small explosive rocket.  I say cut Custom Loadout and just grant him Flamethrower, exactly like Captain Terro's.  

I haven't tested it yet but like the mechanic.  It gives Fett a secondary way to do damage as a queen piece should.  It also adds to his survivability and positioning ability because you can attack, do the bonus ability and still have 3 movement points to get in/out of position.  Or, 9 movement points and the bonus ability.

I think that flexibility is going to make him fun to play and will probably be the first list I play after we finish the campaign we started.

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Looks good.  Excited to test some of it.  Feels maybe like too many changes too quickly...  First season only had one changed deployment card (Diala) (apart from changing costs) and this season has quite a few.  I'm not against that, I just hope it's not too much too fast.  Anyway, very fun.

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On 8/2/2019 at 1:29 AM, Rikalonius said:

Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.  Seriously, this is an issue in every tabletop game I've every played, and the melee characters are always made OP to compensate.  I understand Force Users have a magic sword, and that's great, but as Revenge of the Sith showed, they are still vulnerable to a good old fashioned focus fire.  Maybe give them a little more health, or a block, in order to simulate their ability to avoid taking fatal damage longer, but honestly, melee weapons in a space aged warfare game strains credulity to begin with.  

Trouble is, games where ranged units sit still in cover taking potshots at other ranged units sitting still in cover, tend to be pretty boring, or at least are at risk of that.

Melee units aren't supposed to be realistic. They introduce dynamism and mobility into a game where it might otherwise be lacking entirely. And, because it will be harder to get into melee than shoot from cover, they need to do higher damage to make the payoff worth the risk. That's not "OP", that's a necessary trade-off. We play games, not simulations.

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32 minutes ago, Bitterman said:

Trouble is, games where ranged units sit still in cover taking potshots at other ranged units sitting still in cover, tend to be pretty boring, or at least are at risk of that.

Melee units aren't supposed to be realistic. They introduce dynamism and mobility into a game where it might otherwise be lacking entirely. And, because it will be harder to get into melee than shoot from cover, they need to do higher damage to make the payoff worth the risk. That's not "OP", that's a necessary trade-off. We play games, not simulations.

We've agreed a lot in the past, but I cannot agree with you on this.  The only reason melee exits is thematic, in the case of Imperial Assault, and the fact that there are objectives, means you aren't going to have a game where the two belligerents to shoot at each other across the map.  I'm not saying ban melee or anything, but I would go with high(er) Health to compensate, not more damage.  

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I think one of the problems is, that rules-wise, there is no difference between ranged and melee attacks. If you couldn't make ranged attacks adjacent, then you could use melee figures to push back opponents shooters etc. With no rules difference, range will always be better than melee by default - and the only way to change that, is to make melee much tougher and hard-hitting than their ranged counterpart.

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16 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

The only reason melee exits is thematic, in the case of Imperial Assault...

I think you're missing the trick here. How come it also happens to be thematic in other sci-fi properties, like 40K? You even say yourself it's a problem in every tabletop game you play. Have you never wondered why they all make the same obvious "mistake"? Is it because all those games completely independently just happened to decide to make melee part of their theme for totally unrelated reasons to gameplay? Or was melee made part of their theme because it would enable them to include it in the games and help them avoid getting bogged down in static long ranged shooting?

Even looking at Star Wars, to which Imperial Assault is beholden. By rights a universe of laser guns and starships should have no place for melee combat at all - it shouldn't be in the theme. So why is it? It's not like Star Wars was created to support a game, like 40K was! Well, how interesting would Star Wars have been if, say, the climactic face-off between Ben Kenobi and Darth Vader, at the end of the first movie, had been sniping at one another from opposite ends of a corridor instead of duelling with lightsabers? Movies benefit from dramatic melee battles, just as games do. Why does Indiana Jones keep getting in fistfights all the time? There's only one occasion where he shoots a guy instead of fighting him hand-to-hand, and (iconic though that scene was) they only did it that way because Harrison Ford was too ill to do the fight they had planned to film.

Melee helps to make games dynamic and mobile. Melee helps to make movies (and stories generally) dramatic and character-driven. It doesn't matter that since at least the early twentieth century, effective guns have made melee combat obsolete as a tactic of choice (if occasionally useful as a desperate last resort, or for silent kills in special forces operations). "Real" warfare means very little for games or stories.

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ignoring dullfan squabble ...

 

absolutely love the fix to Boba Fett.  That's a heckuva word salad, but it really marries the fantastic ideas the community has had for this character into a single concept.  Also really ramps up the utility of the guy.  :D

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Don't forget to get your thoughts submitted to our Season 2 Announcement Survey: we use the results of this survey to determine what changes should be made to our recommendations before Season 2 kicks fully into gear. Survey will be closed on Aug 11th, and we'll finalize the Season 2 changes a little later that week.

Even if you've shared your thoughts with us here and you haven't filled out a survey, take a few minutes to fill out the survey too. That way we have everybody's thoughts in one place and we can compare/contrast what you all have said now with what you say at the end of the Season. You can also take the survey again in case you've changed your mind about some things; just use the same email address you used before.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd6EiNa3pA4oMqaqtAukzCQ9k5d_CxDt2j18vZZJUBPVvS-Kg/viewform?usp=sf_link

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