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CMDR Kastor

Viability of the generic Nebulon

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

The experiences and advise of high level competitive gamers has little bearing on a front room casual gamer.

Lets not start an argument. 

I'm a wargamer of many games. I play at high levels and casual ones, Armada has problems at both ends of the spectrum (as does every wargame), and high level advice on casual games shines useful light on both ends (albeit not always in the intended way).

Edited by CMDR Kastor

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30 minutes ago, CMDR Kastor said:

I'm a wargamer of many games. I play at high levels and casual ones, Armada has problems at both ends of the spectrum (as does every wargame), and high level advice on casual games shines useful light on both ends (albeit not always in the intended way).

Can you run stuff 'naked' in casual play and have fun? Yes. Will it be as effective as throwing a couple points of upgrade on that same ship? Not really. I feel like you can go with 5-8 points on a Neb and it is fine. They are pretty cheap. Wish Arquitens were cheaper. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Can you run stuff 'naked' in casual play and have fun? Yes. Will it be as effective as throwing a couple points of upgrade on that same ship? Not really. I feel like you can go with 5-8 points on a Neb and it is fine. They are pretty cheap. Wish Arquitens were cheaper. 

Ohhh. There's a interesting one, give me insight on that.

When i look at my Arquitens compared to a Nebulon, they both seem pretty on par with each other (comparing the cheapest versions). You pay three points more, with the main benefit of being able to keep your distance better thanks to the 3 red being a broadside and having a more balanced shield load out. I'd be hard pressed to say the Arquitens is overpriced without saying the same for the Nebulon.

But please tell me more! (not sarcastic, I want to know)

edit: Proposition: Ackbar 6xArquitens is the ultimate inter-faction crack-build

Edited by CMDR Kastor

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7 minutes ago, CMDR Kastor said:

Ohhh. There's a interesting one, give me insight on that.

When i look at my Arquitens compared to a Nebulon, they both seem pretty on par with each other (comparing the cheapest versions). You pay three points more, with the main benefit of being able to keep your distance better thanks to the 3 red being a broadside and having a more balanced shield load out. I'd be hard pressed to say the Arquitens is overpriced without saying the same for the Nebulon.

But please tell me more! (not sarcastic, I want to know)

edit: Proposition: Ackbar 6xArquitens is the ultimate inter-faction crack-build

The double Braces make the Nebulons surprisingly beefy (especially if you can keep em nose forward) making them tougher for ships to destroy compared to the Arquitens handles taking smaller attacks easier. Nebulons are pretty Maneuverable compared to the selfie stick Arquitens chart. Also red dice in general are fickle. I would kill for a title that makes them shoot ships better. It could encourage taking a single Arquitens for a nice flanker without Vader. 

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The Arquitens and the Neb-B are in the same class - similar hit points, speed, command values and weapons fit (albeit broadside vs chasers). There are a few key differences though.

In terms of defence tokens both have an evade, but the Neb-B's double brace will reduce total damage, while the Arquitens only redistributes it - however it also has one more shield, and can make full use of them with redirect, while Neb-Bs often die with shields left.

One clear advantage goes to the Neb-B and its Nav chart. The Arquitens is very awkward to move, and has real problems getting to the right place without a nav command. Early nav clicks result in a larger end displacement - lack of these make the Arquitens very predictable without a nav command or Jerjerrod.

Finally there are the titles - Yavaris is so useful it tends to squeeze out other Neb-B uses, while the Arquitens doesn't have anything similar.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

The double Braces make the Nebulons surprisingly beefy (especially if you can keep em nose forward) making them tougher for ships to destroy compared to the Arquitens handles taking smaller attacks easier. Nebulons are pretty Maneuverable compared to the selfie stick Arquitens chart. Also red dice in general are fickle. I would kill for a title that makes them shoot ships better. It could encourage taking a single Arquitens for a nice flanker without Vader. 

Oh... I see what you mean. I did also note that the Arq doesn't have any offensive title options, seems like a bit of a gap, though I have my prestated reservations about using titles to prop up a ship.

Edited by CMDR Kastor

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1 minute ago, CMDR Kastor said:

Oh... I see what you mean. I did also note that the Arq doesn't have any offensive title options, seems like a bit of a gap, though I have my prestated reservations about using titles to prop up a ship.

Also I find the 5 point upgrade to the command cruiser to be lacking. The only benefit I see is the Support Team slot which imo should be on both variants. It would mean you could bring along some interesting upgrades without the 5 point bump in price. 

A support Nebulon with a 5 point Turbolaser upgrade is just two points more than a Light cruiser. And it can take a support team too like the new Auxiliary Shield Techs. 

nebulon-b-support-refit.png swm22-arquitens-class-light-cruiser.png

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3 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

A support Nebulon with a 5 point Turbolaser upgrade is just two points more than a Light cruiser. And it can take a support team too like the new Auxiliary Shield Techs.

Or more importantly for the Selfistick Arquitens (that made me laugh so hard BTW), nav team.
Yeah okay. You've got me convinced that the Arquitens is in an, at least slightly, worse position balance wise. I guess their light cruiser class as a whole is lackluster (outside of titled nebs).

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, CMDR Kastor said:

Or more importantly for the Selfistick Arquitens (that made me laugh so hard BTW), nav team.
Yeah okay. You've got me convinced that the Arquitens is in an, at least slightly, worse position balance wise. I guess their light cruiser class as a whole is lackluster (outside of titled nebs).

Gonna provide a counterpoint to the Arquitens comparison in general (it’s a useful point in some ways, though:) unlike the Neb, the Imperials have access to 2 dedicated fixer commanders for the Arq, Vader and Jerjerrod.  Vader enables Slaved Turrets for 4-5 rerollable reds, while Jerry fixes their nav chart.  That nav chart and battery are built from the ground up to flank at range anyway (you may notice in a perfect world the Arquitens naturally draws a “question mark” shape around its target.)  The Neb, on the other hand, needs to constantly keep those vulnerable sides out of arc, even as it sacrifices its range advantage against ships like the Gladiator.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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The Arquitens has a better firing arc for its best attack arc, in addition, a broadsider has an easier time staying at long range compared to a front arc ship.

Personally the Arquitens feels fine as long as you make sure something other than a flotilla or Quasar is closer to the enemy, as all imperial ships are pretty dangerous up close, Imps have almost nothing that is pure red dice unlike Rebels.

Since the neb's best firing arc is so small, and the front, its very likely the enemy will get a side arc shot eventually as you cannot prevent yourself from closing with the enemy.

This is the main reason why I would only run 1 neb if I decided to run one, if you only have 1 Neb you can have it slow roll in from behind your other forces and the enemy has to choose between attacking ships in blue dice or black dice range, or continue focusing on the Neb.(it gets even better if you are running torpedo boats like mc-30's, torpedo hammerheads, or the ordinance mc-75, as their potential damage cannot be ignored.)

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21 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

The Arquitens has a better firing arc for its best attack arc, in addition, a broadsider has an easier time staying at long range compared to a front arc ship.

Personally the Arquitens feels fine as long as you make sure something other than a flotilla or Quasar is closer to the enemy, as all imperial ships are pretty dangerous up close, Imps have almost nothing that is pure red dice unlike Rebels.

Since the neb's best firing arc is so small, and the front, its very likely the enemy will get a side arc shot eventually as you cannot prevent yourself from closing with the enemy.

This is the main reason why I would only run 1 neb if I decided to run one, if you only have 1 Neb you can have it slow roll in from behind your other forces and the enemy has to choose between attacking ships in blue dice or black dice range, or continue focusing on the Neb.(it gets even better if you are running torpedo boats like mc-30's, torpedo hammerheads, or the ordinance mc-75, as their potential damage cannot be ignored.)

A slow-rolling Neb as finisher to snipe wounded ships or threaten a flank is good. I’ve considered using a pair to come in at a different angle from the rest of my fleet but haven’t had the chance to try it.

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22 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

The Arquitens has a better firing arc for its best attack arc, in addition, a broadsider has an easier time staying at long range compared to a front arc ship.

Personally the Arquitens feels fine as long as you make sure something other than a flotilla or Quasar is closer to the enemy, as all imperial ships are pretty dangerous up close, Imps have almost nothing that is pure red dice unlike Rebels.

 

 

The Kittens can literally be front-facing a target and have a legal shot out of it's side arc at long range that's how good her arcs are. I'm always impressed and sad when this happens against me. 

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