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Hiemfire

@FFG Please lock this thread.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Again, don't go anywhere in public in the USA, then.  I'm sorry having a plan just-in-case frightens you so.

Well, I'm stuck here, as well as stuck with the notion that your "safe because gun" trumps my "unsafe because gun." And my backup plan is called Law Enforcement. 

To keep this discussion on track with FFG's notion of tournament policies, I'll point out that XWM is a global community, and most of the rest of the world has found that an armed citizenry is unnecessary for public safety.   If FFG wants to assure international guests that they are not coming to a secret gun convention while attending a domestic FFG event, a no weapons policy is something they have every right to enforce.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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7 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

And my backup plan is called Law Enforcement. 

Always a good idea.  Though, it can't hurt to have a backup plan in case deescalation fails and police can't arrive in time to prevent an incident.

10 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

If FFG wants to assure international guests that they are not coming to a secret gun convention while attending a domestic FFG event, a no weapons policy is something they have every right to enforce.

If FFG wants to say everyone who attends their events is required to wear solid-color shirts (because stripes remind people of old-timey convicts, which makes them feel unsafe), they've every right to do so.  I just don't see why such a decision can't be left up to the store owner.

And I guess we just won't tell our international guests that when they go to other stores, restaurants, or hotels, they're probably passing by dozens of concealed-carriers without even realizing it.  (The point being if they don't feel safe without that rule, they're unlikely to even come to America in the first place.)

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3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 Either you're trolling or you really are that dense. They had brought up an issue they'd been having (which is in the post I linked previously, I'll do so again at the end of this post, click on the top portion of the link to go to the actual post and not just the start of the thread) and the release of the Floor Rules now gives them a line of action they can take since the judges now have fairly solid instructions of what to do in the circumstances they outlined. The section I had in quotation marks back on the first page of this thread is a direct quote of Slow Play portion of the Floor Rules.

Click the "replied to" part to go to the post, and read the second section.

 

Would that be the reply to @Quack Shot I assume. Sorry but the point that you agree with so intently isn't as obvious to others as you might think.

So over half of the players in tournaments are intentionally or unintentionally exploiting the system. That sounds like a failure on the mechanics and the development team part, not on organize play and I am not sure how these new rules will fix that problem if that is the case without backfiring so horribly wrong.

 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I just don't see why such a decision can't be left up to the store owner.

Because at an FFG-sanctioned event, their legal *** is on the line as well.

This happened at a video gaming conference.  Just about every body is getting sued except the gun manufacturers, because you can't. 

Quote

(The point being if they don't feel safe without that rule, they're unlikely to even come to America in the first place.)

And some don't.  Australia has issued a travel advisory against the US for all of the above.

The fact that people are afraid to come here doesn't make me too proud.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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50 minutes ago, Dr Moneypants said:

I swore that I wasn't going to get involved in this but...

Is a 'paranoia' the collective noun for a group of conceal/carry holders? Like a pod of whales or a parliament of rooks? If it isn't can we make it one? 

Look, I get it, if you don't have a lot of experience with firearms as a normal part of your life, it certainly seems strange.

But right now you're ragging on a whole lot of people, some good friends and family members of mine, that are good, honest, smart, and giving, who also happen to own and sometimes carry firearms.

It's destructive, intellectually dishonest, and does nothing but create a divide where there doesn't need to be one.

There are of course disrespectful and irresponsible members of any arbitrary category of people you can create, and this is no exception, but at the core of your motivation here is antagonizing those who are different than you for no reason beyond that they are different.  This is unfortunately to a large extent human nature as our history attests, but we all have a choice to better.

And right now I'm encouraging you to be better; if you're going to jump into a subject, do so with the goal of dialogue, not just to take a self-satisfying cheap shot at a group you feel is "safe" to target.

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12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Because at an FFG-sanctioned event, their legal *** is on the line as well.

This happened at a video gaming conference.  Just about every body is getting sued except the gun manufacturers, because you can't. 

Hm...well, I suppose if it's for legal protection, I can at least understand the reasoning, even if it's regrettable that people would sue a company for something that's not the company's fault.

(Though, as far as actual safety for the participants is concerned, if you're talking about the Jacksonville incident, I don't see how a rule like this would have made any difference.)

19 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Australia has issued a travel advisory against the US for all of the above.

The fact that people are afraid to come here doesn't make me too proud.

Citation, please?  If the source I found is correct, Australia's travel advisory level for the US is "exercise normal safety precautions", just as the US State Department's is for travelers to Australia.  That's the standard advisory for any country that's not elevated to something higher.

Australian Government Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade - Destination: USA

US State Department - Destination:  Australia

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51 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

Look, I get it, if you don't have a lot of experience with firearms as a normal part of your life, it certainly seems strange.

But right now you're ragging on a whole lot of people, some good friends and family members of mine, that are good, honest, smart, and giving, who also happen to own and sometimes carry firearms.

It's destructive, intellectually dishonest, and does nothing but create a divide where there doesn't need to be one.

There are of course disrespectful and irresponsible members of any arbitrary category of people you can create, and this is no exception, but at the core of your motivation here is antagonizing those who are different than you for no reason beyond that they are different.  This is unfortunately to a large extent human nature as our history attests, but we all have a choice to better.

And right now I'm encouraging you to be better; if you're going to jump into a subject, do so with the goal of dialogue, not just to take a self-satisfying cheap shot at a group you feel is "safe" to target.

I live in the south. I have plenty of experience with guns. I just think it's silly when people think it's Tombstone. Get off your high horse.

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3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

The need to carry is beget from either the fear of being unprotected or the power trip of establishing your rights.

As my brother rightly puts it, you have no business carrying a gun if you are not willing to hurt another human being.

None of that is something I want in the same room with me.

Your brother is wrong and that's such a completely moronic simplistic stance. What kind of moralistic high horse bs is that garbage? So you would never be willing to harm a human being? Get real. Such a bad faith arguement. If that's the philosophy you and your brother subscribe to then you are both by definition sheep. 

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17 minutes ago, BlueAce said:

Your brother is wrong and that's such a completely moronic simplistic stance. What kind of moralistic high horse bs is that garbage? So you would never be willing to harm a human being? Get real. Such a bad faith arguement. If that's the philosophy you and your brother subscribe to then you are both by definition sheep. 

Not actually going to discuss morals with a guy who considers scalping an acceptable form of capitalism. 

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3 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Citation, please?  If the source I found is correct, Australia's travel advisory level for the US is "exercise normal safety precautions", just as the US State Department's is for travelers to Australia.  That's the standard advisory for any country that's not elevated to something higher.

Australian Government Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade - Destination: USA

US State Department - Destination:  Australia

You provided the citation. It’s right there on the first page of the smartraveler site:

“The United States has more violent crime than Australia, although it rarely involves tourists. Shootings, including mass shootings, can occur in public places. See Safety and security”

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2 minutes ago, astronautcowboy said:

You provided the citation. It’s right there on the first page of the smartraveler site:

“The United States has more violent crime than Australia, although it rarely involves tourists. Shootings, including mass shootings, can occur in public places. See Safety and security”

Yeah, and you can tell from the brief mention and low overall concern that they're really worried about their citizens traveling here.

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6 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Yeah, and you can tell from the brief mention and low overall concern that they're really worried about their citizens traveling here.

Well, the country rating is 1, yeah, but their State Department-equivalent feels the issue is significant enough to put a blurb about gun violence on the U.S. summary page. There’s a longer write up in the Crime section of the Safety and Security page. The summary is where they highlight top risks. So, Australia considers gun violence one of our top risks. Don’t shoot the messenger; you asked for the source and I pointed it out.

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13 minutes ago, astronautcowboy said:

Well, the country rating is 1, yeah, but their State Department-equivalent feels the issue is significant enough to put a blurb about gun violence on the U.S. summary page. There’s a longer write up in the Crime section of the Safety and Security page. The summary is where they highlight top risks. So, Australia considers gun violence one of our top risks. Don’t shoot the messenger; you asked for the source and I pointed it out.

Did you read the Safety and Security page?  They seem to lead with Terrorism, then mention Crime in general, with just a single sentence mentioning gun crime ("Gun crime is possible throughout the US.")  Something worth pointing out, sure, but hardly sounds like a "top risk" that's discouraging people from visiting (which is what Darth was making it sound like, hence the request for a citation).

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2 hours ago, Dr Moneypants said:

I live in the south. I have plenty of experience with guns. I just think it's silly when people think it's Tombstone. Get off your high horse.

If "stop negatively stereotyping people different than you" looks like a high horse to you then you may want to reevaluate the height of your horse

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If FFG actually cared about limiting items that might lead to altercations during their tournaments, they would also ban the sale of alcohol during their events.  But they haven't.  Gee, I wonder why.

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That anyone would feel the need to bring a firearm to an X-Wing tournament is truly surreal to me. As a TO, I wouldn't expect a ban to even be necessary to prevent this, but I would cheerfully enforce one if need be.

A weapon may make you feel safer, but it makes everyone else feel less so, which isn't something I would want in any of my events.

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10 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Did you read the Safety and Security page?  They seem to lead with Terrorism, then mention Crime in general, with just a single sentence mentioning gun crime ("Gun crime is possible throughout the US.")  Something worth pointing out, sure, but hardly sounds like a "top risk" that's discouraging people from visiting (which is what Darth was making it sound like, hence the request for a citation).

My job is to read these safety and security pages. The media may have overblown the “advisory” part, but regardless, the Australian government did feel addressing gun violence in the U.S. in the travel advice for their citizens was warranted. The level of detail seen there is comparable to what most countries put out. Government travel advice is generally as brief as it can be while still getting the point across. Longer write ups usually come from third party security and/or intelligence vendors.

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