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AngryAlbatross

Make Munitions Failsafe Great Again

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To those who are unaware (or perhaps don't use ordinance).  Munitions Failsafe is a card that lets you cancel all dice when you shoot a missile or torpedo.  Currently there's not much use to it because it specifically happens immediately after Rolling Attack Dice but before the Modify Attack Dice step (according to rules consensus on forums).  Maybe it would be good on something with a Proton Rocket, but otherwise its probably better to just spend that TL or Focus you had on modifying your dice.
(Card image below for the uninformed)
latest?cb=20181213185738

I humbly petition FFG to arbitrarily rule that this card's action takes place during the Modify Attack Dice step.  This would make this card actually usable as one could do the following!

1. Spend a TL to reroll and see if you get enough hits on a weapon, then when you blank out on the reroll, recover your charge 
2. Use Thane's ability on a fancy ion torp, then recover the charge
3. Shoot a cluster Missile at someone, then shoot the bonus attack for funzies and if you blank out, recover the charge

Plus numerous other uses!  Please hear my cry ffg! Make this card actually useful!

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2 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Currently there's not much use to it because it specifically happens immediately after Rolling Attack Dice but before the Modify Attack Dice step (according to rules consensus on forums)

🤨 That is what the card says it does.

 

3 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Shoot a cluster Missile at someone, then shoot the bonus attack for funzies and if you blank out, recover the charge

If you mean the charge spent to perform the bonus attack (only the Lock requirement is ignored, a charge is still spent as the cost of the bonus attack, as has been laid out as the example in the Bonus Attacks portion of the Rules Reference since 2.0 began. Currently Pg. 6), you can already do this. The bonus attack from Cluster Missiles 1: is still a missile and 2: follows all the other steps for performing a non-bonus attack.

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9 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

To those who are unaware (or perhaps don't use ordinance).  Munitions Failsafe is a card that lets you cancel all dice when you shoot a missile or torpedo.  Currently there's not much use to it because it specifically happens immediately after Rolling Attack Dice but before the Modify Attack Dice step (according to rules consensus on forums).  Maybe it would be good on something with a Proton Rocket, but otherwise its probably better to just spend that TL or Focus you had on modifying your dice.
(Card image below for the uninformed)
latest?cb=20181213185738

3. Shoot a cluster Missile at someone, then shoot the bonus attack for funzies and if you blank out, recover the charge
 

Can't you already do this? And I mean, you rolled the die already, you pretty much know if it has good odds or not of working as expected. Don't spend the TL as the earliest time possible, and just wait for a double modded attack next turn, and if by chance you get successful attack roll keep it and deal some damage.

Really don't know why you would expect more from an already very solid card for 1 point.

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At one point, it's a good deal as it is; you can fire off a missile or torpedo safe in the knowledge that if your roll is too poor, you can scrub it and get the charge back. Changing the timing would only confuse matters, especially if results were spent (by Thane's ability, for instance)

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, honestly it's pretty good on ESC. That one charge really matters and you can tell right off the bat if it's going to cut it for you or not. It does up the cost of your expendible drone by a point but it can be worth it if you have the room.

Same price point as Crack Shot and Struts for a pretty similar value. I'd take it on other missile carriers if the missiles were affordable in the first place.

I'd honestly add APTs to that list too, especially on Rhymer who really cares about it. Anything with just one or two charges is asking for an irrecoverable blankout.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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9 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Same price point as Crack Shot and Struts for a pretty similar value. I'd take it on other missile carriers if the missiles were affordable in the first place.

Exactly. MunFailsafe will always be exactly as good as the munition you're using. The failsafe is amazing, it's the missile that sucks. 1 point to keep an important charge when you whiff is the perfect value for anti feel bad moment!

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I've been using it on Luke with Instinctive Aim and Proton Torpedoes.  It allows him to have a go at firing the torps when he hasn't got a lock (or it's on the wrong ship), safe in the knowledge I can scrub the attack and save my remaining force charge if I get a duff roll.  So far I haven't needed to do that, but it's nice to have the insurance for just 1pt when I wasn't going to use that point or slot for anything else.  In a way, he gets the option of consistently rolling 4 attack die until I decide to keep the roll.

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13 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Again!?

When the **** was it ever even halfway decent? 1st Ed Blount abuse?

There was the fringe case of a Vaksai Kihraxz, as it did cost 0 pts for them! But mostly as insurance and when expecting to go against high defense targets. The Vaksai also paid 0 pts for Guidance chips (giving a crit) and only 1 for Glitterstim, making MFS a questionable case of diminishing returns. However, it was still 0 points, and if you anyway had 1 if the mods unoccupied. If you were going for Scavenger crane instead of Glitterstim, and blanked out (giving you only 1 crit from the Guidance chimps), then MFS for 0 made quite sense!

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I don't really like Munition Fail Safe because you set yourself in the negative spirit that you need your ordonance to roll bad to make value out of it. If you roll good (like you are supposed to do), it is useless.

Nevertheless I find it usable on single modded ESC Vulture which often struggle to reload. Or it can make fun combos on TIE/SF with cluster and hotshot gunner.

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6 hours ago, Ximatique said:

I find it usable on single modded ESC Vulture which often struggle to reload. Or it can make fun combos on TIE/SF with cluster and hotshot gunner.

These two are the perfect place for Munitions Failsafe.

MF+Cluster missiles is like chocolate+peanut butter. In an increasingly Swarm heavy Meta, Cluster missiles are worth investing in. MF helps protect your investment.

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9 hours ago, Managarmr said:

There was the fringe case of a Vaksai Kihraxz, as it did cost 0 pts for them! But mostly as insurance and when expecting to go against high defense targets. The Vaksai also paid 0 pts for Guidance chips (giving a crit) and only 1 for Glitterstim, making MFS a questionable case of diminishing returns. However, it was still 0 points, and if you anyway had 1 if the mods unoccupied. If you were going for Scavenger crane instead of Glitterstim, and blanked out (giving you only 1 crit from the Guidance chimps), then MFS for 0 made quite sense!

There was a very niche build for Nera that involved giving her Deadeye, Accuracy Corrector, Flechette Torpedoes and Munitions Failsafe. Fire the torpedo with Deadeye, cancel the hits with AC, and then automatically reload the torpedo. If the target had 4 hull or less, it was a repeatable guaranteed stress turret. It was also 1/3rd of your list.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Ximatique said:

I don't really like Munition Fail Safe because you set yourself in the negative spirit that you need your ordonance to roll bad to make value out of it. If you roll good (like you are supposed to do), it is useless.

One might say the same of Heroic. I think of it more as a “protect your investment” than “change your playstyle” type of upgrade.

 I mean, if you know the secret to rolling good, either share it or go win Worlds? Most of us are stuck with dice that are random and do unexpected things at the worst times.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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So I may have found a really funny build with it, using Torani, R5-tk, clusters and munitions.  I've been messing around on her wingmates, but in general I've been messing with a combination of Capt Seevor, A Zealot recruit, 4-LOM, Old T, or Palob, usually running Seevor the recruit/old T and 4-LOM/Palob.  The basic gist of it is I TL whoever I choose to be the blocker, or whoever I want running in at R1.  Then I line up the bullseye on Torani on the blocked ship/ or someone within range 1 of my TL'd friend, and fire the clusters into myself, munition it to go away, but then her ability kicks, and then I fire the 2nd into the enemy ship, after either stripping their green token, or if it's Palob/Old T as the blocker, doing a damage, to do a 3 dice attack and punch a 2nd damage through.  

In one game I actually was able to line up a r3 bullseye shot on an enemy, and then used the cluster to shoot two of my own ships to punch 2 damage through on that ship across the way.

 

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2 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

One might say the same of Heroic. I think of it more as a “protect your investment” than “change your playstyle” type of upgrade.

 I mean, if you know the secret to rolling good, either share it or go win Worlds? Most of us are stuck with dice that are random and do unexpected things at the worst times.

Stack the dice, perfectly aligning the top side of each. Ensure critical results (or evades) are facing up. Pick them up, holding the bottom dice between your thumb and pinky finger. With a wrist flick motion up and out, separate the dice in a spray pattern onto the board. Finish with your middle finger pointed at the ship you're attacking, or that is attacking you.

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I still think its a wasted card as it stands currently.  Sure the cluster missile interaction already is there, but most of the time it is far better to chance the reroll in my humble opinion.  On vultures they are so cheap already I don't know if I would chose this over struts.

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It combos with ESC, but that's about it - and that's because ESC is cheap and very low charge, but hard to reload, and frequently doesn't have rerolls to deal with blanks, AND the tokens used to fire it can also be used by other members of the swarm (and often retained with Kraken), so you just failsafe below average rolls and save the charge and tokens for later.  For everything else, it's usually better to keep a bad roll and use the mods you have to make it better, since you probably won't have a way to retain them, will have a way to deal with blanks, and will have multiple charges.

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2 hours ago, AngryAlbatross said:

most of the time it is far better to chance the reroll in my humble opinion.

Forgive me, but what reroll? The bonus shot is against a target that's not locked and tends to be quite variance-prone. With MF, you don't have to worry about it because if you get a bad roll, there's nothing lost.

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5 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Forgive me, but what reroll? The bonus shot is against a target that's not locked and tends to be quite variance-prone. With MF, you don't have to worry about it because if you get a bad roll, there's nothing lost.

I was talking about in general use, not in the Cluster Missiles case.  Forgive me for not being clear :)

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