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6 hours ago, MrTInce said:

Morning all,

 

In the star wars media we see various jedi using telepathy to speak with one another. Is there a force power linked to this or have they not done one?

Closest is sense. But not really presently

Edited by Daeglan

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Right now, we've got Sense with picking up a person's surface thoughts, and that's about it.

A while back, i wrote up a telepathy-based Force power for one of the earlier versions of my old ways of the Force fan doc, which mostly covered having mental communications.  But at the time (as Episode 8 wasn't even a rumor), it was based more on the brief scene in ESB where Luke reaches out to Leia (which could be handwaved as being possible due to their familial connection).  And with Episode 8, the communication between Rey and Kylo is due more to their Force bond than any individual ability on their part.

In terms of a purely narrative thing, I guess you could have two Force users with Sense and the control upgrade to read surface thoughts and say that they're communicating telepathically as opposed to mechanically just reading the other's thoughts.

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1 hour ago, bsmith23 said:

I was thinking perhaps a loose interpretation of the Battle Meditation power.

I definitely think most of telepathy is best covered with Battle Meditation, but a more narrative power is definitely missing. In a pinch you could simply ask the player to flip a destiny point to allow them to briefly speak with someone else via the Force.

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I think the key issue is whether this is something that is a fundamental part of a PC's build/concept, or just a one-off use like in Empire Strikes Back.   If the PC asking to do Telepathy, has it as an integral part of their concept, and will likely be using the power as often as the Guardian would be using Enhance, or Move, then it should have a full tree build I think.      If it's a one-off thing, I'd probably just stick with something like "Flip a DP and you can say one sentence to the target" and keep going.  No need to complicate the rules with a clunky system for something that might only be used once or twice in the whole campaign.   But something that might be used multiple times each session?   Yeah that should be fleshed out to some degree, with Control/Magnitude/Strength upgrades, etc.

As a note, if you did flesh it out, I would suggest including the Planetary scale upgrade at the bottom, given the distances that we see this thing used at, in both the OT and NT.  All examples of it's use are most definitely Planetary scale and beyond.   I do think starting out with it Personal scale is fun for a story group, and a campaign, allowing for the further increase of distance.   But per canon examples, it seems to be Planetary scale right from the first use of it, up through the last.  I'd probably add some "offensive" uses of the power to some degree, if it's going to be the signature power for a PC.  A handful of upgrades that let you do things like inflict strain on a foe, or inflict dice penalties if they fail a check to figure out why they are hearing voices in their heads.    Might step on the toes of Misdirection a bit, never really read up on that, but I got the impression that Misdirection tends to be actual visual illusion, not thoughts in the head.

I'd suggest watching the old X-Men movies, especially the first one (With Patrick Stewart) for examples of how Telepathy might be used on the High Power end, in a more offensive way.  Prof X is a great example of how that power, all by itself, can be used in some very impressive/terrifying ways.

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Before episode VIII, the only characters to telepathically communicate with one another over distance  (in canon) were the Skywalker family, so one could say it's partially due to their natural ability with the Force and partially because they share the same blood.

 

With episode VIII and the ForceTime™ scenes, we have characters who were not previously bonded through blood *and* the Force that are able to communicate due to Snoke being their Force-Operator™ and bridging the connection. At the end of the film, the connection seemed to still be there momentarily, before Rey hung up.

 

In every instance including ep VIII, the long distance communication is narrative. I'd roll with it being a narrative communication as well. If you want to put a mechanic to it, then as long as characters had the ability to Sense out to the range the other one is at, they'd be able to communicate. I believe the Sense power is already called out as being the one allowing you to sense disturbances of others in the Force nearby.

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29 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

Before episode VIII, the only characters to telepathically communicate with one another over distance  (in canon) were the Skywalker family, so one could say it's partially due to their natural ability with the Force and partially because they share the same blood.

You could say Ben talking to Luke via the Force in New Hope was telepathy.  He didn't manifest directly there, and was literally just a voice in his head.  And they weren't blood related.  I think the "Only the Skywalkers did it in the OT implies it's a family thing" is a bit skewed as a rationale, since they were the only Force users in the trilogy.  That doesn't mean it's only something blood relatives can do, it simply means that both sides of the "call" need to be Force sensitive.  

 

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I didn't say the OT, I said in canon. In the PT you don't see it really happen at all with other Jedi.

 

Obi-Wan at that point was more powerful than even Vader could imagine, existing outside of space and time but able to still manifest where he chooses.

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58 minutes ago, bsmith23 said:

It was also mostly seen with the most powerful characters (Luke, Leia, Vader...)

If you are referring to the OT, again, that's not a good example, since the only people with any Force ability in that trilogy, are the Skywalkers.   Aside from Vader, Luke and Leia aren't really all that powerful, in the Force Scale when compared to others with training.  Compared to muggle mooks like Han, yeah they have amazing abilities, compared to Jedi, they're at best Younglings.

  I've never been a fan of any kind of Skywalker specific abilities, because frankly none were ever described by anyone.  They just said the Force runs strong in their family, implying they can simply get more bang for their buck if you will.   I think it's far more logical, and narratively more elegant to let anyone with any Force ability, have access to any Force powers, assuming they do the study/training to actually discover/unlock that ability.   

 

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Luke calling to Leia/Leia sensing Luke is pretty clearly just a narrative skinning of Seek, not Telepathy. Luke happened to be calling out, sure, that's good cinema, but he didn't use a Power, Leia activated latent Seek.

Obi is literally one with the Force, when he whispers sweet nothings to Luke, that is not Telepathy. That is being a literal entity of the Force.

What other OT instances are there?

I'm no scholar of the PT, but can't picture when it was used there. Help?

And the NT is just a bunch of stupid crap, so... Er, uh, I mean, uh... a worthy and cohesive continuation, so...

Long story short, there is no Telepathy. No "sending" messages. You can read thoughts, and thereby "send" thoughts to ppl who you know can read them, but I see no basis in the canon that necessitates or even really warrants a Telepathy Power.

I could see a Talent for it. Or Species ability. And certainly spending a DP I'd go for on a dramatic one-off basis. But beyond that?

Nah.

Edited by emsquared

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3 hours ago, Daeglan said:

I think originally it was all about training ans not bloodlines

I don't think the actual franchise ever deviated from that either.  I think it's the cursed fanbase with their decades of speculative fiction and insane theories to make everything tie into everything, that gave rise to the idea that the Skywalkers have some kind of unique power.  Something that again, I never recall any film actually stating.   Every power I recall them using, we've seen someone else do it, aside from the telepathy thing, but again, the only trilogy to use that, only had Skywalkers in it as Force users.  PT didn't bother with it, because it was going more action and comedy heavy.  And the NT has an improved version of it, which includes one Skywalker, but also a non-Skywalker (unless of course one of the Rey theories pans out and she's related to Kylo.  Which...well, incestuous implications does have precedent in the franchise so....*shrugs*).   

So yeah, I see no reason to think it's a bloodline thing.  One because it's just never stated as such, and is simply fans tossing out theories.  And two, because it limits the options for engaging storytelling, which is why we actually play these games.  Or at least it should be. 

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54 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

I don't think the actual franchise ever deviated from that either.  I think it's the cursed fanbase with their decades of speculative fiction and insane theories to make everything tie into everything, that gave rise to the idea that the Skywalkers have some kind of unique power.  Something that again, I never recall any film actually stating.   Every power I recall them using, we've seen someone else do it, aside from the telepathy thing, but again, the only trilogy to use that, only had Skywalkers in it as Force users.  PT didn't bother with it, because it was going more action and comedy heavy.  And the NT has an improved version of it, which includes one Skywalker, but also a non-Skywalker (unless of course one of the Rey theories pans out and she's related to Kylo.  Which...well, incestuous implications does have precedent in the franchise so....*shrugs*).   

So yeah, I see no reason to think it's a bloodline thing.  One because it's just never stated as such, and is simply fans tossing out theories.  And two, because it limits the options for engaging storytelling, which is why we actually play these games.  Or at least it should be. 

It wasnt till the prequels that the bloodline mattered and i think it was the fan influence that did it.

Edited by Daeglan

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16 hours ago, Daeglan said:

It wasnt till the prequels that the bloodline mattered and i think it was the fan influence that did it.

Are you referring to the whole "Chosen One" thing?  In regards to the bloodline mattering?   That's still not an indication of some unique power only they can do.  Not saying you are a proponent of that stance, just pointing out that is somewhat secondary to the "Chosen Oneyness" of the Skywalkers.  Plus, nothing about the Telepathy trick they displayed was integral to the final resolution of the conflict in Return of the Jedi, so that can't be it either.  :D  

Bottom line though:

Who cares?  I know know, stupid question when asking Star Wars fans, because they obsess over the dumbest stuff.  But narratively, it doesn't matter.  There's no reason to assume it's a Skywalker only thing, it doesn't help stories to have it be that way, as it forces anyone who might want to use that power in their PC concept, to either rethink their idea, or be forced to be a Skywalker.  It doesn't expand on storytelling options, and only serves to limit them.  Which to me is the ultimate factor on which way the "ruling" on such a thing should go.  If it makes for more interesting/varied/compelling storytelling opportunities, it should win the debate.    Dogmatic adherence (to the point of religious worship I might add, for some) to some concept about a fictional galaxy with space wizards with laser swords, with the only purpose of being dogmatic....well who does that benefit?

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2 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

Are you referring to the whole "Chosen One" thing?  In regards to the bloodline mattering?   That's still not an indication of some unique power only they can do.  Not saying you are a proponent of that stance, just pointing out that is somewhat secondary to the "Chosen Oneyness" of the Skywalkers.  Plus, nothing about the Telepathy trick they displayed was integral to the final resolution of the conflict in Return of the Jedi, so that can't be it either.  :D  

Bottom line though:

Who cares?  I know know, stupid question when asking Star Wars fans, because they obsess over the dumbest stuff.  But narratively, it doesn't matter.  There's no reason to assume it's a Skywalker only thing, it doesn't help stories to have it be that way, as it forces anyone who might want to use that power in their PC concept, to either rethink their idea, or be forced to be a Skywalker.  It doesn't expand on storytelling options, and only serves to limit them.  Which to me is the ultimate factor on which way the "ruling" on such a thing should go.  If it makes for more interesting/varied/compelling storytelling opportunities, it should win the debate.    Dogmatic adherence (to the point of religious worship I might add, for some) to some concept about a fictional galaxy with space wizards with laser swords, with the only purpose of being dogmatic....well who does that benefit?

I am more refering to the he has more midichlorians than Yoda.  Which while i dislike the midichlorian thing itnis a thing

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27 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I am more refering to the he has more midichlorians than Yoda.  Which while i dislike the midichlorian thing itnis a thing

It's a thing that is never mentioned again in the movie franchise, and has zero actual explanatory power.   You could replace every mention of midichlorian in the scripts with "Magical fairies dressed like punk rockers", and you would have the exact same amount of information provided about what they do, how, and why.  Namely, no information at all.  :P  

So yeah....I don't really give midichlorians much weight in the narrative story, since the movies themselves never saw fit to mention them again, and they have no narrative significance at all with the actual series of events.

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54 minutes ago, KungFuFerret said:

It's a thing that is never mentioned again in the movie franchise, and has zero actual explanatory power.   You could replace every mention of midichlorian in the scripts with "Magical fairies dressed like punk rockers", and you would have the exact same amount of information provided about what they do, how, and why.  Namely, no information at all.  :P  

So yeah....I don't really give midichlorians much weight in the narrative story, since the movies themselves never saw fit to mention them again, and they have no narrative significance at all with the actual series of events.

To me it struck me as we need him to go with the party but we are too lazy to write a real reason. So we just stamped hiis forehead with PC.  It does however add to the family line being special somehow line of thinking. Also Luke beating Vader also plays into that line of thinking.

 

I much prefer the training.idea for force.

Edited by Daeglan

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39 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

To me it struck me as we need him to go with the party but we are too lazy to write a real reason. So we just stamped hiis forehead with PC. 

*snerks* Yeah, it's just that it wasn't necessary to add the "science" of midichlorians to justify that.  Just demonstrate him doing Forcey things instinctively, at a level of capability above what is normally seen for a child that young when they are first discovered.    You know, the thing they've done with every other Force character they've introduced since, where they entirely ignored midichlorians :P  

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

I much prefer the training.idea for force.

Yeah, the movie Creed (first one) did a great job of illustrating this.  From the start, they show us that Donny has a tendency for violence (implied to be a legacy of his bloodline), but also later on that he's actually pretty good at boxing (illustrated by his underground fighting in Mexico), even though he has very little training.   BUUUUUT, then he goes to the boxing gym where his father trained, and starts acting all superior to everyone.  Bragging about he's the best there is, how they can't hit him!  Even putting a car on the line in a bet.....where he summarily gets his butt whipped quickly.  Illustrating that "yeah, raw talent is good, but training is more important in the long run"

I've always seen the Skywalkers as that.   They've got a big firehose for the amount of Force they can apply at any time, because of their Magical Pixies dressed like Punk Rockers.  But they still need to actually LEARN what to do with that talent to make it more than instinctive, spur of the moment things they do sometimes.

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If anyone is still reading this thread and manages to get past all the fan-theorizing and fictive debate, it's worth noting:

There is precedent for getting the ability to use Telepathy/sending thoughts, via Talent.

Mental Bond

Just so happens this reinforces a "bond theory"for it's use, but... 

Yea. So between that fact and the overlap that would unavoidably happen in a full Telepathy Power with other Powers like Influence, Sense, and Battle Meditation, it's clear this should not be a Force Power thing.

At most a Talent.

At least a Destiny Point (between ppl with a "bond"?).

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38 minutes ago, emsquared said:

If anyone is still reading this thread and manages to get past all the fan-theorizing and fictive debate, it's worth noting:

There is precedent for getting the ability to use Telepathy/sending thoughts, via Talent.

Mental Bond

Just so happens this reinforces a "bond theory"for it's use, but... 

Yea. So between that fact and the overlap that would unavoidably happen in a full Telepathy Power with other Powers like Influence, Sense, and Battle Meditation, it's clear this should not be a Force Power thing.

At most a Talent.

At least a Destiny Point (between ppl with a "bond"?).

I kinda agree. But then the stuff Snoke did seems to be beyond talent. So i could see a talent where you can make a bond with an individual. But a power that could do much more. Kind of how sense emotions is a lesser version of influence

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The Midichlorian thing is thematic. It's about symbiosis vs being a parasite. That's reflected throughout the movie. Look at the story of the Naboo and the Gungans. Or how Jedi live and operate vs how Sith act. Not everything is - or needs to be - about incident.

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On 7/22/2019 at 7:07 AM, MrTInce said:

Morning all,

 

In the star wars media we see various jedi using telepathy to speak with one another. Is there a force power linked to this or have they not done one?

battle med

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