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The Hyenas

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17 hours ago, Vector Strike said:

Nym couldn't throw mines; Bombardment Drone can. What you need to do is to fly the Hyena in a way it'll crosspath another ship and then launch the mine with the fuse* when the enemy is REALLY close. Then you can safely go over it (a 3-straight is enough to stay outside it) and the enemy ship will go over it... KABOOM!

 

*only use the fuse (f-use!) if your ship moves BEFORE the enemy ship - otherwise, there's no need for the fuse

Yeah, that's a fun trick too.  I haven't gotten the Bombardment Drones to the table yet, but Prox with Delayed Fuses is the way I'm going to try them.

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Posted (edited)

Here's the actual entry for Cat.  Apparently not a main character -- even Wookieepedia is pretty sparse on the subject, meaning there may not be an amazing amount of info available.

Edit: BTW, on the x-wing wiki we often include a blurb about each pilot/crew and link to the wookieepedia entry.  If you're ever having trouble tracking down a character, try our wiki too.  There are still a few characters without the lore blurb but we're gradually working our way through.

Edited by Wazat

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I tried my Hyenas last night.  It didn't go well.   I played 2 games.  Both were against the same player with the same list.  It was his first time with these ships:

IG-88 A w/Crackshot

IG-88 C w/ Crackshot

Misthunter 4-LOM with FCS, IG-88 D and Shield Upgrade

My first match was Passive Sensors on a Baktoid w/ Cluster and Concussion Missiles, Butterbot and 5 x Separatists with ESC.  His flanking went too well and my guys were too split up.  I flew bad and died hard.  I think I gave up with half my ships dead and he lost 2 Shield total.  

My 2nd match was better.  I used:

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Hyena-class Droid Bomber - Techno Union Bomber - 45
    Techno Union Bomber - (26)
        Proton Torpedoes (13)
        •DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)
        Landing Struts (Closed) (1)

Hyena-class Droid Bomber - ••Baktoid Prototype - 35
    ••Baktoid Prototype - Function over Form (28)
        •Diamond-Boron Missiles (6)
        Landing Struts (Closed) (1)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Really screwed up the Probe Droid as it was my first time using it.  I SHOULD have sent it on turn 2 and everyone would've had a TL, but I waited a turn.   I only got 2 TL for the Bombers and none for the Vultures. 

My initial salvo was too spread out, but I damaged every ship.  One IG lost all shields, as did the Misthunter.  After that, he had a few key rounds where he out flew me.  I went for bumps too often and he knows my play style.   I almost killed the Misthunter.  There was one crucial round where he killed a number of my ships and my attacks couldn't get through.  I called it there as it was quite late.

Overall, I really need to practice with the Probe and getting those TL done.  Also should deploy in a corner, instead of in the middle.

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4 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I tried my Hyenas last night.  It didn't go well.   I played 2 games.  Both were against the same player with the same list.  It was his first time with these ships:

IG-88 A w/Crackshot

IG-88 C w/ Crackshot

Misthunter 4-LOM with FCS, IG-88 D and Shield Upgrade

My first match was Passive Sensors on a Baktoid w/ Cluster and Concussion Missiles, Butterbot and 5 x Separatists with ESC.  His flanking went too well and my guys were too split up.  I flew bad and died hard.  I think I gave up with half my ships dead and he lost 2 Shield total.  

My 2nd match was better.  I used:

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Hyena-class Droid Bomber - Techno Union Bomber - 45
    Techno Union Bomber - (26)
        Proton Torpedoes (13)
        •DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)
        Landing Struts (Closed) (1)

Hyena-class Droid Bomber - ••Baktoid Prototype - 35
    ••Baktoid Prototype - Function over Form (28)
        •Diamond-Boron Missiles (6)
        Landing Struts (Closed) (1)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
    Trade Federation Drone - (19)
        Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Really screwed up the Probe Droid as it was my first time using it.  I SHOULD have sent it on turn 2 and everyone would've had a TL, but I waited a turn.   I only got 2 TL for the Bombers and none for the Vultures. 

My initial salvo was too spread out, but I damaged every ship.  One IG lost all shields, as did the Misthunter.  After that, he had a few key rounds where he out flew me.  I went for bumps too often and he knows my play style.   I almost killed the Misthunter.  There was one crucial round where he killed a number of my ships and my attacks couldn't get through.  I called it there as it was quite late.

Overall, I really need to practice with the Probe and getting those TL done.  Also should deploy in a corner, instead of in the middle.

 

Deploy slightly offset to the middle facing left or right side (usually right). If they deploy behind, just 5 straight, if they deploy in front, K turn then straight 3. Dork deliverer doesn't change, he sets up dead center, either K turns or tallons depending on positions, then joins the squad with a hard 2. If you arc dodgers, just fight on board edges or in corners. I would say dense rock fields are you friend, but only 2 struts and none on your front line guys makes that harder.

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22 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

Deploy slightly offset to the middle facing left or right side (usually right). If they deploy behind, just 5 straight, if they deploy in front, K turn then straight 3. Dork deliverer doesn't change, he sets up dead center, either K turns or tallons depending on positions, then joins the squad with a hard 2. If you arc dodgers, just fight on board edges or in corners. I would say dense rock fields are you friend, but only 2 struts and none on your front line guys makes that harder.

I wish I had a visual to understand better.  It sounds funky, but good.  I just need to see it to understand your word choice better. 

Yeah, I got to fire Proton Torpedoes once and did 4 damage, but Plasma would've done the same.  I can see changing.  My opponent was nervous about allowing me to have any rocks on my side.

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I got my 2nd Hyena today.  I'm going to have to decide on the first silly list to fly.  Probably an Adv. Proton DBS-404 or a Diamond-Boron Baktoid, backed by 32-C and Butterbot.  Could toss in Grievous and another vulture, or perhaps a sith infiltrator.

DBS-32C (42)    
    Landing Struts (1)    

DBS-404 (30)    
    Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)    
    Landing Struts (1)    

DFS-311 (23)    
    Grappling Struts (1)    

General Grievous (44)    
    Outmaneuver (6)    
    Kraken (10)    
    Impervium Plating (4)    
    Soulless One (6)    

Trade Federation Drone (19)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    (or discord missiles)
    Grappling Struts (1)    

Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z328XWWW237Y326X134WWWW237Y337XW208WY305X126W222W207W229Y279X209W208W&sn=Butterbot Buddies&obs=

 

 

DBS-32C (42)    
    Landing Struts (1)    

    
DBS-404 (30)    
    Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)    
    Shield Upgrade (6)    
    Landing Struts (1)    

    
DFS-311 (23)    
    Grappling Struts (1)    

    
Darth Maul (67)    
    Hate (9)    
    Jamming Beam (0)    
    General Grievous (3)    
    Kraken (10)


Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z328XWWW237Y326X134WWW165W237Y337XW208WY272X204W12WW219WWWWW222&sn=Butterbot Buddies&obs=

 

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I got a single game in last night vs. a tournament level Imperial list:

  • Vader with Engine Upgrade and FCS
  • Dutchess with Predator
  • Major Vermeil with a bunch of stuff that included a Shield Upgrade and...Predator?

I used @MasterShake2's list that I tried out the week before GenCon (to bad effect).  I got some pointers on deployment, but I think I strung out my ships too far apart.  The game started out better than the last one for me and I was able to get the Probe Droid out there.  I moved along my deployment area to pull them to me.  When they came in, I was too spread out.   Even though I had TL's on everyone and Calculates, I didn't really get an alpha strike done.  I stripped the shields off Vermeil, which was nice, but not game breaking.  They went all swoopy and soon I was down 3 Vulture Droids with nothing new to show for it.   I thought I was doomed, but fought on.  Using blocking, I was able to finally get some hits in.  Vader was stripped of shields and brought to 2 Hull.  Vermeil was down to 2 Hull and Dutchess was untouched.  I lost another Vulture and one of the Hyenas was down to 2 hull.  I used rocks a lot and managed to kill Major Vermeil.  My other Bomber got down to 2 hull, but I killed Dutchess.  I made a mistake and just barely got in range of Vader with one Hyena that was trying to circle the outside.  He died.  I was down to my Vulture who had reloaded ESC and my TUB with no more ordnance, both on rocks.   I had to make the decision to turn or not with the Vulture on the rock.....as Vader was a bit far out.   I didn't turn and it was a mistake.  Vader zoomed in and blasted my TUB down.  I had no shot....with ESC on Vader with no Force or Focus.  We danced at this point, but he got me....because he's Vader.  :)

It was a great game and I've never seen the Droids come back so hard before.  They usually pop too easily.  The Hyenas have some hull to them and can withstand a solid shot at them.  I also understand that I was too strung out in my deployment. 

 

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1 hour ago, Wazat said:

I'm guessing that's Afterburners on Vader (not Engine Upgrade).

Sounds like a great fight!  You came very close to a victory despite a harsh start.

Yeah.  Stuck in 1.0 mode for upgrades I don't usually take.  

It was a good fight and I'm surprised how I was able to come back.  I need to get better on the opening.   I'm figuring out what NOT to do, at least!

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Last night I flew a Separatist double-hyena list with all named (limited) pilots, which is heresy.  ^_^

DBS-32C (42)    
    Landing Struts (1)    

DBS-404 (30)    
    Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)    
    Shield Upgrade (6)    
    Landing Struts (1)    

DFS-311 (23)    
    Grappling Struts (1)    

Darth Maul (67)    
    Hate (9)    
    Jamming Beam (0)    
    General Grievous (3)    
    Kraken (10)

Total: 199

 

It's a lot of fun!  DBS-404 got to fire APTs twice, and did incredible damage.  He survived to reload and shoot again thanks to support from 32C and 311, who not only helped his damage output but gave him defensive or offensive rolls and tokens when needed.  Maul was just a monster as always.  This felt like a breath of fresh air (not a vulture swarm, and not relying on Grievous), and I enjoyed flying the list.

I also flew Scum Han last night with Dengar, with more mixed results.  That list won too but still needs more tweaking.

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1 hour ago, Wazat said:

Last night I flew a Separatist double-hyena list with all named (limited) pilots, which is heresy.  ^_^

DBS-32C (42)    
    Landing Struts (1)    

DBS-404 (30)    
    Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)    
    Shield Upgrade (6)    
    Landing Struts (1)    

DFS-311 (23)    
    Grappling Struts (1)    

Darth Maul (67)    
    Hate (9)    
    Jamming Beam (0)    
    General Grievous (3)    
    Kraken (10)

Total: 199

 

It's a lot of fun!  DBS-404 got to fire APTs twice, and did incredible damage.  He survived to reload and shoot again thanks to support from 32C and 311, who not only helped his damage output but gave him defensive or offensive rolls and tokens when needed.  Maul was just a monster as always.  This felt like a breath of fresh air (not a vulture swarm, and not relying on Grievous), and I enjoyed flying the list.

I also flew Scum Han last night with Dengar, with more mixed results.  That list won too but still needs more tweaking.

Nice. 

Is this how you'd optimize it? 

I am a bit sad that coordinator and doofus don't get ESC 

Do you think DBS is worth adding APTs to? 

And do you think 32C is worth it? That one seems very severely overcosted. 

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Just now, Blail Blerg said:

Nice. 

Is this how you'd optimize it? 

I am a bit sad that coordinator and doofus don't get ESC 

Do you think DBS is worth adding APTs to? 

And do you think 32C is worth it? That one seems very severely overcosted. 

For me, my goal was to play a non-vulture-swarm separatist list with two hyenas, and I like the result.  There's a bit of support and a lot of firepower.  You could replace Maul with a ESC/Discord Vulture and Grievous, if desired, and you'd still only be at 2 vultures.  Or shed the 2nd vulture to put ESC etc on butterbot and DBS-32C, though they may not fire ESC often because their goal is supporting allies with their calculates.  IMO Grievous is scarier for opponents than DBS-404, which creates openings for 404.  But Maul is scary to shoot and hard to kill, so Kraken is well-protected and you have a single point of muscle that the opponent has to be careful about allowing to reach endgame.  So either way works.

404 is absolutely worth giving APTs.  He really scares foes for only 6 points extra, and that starts getting them to dance around him.  Combine that with Maul or Grievous and you have a lot of targeting priority drama in the air, and whichever they choose is liable to be wrong (IMO especially with Grievous).  I flew 311 up the center and parked on the rock, and flanked from the left with Maul and from the center-right with DBS-404 and -32C.  Worked great.

IMO 32C allowed me to reposition a vulture or hyena after everyone's position was set in stone.  Need to barrel roll into position to fire APT?  No problem.  Need to barrel roll out of range or arc of something mean?  Easy.  It's really good timing for that sort of reposition, and if you're using APTs, Discord Missiles, or ESC, it helps set up that shot (coordinate a roll to link into focus or lock).  Yea it's a bit pricey, but it's 43 points for a 5-hull ship with a fantastic support ability.  And with the way these ships share tokens when clustered, it's surprisingly durable against getting outright killed.

Against some fleets?  It'll just die, like everything does that's not the tippy-top meta.  But in this case I did pretty well with it.

I was rolling into position and acquiring the lock with 404 thanks to 32-C's coordinate, and getting a 2nd or 3rd calculate thanks to 311 (on top of the action calc from earlier, and the calc kept with kracken).  The APTs hit really hard 5 hits/crits on the first blast, and 6 on the 2nd.  I also dodged shots thanks to the coordinate and 311's calc, including with 404 once it was hurt and vulnerable.  I lined up shots with other ships on the team when they didn't plan quite the right maneuver.  It didn't come up in that game, but I could have arc-dodged with my init 1 DFS-311.  The only one on the team that can't receive the coordinate is Grievous or Maul, and they have their own things going on already.

 

BUT-- A reminder that I'm a filthy casual, so what I enjoy has no right to exist in the eyes of the tournament-purists.  If you want "the best, most powerful", my advice remains to stick to ESC vulture swarms until tournament players abandon them.  My goal is to explore new ideas and have fun with stuff the meta usually eschews.  So make sure you view everything I discuss through that lens.

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@MasterShake2  I have swapped out my Proton Torps for the Struts and I have to admit that Struts are pretty clutch in a lot of games.   I do miss the extra attack die, though, especially if I manage to live to the mid or late game.   Overall, I appreciate your help with strategy.

13 hours ago, Wazat said:

BUT-- A reminder that I'm a filthy casual, so what I enjoy has no right to exist in the eyes of the tournament-purists.  If you want "the best, most powerful", my advice remains to stick to ESC vulture swarms until tournament players abandon them.  My goal is to explore new ideas and have fun with stuff the meta usually eschews.  So make sure you view everything I discuss through that lens.

Yeah.....I feel like I play a different game than some of these guys.  I played against someone who had an 11 point bid!?!?!?   I MAYBE have a point, and that's just because I can't find anything.   It's really very different when playing with more than 3 ships.  What is "good" changes.

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