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The Hyenas

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On 7/30/2019 at 4:21 AM, heychadwick said:

Yeah, you joined in 2016.  You should've seen it before you joined!   It was utterly brutal at times.  Still, these forums are much much better than reddit.  They are downright civil in comparison to other forums.  I've still had to block a few people and they still pop up enough.  I would say that FFG forums are really not so bad.   I have seen enough casuals around. 

Hmm... on reflection, I feel like this forum has gotten better over the past year, actually.  Maybe the switch to 2.0 drove away a lot of salt-spitters, or FFG started moderating the forums a bit more, or maybe I'm just naturally steering clear of naturally toxic discussions (like the rules forum).

I've heard mixed reviews of reddit for various communities, but I haven't ever visited.  I'm glad that on the wiki I and a few other users are able to intervene, gently or firmly, if someone is tearing into a new player, or shouting at whoever won't agree with them, or insisting on derailing discussions, etc.  Sometimes certain posters need a light tap on the shoulder to remind them of basic human civility rules; other times they need a day- or week-long suspension to let them cool their head, or encourage them to move on.  These forums have felt a bit more wild west to me, though maybe some moderators are acting in the background to cull bad actors and keep things somewhat civil.  And I wonder if I'm still mentally judging the forums by a few years ago... though I don't hang out in the rules forum much anymore.  I love helping people with the rules and resolving disputes when able, but I got tired of the protracted and munchkiny discussions of unclear wording generating rage, salt, and always the automatic condescension.  Like the battle over 1.0's Targeting Synchronizer and friends...  That was awful.  2.0's rules being better at their core has helped that too.

Now instead of coming here to discuss rules, I discuss fleets and ships with mainly a casual interest, and the forum feels like a much more welcoming place.  Occasionally condescending or salty ("x or y pilot is just garbage, shame on you for trying to use it, just get over it"), but usually not a cesspool.  It's been a much better experience.

 

BTW (now that I've broached the subject, gods help us), I do have a rules question: If I have buzz droids attached to a foe's front, and they move and land on a proximity mine, it looks like both the buzz droids and mine have the same timing.  So I can resolve the mine first, so that I'm able to place the buzz droids in front of their ship without being blocked by the (now removed) mine.  Am I missing something important, or is this technically correct, the best kind of correct?  ;)

I've been thinking about ways buzz droids can be shed besides obstacles and ships.  It seems like Probe Droids would be useful for shedding buzz droids (move the probe to where you want to place your ship, and try to land on it).  Buzz droids aren't meta enough to plan for it, but if you're fielding probes anyway and you face discord missiles, it's an interesting strategy to have in mind since that object is not hazardous like obstacles.  Even dropping a bomb or mine with a fuse token in your ally's path could help shed buzz droids, which is a cool consideration.  Not sure these options will ever happen in practice, but I like thinking about the crazy edge cases.

 

Today I'm thinking of borrowing someone's hyena to fly 32C and a bombardment drone together with vultures or belly-bubs.  I haven't settled on the list yet though.

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4 minutes ago, Wazat said:

If I have buzz droids attached to a foe's front, and they move and land on a proximity mine, it looks like both the buzz droids and mine have the same timing.  So I can resolve the mine first, so that I'm able to place the buzz droids in front of their ship without being blocked by the (now removed) mine.

I think it depends on who controls the proximity mine. If it is the player that controls the buzz droids the I think it proceeds as you outlined. If it is the opponent of the controller of the buzz droids then I think it falls under player order.

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1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

I think it depends on who controls the proximity mine. If it is the player that controls the buzz droids the I think it proceeds as you outlined. If it is the opponent of the controller of the buzz droids then I think it falls under player order.

Good point.  I was only imagining plowing through the buzz player's mine, but player order throws a wrench in it otherwise.

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Last night I used Diamond-Boron Missiles to great effect.  It wasn't against a swarm and I only tagged 2 ships (target and its buddy).  I killed both and it was fantastic (grievous was also in the blast but rolled a focus).  I like that the charge can be replenished, which puts it worlds above electro-proton bomb (which I haven't used yet and I'm struggling to figure out a good way to deploy it).  I got a second missile shot off too, but never took the time to reload to use its effect again because I could never get into a good position to take the stress.  :(

I flew my hyena with Grievous and Darth Maul and no relay, so neither of them could feed the baktoid's ability.  But that wasn't necessary, as palpatine's coordinate and some planning worked out to get me what I needed.  It would have worked better if I'd flown vultures, but I'm trying to experiment with separatist lists that are not just vulture swarms.  For science!  And also because vulture swarms have started boring me to tears and I really want the faction to leave its comfort zone and explore, and I'm casual enough to get away with dumb experiments.

I had a shield upgrade on my hyena and it survived pretty well, though init 1 felt very vulnerable.  I got arc-dodged a lot.  It's also a lot of points to invest in a hyena but I had the points to spare, and wanted to make sure it lived to deploy those missiles.

I think the next step is a bomb-launching bombardment drone (trajectory sim, delayed fuses, proton bombs).  I've been looking forward to this, but I have no idea if it'll be remotely effective or just silly janky crap.  I'll find out next week!

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What I like about DBM the most is that, while the splash damage can be very potent, it affects the range 0 target

I.e, it's a 3 die attack with a 50/50 shot at a "forth" damage making it kinda-sorta on par with protorps at less than half the points!

sure it requires an extra charge for that 50/50, but given the fleeting nature of the life of a hyena, it's a pretty easy price to pay a lot of the time

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I tried this

51 minutes ago, Wazat said:

bomb-launching bombardment drone (trajectory sim, delayed fuses, proton bombs).

It is very much just silly jank and not as effective as I had hoped, but it was a whole lot of fun being able to launch and reload (rinse repeat). I have been having fun experimenting with not traditional CIS lists lately too. I'm not great at swarms and have found success with them, even with only 3-5 ships on the board. Although I must admit I really enjoyed flying 7 vultures and an infiltrator and seeing Wazat shudder in horror.

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18 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

@Wazat have you tried the struts?  I have found the bombers are great at sitting on a rock and reloading/clearing stress with struts.  Plus you can ignore the rock and still get it for defense.

I have tried the landing struts and they're fantastic.  For the trajectory sim build my plan is to occasionally park on a rock and just rotate and reload to keep launching bombs, some delayed, others not.  But I'll need to detach often since it's quite predictable.

6 minutes ago, dunhop said:

I tried this

It is very much just silly jank and not as effective as I had hoped, but it was a whole lot of fun being able to launch and reload (rinse repeat). I have been having fun experimenting with not traditional CIS lists lately too. I'm not great at swarms and have found success with them, even with only 3-5 ships on the board. Although I must admit I really enjoyed flying 7 vultures and an infiltrator and seeing Wazat shudder in horror.

I remember that.  *shudder*  :P

I wonder if I could position two launchers in a line so they cover a bunch of area, forcing a jousty list to veer away and go around.  Could help with setting up a flank or other unhappy engagement for an opponent that really wants to command the approach.  But two launchers is a lot of points, so maybe just 1 and a prayer: launch 1 with a fuse, move 2 forward, then launch another with no fuse so there's no safe area on the approach that round.  :)  Not necessarily a reliable plan, but all the same I love the idea for dealing with beef and swarm lists that just want to force the opponent into a joust.  Punishing them for the direct charge or forcing them to veer off could be fantastic if it ever works.  (big if)

I also think the bombardment drone's launch 1 forward could be handy as a surprise death zone, even though it nukes itself in the process.  Schlock Mercenary: "If you're not willing to shell your own position, you're not willing to win."

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On 7/29/2019 at 9:11 AM, ClassicalMoser said:

I remember this happened to me exactly one time back in 1.0. I was trying out my new VCX and ran a double-tapping Autoblaster/Accuracy Corrector Ghost and killed my opponent's Talonbane Cobra in one round with no dice because he didn't realize how it worked. It just felt awful. I never ran a VCX against him in 1.0 again, and every time I used it afterward it was with Dorsal Turret. Having fun beats winning games any day.

I had this exact thing done to me. And I did it once to try it out. 

Totally no fun for my two times also. And not fun for this time you mentioned. 

 

There was a as a lot of unfun stuff in 1.0 that was also tip top no counter meta. I hope it doesn’t ever get even slightly incentivized by being better than most lists. 

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5 hours ago, Wazat said:

I have tried the landing struts and they're fantastic.  For the trajectory sim build my plan is to occasionally park on a rock and just rotate and reload to keep launching bombs, some delayed, others not.  But I'll need to detach often since it's quite predictable.

I remember that.  *shudder*  :P

I wonder if I could position two launchers in a line so they cover a bunch of area, forcing a jousty list to veer away and go around.  Could help with setting up a flank or other unhappy engagement for an opponent that really wants to command the approach.  But two launchers is a lot of points, so maybe just 1 and a prayer: launch 1 with a fuse, move 2 forward, then launch another with no fuse so there's no safe area on the approach that round.  :)  Not necessarily a reliable plan, but all the same I love the idea for dealing with beef and swarm lists that just want to force the opponent into a joust.  Punishing them for the direct charge or forcing them to veer off could be fantastic if it ever works.  (big if)

I also think the bombardment drone's launch 1 forward could be handy as a surprise death zone, even though it nukes itself in the process.  Schlock Mercenary: "If you're not willing to shell your own position, you're not willing to win."

 

So, if it has struts it doesn't nuke itself.  land on a rock and open struts.  When they come close, plot a hard turn.  Device drop bomb, then turn 90 degrees to the side and barrel roll away.  Check the distance, it totally puts you out of range 1.

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6 hours ago, Wazat said:

 

I also think the bombardment drone's launch 1 forward could be handy as a surprise death zone, even though it nukes itself in the process.  Schlock Mercenary: "If you're not willing to shell your own position, you're not willing to win."

Delayed Fuses, my man!

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2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I don't really see how Delayed Fuses are good.  Bombs best work as a surprise and I just don't see it being that useful.   I'm willing to have my mind changed.

Put them in a likely path for an opponent to be in the next turn and maneuver to cover the likely routes they will take to avoid them. Bombs and mines are as much about controlling where your opponent will go as they are about dealing damage. For mines, the fuse is removed after the first ship triggers the mine. Drop or launch one (via Bombardment Drone or Zuvio) with a fuse on it and either have one of your ships zip through to strip the fuse and get past it without getting effected by the mine. Also pretty good if your opponent is running mismatched inits and you want to have the higher init take the hit from the mine.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I don't really see how Delayed Fuses are good.  Bombs best work as a surprise and I just don't see it being that useful.   I'm willing to have my mind changed.

Step 1.) Bombard launch a prox mine

Step 2.) Prox mine doesn't detonate if there's no overlap, so put a fuse counter' on it

Step 3.) Now you won't detonate your own stupid mine that's sitting in front of you

 

For bombs, it's all about controlling space and planning ahead 

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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26 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I don't really see how Delayed Fuses are good.  Bombs best work as a surprise and I just don't see it being that useful.   I'm willing to have my mind changed.

How long has it been since you saw Nym my man?  I won a small tournament in Charlotte and Nym's little trick was no small part of that.  Drop a seismic  between two obstacles and hold it for a turn or two.  Most ships don't want to eat bomb damage, when they do it's usually a mistake.

Delayed Fuses is similar but worse, but only 1 point.  It doesn't close off an area of the board but as a deterrent it works really well and can help you out maneuver your opponent.

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1 minute ago, Burius1981 said:

How long has it been since you saw Nym my man?  I won a small tournament in Charlotte and Nym's little trick was no small part of that.  Drop a seismic  between two obstacles and hold it for a turn or two.  Most ships don't want to eat bomb damage, when they do it's usually a mistake.

Delayed Fuses is similar but worse, but only 1 point.  It doesn't close off an area of the board but as a deterrent it works really well and can help you out maneuver your opponent.

I never really saw Nym being played, to be honest.  I never saw many Skurgs on the board.  I was already well out of the tournament scene and meta when that was out.

Nym worked (I thought) because it could sit indefinitely.  This other one works for just a turn.  I guess I would have to see it used well to really be worth it. 

I can think of blocking off some areas from arc dodging Jedi, but would take some practice.   Maybe also good once these Scenarios come out.

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1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

I don't really see how Delayed Fuses are good.  Bombs best work as a surprise and I just don't see it being that useful.   I'm willing to have my mind changed.

While using Bombardment Drones, on multiple occasions I got great uses out of those fuses on my proximity mines.  I needed to drop/launch a mine that might hit my buddy instead of a foe (or that I'd need to plow through later if I failed to hit the enemy with it).  I was able to place the mine down and see who it was under; only after placing it (before it detonates), I could choose to put a fuse on it if it was only touching allies.  The fuse prevented that ally-triggered detonation; later the enemy moved through the mine and set it off.

I haven't gotten to try area control with fuses on bombs, but mines are a lot easier to use now thanks to fuses.

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2 hours ago, Burius1981 said:

How long has it been since you saw Nym my man?  I won a small tournament in Charlotte and Nym's little trick was no small part of that.  Drop a seismic  between two obstacles and hold it for a turn or two.  Most ships don't want to eat bomb damage, when they do it's usually a mistake.

Delayed Fuses is similar but worse, but only 1 point.  It doesn't close off an area of the board but as a deterrent it works really well and can help you out maneuver your opponent.

Nym couldn't throw mines; Bombardment Drone can. What you need to do is to fly the Hyena in a way it'll crosspath another ship and then launch the mine with the fuse* when the enemy is REALLY close. Then you can safely go over it (a 3-straight is enough to stay outside it) and the enemy ship will go over it... KABOOM!

 

*only use the fuse (f-use!) if your ship moves BEFORE the enemy ship - otherwise, there's no need for the fuse

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2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I don't really see how Delayed Fuses are good.  Bombs best work as a surprise and I just don't see it being that useful.   I'm willing to have my mind changed.

It's the only way to make Cat's ability really work without mines (which can't be reloaded or TrajSimmed). It also make's Nym's obstruction bonus much easier to use. It also makes it possible to pile two or more bombs up on someone for an enormous AOE spike.

Definitely not something you'll want in every bomb list, but it can do some really interesting things.

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Hyena-class Droid Bomber - •••Bombardment Drone - 46
    •••Bombardment Drone - Time on Target (32)
        Proximity Mines (6)
        Conner Nets (6)
        Delayed Fuses (1)
        Landing Struts (Open) (1)

Belbullab-22 Starfighter - •General Grievous - 70
    •General Grievous - Ambitious Cyborg (44)
        Outmaneuver (6)
        Impervium Plating (4)
        •Soulless One (6)
        •Kraken (10)

Hyena-class Droid Bomber - ••Baktoid Prototype - 41
    ••Baktoid Prototype - Function over Form (28)
        Passive Sensors (3)
        Cluster Missiles (5)
        Ion Missiles (4)
        Landing Struts (Open) (1)

Hyena-class Droid Bomber - •••Bombardment Drone - 43
    •••Bombardment Drone - Time on Target (32)
        Seismic Charges (3)
        Proximity Mines (6)
        Delayed Fuses (1)
        Landing Struts (Open) (1)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

 

Flew this a few days ago, won 200-0. Now it was just a casual game but against a good player.

Have to say bombardment drones + proxies and delayed fuses is really really nasty. And sitting on a rock fire missiles is really fun.

Was way more impressed with this ship then I though I would be.

Also they greivous build going down 9pts in the changes never hurt ;)

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Casual games against good players can be incredibly satisfying.  You both get to experiment with stuff that's more varied than what's in the meta, and they're going to give you a tough fight so you usually have to earn that victory.

I'm glad to see someone else enjoying bombardment shenanigans!

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2 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

It's the only way to make Cat's ability really work without mines (which can't be reloaded or TrajSimmed). It also make's Nym's obstruction bonus much easier to use. It also makes it possible to pile two or more bombs up on someone for an enormous AOE spike.

Definitely not something you'll want in every bomb list, but it can do some really interesting things.

Btw who is Cat?? 

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