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Now that the basic sourcebooks are done

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1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The reasoning was simple, really. It allowed them to provide more detail about each given line's focus without skimping on "world-building" detail or game mechanic rules. If they had crammed all of it into a single core book, they would have had to cut out a lot of key "in universe world-building" information needed for role-playing the different types of characters in the setting in order to accommodate the game mechanics. As such, it would be heavily stripped down. By splitting it up into three lines, they could provide all of the rules needed for play without sacrificing any world-building and thematic focus, thus providing a much more complete game for each theme. 

It also allowed them to slowly roll out the force so as to not imbalance the game. It also allowed to tailor careers to the three different genres. When they asked people what was star wars to them they got 3 answers. 

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10 minutes ago, jivjov said:

What's this supposed to mean? Are you upset that Star Wars movies are still set in the Star Wars universe with Star Wars aliens and ships and stuff?

Episode 7 followed the beats of 4. Episode 8 followed the beats of 5 badly. And so on. 

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11 hours ago, Xcapobl said:

But the question stands; why reprint parts from all three of your lines, and not devote the book entirely to new stuff?

I would not be surprised if the answer lies with the ownership situation of Star Wars.  Edge was created back when the Expanded Universe, though not hard canon, was canon enough for FFG to be able to pull from it seemingly at will.

I assume, and I could be wrong here, that Disney has taken a more restrictive stance on what FFG can pull from, or what they can create on their own, because of their stance on canon.  Therefore, I assume it's easier for FFG to avoid creating too much of own stuff, if they would be allowed to at all.

Though that's just my perception of the situation, and I could be wrong.

3 hours ago, jivjov said:

What's this supposed to mean? Are you upset that Star Wars movies are still set in the Star Wars universe with Star Wars aliens and ships and stuff?

Not upset, just disappointed.  7 felt too close to IV for my taste, and 8 felt like someone watched V and VI once a few years prior, and attempted to recreate them as one movie.

The Prequels, for all of their issues, had stories and settings that didn't feel like they were copied from the originals.

I feel that sourcebooks going forward might feel too much like the sequels have - you might have a few new things, but otherwise it's a reskin of what we already have.  The Disney movies have suffered because they haven't been working with Lucas and his vision for his galaxy, and I don't know how good the sourcebooks can be without the wealth of EU (now 'legends') material to pull from.

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9 hours ago, Subhntr said:

The Prequels, for all of their issues, had stories and settings that didn't feel like they were copied from the originals.

You might want to pay closer attention then.  Because while the specifics changed, the prequels did hit the same major beats as the originals did, to the point that some have ascribed Lucas to intentionally following the Ring Theory when creating the prequels so that each film would resonate with it's corresponding film in the originals.  TPM mirrors ANH, AotC mirrors ESB, and RotS mirrors RotJ.

I personally find it hilarious that people crap on the sequel films for being "unoriginal" and "just rehashing the original films" when Lucas already did exactly that with the prequels.

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19 hours ago, splad said:

I never got for one why their was three lines in the first place it seemed chaotic or a chance to gouge the player for unnecessary core rule book purchases. I do agree that a condensed gear guide or faction guide would work wonders to stream line play instead of having to hunt down gear spread across dozens of books. Same goes for a race guide, ship guide etc maybe the emphasis was on ffg garnering extra money in  shoddy tactics than letting players have what they need at their finger tips.  I still can't fathom their reasoning.

It's quite the opposite.  They made a streamline system that required only 1 book for a group of players.  Many other RPGs require multiple books for a group of players.  SWRPG requires only 1.  The 3 different core books are no different than 3 separate setting guides.  If you want to play Han Solo, go EOTE.  If you want to play Leia, go AOR.  If you want to play Luke, go FAD.

To include all of the classes, races and specs from all 3 books into one core player manual would have meant having to squeeze out something else, like adversaries, the adventures, gear, ships, GM info, etc.  Now you need to combine the adversaries from all three books and make a monster manual, and the GM info, and adventures into a GM guide.  Now instead of needing 1 book to play, you need a smattering of books to play.  Congrats.

As for the additional splat books.  Par for the course in any RPG system.  The company is trying to make profit after all.  Here's a splat book that expands this concept and adds classes, races, equipment, skills, ships, vehicles, and adds new rules for new things you can do in the game.  None of it is required for playing the game.  And when compared to other companies splat books, they are a bargain.  Other companies tend to add far less content across that spectrum in their splats.  I've seen collections of splat books for other games that never get worn because there is nothing of real value in them.  With the SWRPG splat books though, there is actual content that is useful (but again, not required).  Now if you want all of that included in the cores, well, we're just getting silly now.  You'd need a book, just for classes and races.  Another for gear, ships, vehicles.  Another for skills and abilities.  Etc, etc.

Again, the beauty of the way FFG did the 3 core system is that you only need 1 book for an entire group to start playing the game.  And honestly you never need any more than that.  Everything else is purely supplemental.  I've encountered groups where multiple people have copies of EVERYTHING.  I've also encountered groups where there is 1 of each core across the entire group and that's it.  I've even encountered groups that have 1 core book in total and have been playing for years with just that.

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3 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

To include all of the classes, races and specs from all 3 books into one core player manual would have meant having to squeeze out something else, like adversaries, the adventures, gear, ships, GM info, etc.  Now you need to combine the adversaries from all three books and make a monster manual, and the GM info, and adventures into a GM guide.  Now instead of needing 1 book to play, you need a smattering of books to play.  Congrats.

This was a recurring complaint with the WotC core rulebooks for their three d20 iterations (OCR, RCR, and especially Saga Edition).  WEG only got away with it because the rules for character creation were incredibly simple and even then they didn't go into a whole lot of detail about the SW universe, and they had it the easiest as the EU didn't really exist at the times that WEG published their 1st and 2nd editions of the book.

Trying to fit everything into a single book and keep it reasonably priced meant something was going to have to go, or that FFG would have to release a product on the lower-end of the quality scale in order to keep costs down.  Trying to cram all the material that each of the three core books into a single volume while keeping the high-end production values that FFG is typically known for would result in a monster of a book with a price point of at least $100, which is pretty equal to dying on the vine as few people would be willing to pay that much money (on top of the price for the custom dice) for an untried system.

The brilliance of FFG's approach is that for those folks who are only interested in select portions of the setting, they can easily choose to disregard the books from the other line.  Running a game where there are no Force using PCs?  No need for Force and Destiny products.  Only want to focus on the classic "Rebels vs. Empire" theme, then you can focus on just the AoR books and ignore the rest.

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6 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

It's quite the opposite.  They made a streamline system that required only 1 book for a group of players.  Many other RPGs require multiple books for a group of players.  SWRPG requires only 1.  The 3 different core books are no different than 3 separate setting guides.  If you want to play Han Solo, go EOTE.  If you want to play Leia, go AOR.  If you want to play Luke, go FAD.

To include all of the classes, races and specs from all 3 books into one core player manual would have meant having to squeeze out something else, like adversaries, the adventures, gear, ships, GM info, etc.  Now you need to combine the adversaries from all three books and make a monster manual, and the GM info, and adventures into a GM guide.  Now instead of needing 1 book to play, you need a smattering of books to play.  Congrats.

As for the additional splat books.  Par for the course in any RPG system.  The company is trying to make profit after all.  Here's a splat book that expands this concept and adds classes, races, equipment, skills, ships, vehicles, and adds new rules for new things you can do in the game.  None of it is required for playing the game.  And when compared to other companies splat books, they are a bargain.  Other companies tend to add far less content across that spectrum in their splats.  I've seen collections of splat books for other games that never get worn because there is nothing of real value in them.  With the SWRPG splat books though, there is actual content that is useful (but again, not required).  Now if you want all of that included in the cores, well, we're just getting silly now.  You'd need a book, just for classes and races.  Another for gear, ships, vehicles.  Another for skills and abilities.  Etc, etc.

Again, the beauty of the way FFG did the 3 core system is that you only need 1 book for an entire group to start playing the game.  And honestly you never need any more than that.  Everything else is purely supplemental.  I've encountered groups where multiple people have copies of EVERYTHING.  I've also encountered groups where there is 1 of each core across the entire group and that's it.  I've even encountered groups that have 1 core book in total and have been playing for years with just that.

Funny that WEG managed to incorporate all the above in to one rulebook. Rules that were fast moving, emulating the cinematic action of the Star Wars Universe....and went on to win awards.

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23 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Episode 7 followed the beats of 4. Episode 8 followed the beats of 5 badly. And so on. 

An aweful lot of Star Wars follows these beats.  It is in some ways a narratively very limited setting.

There's only so many ways you can do a hero's journey kind of saga, and even fewer ways you can do something that feels like proper Star Wars.

Even KotOR ended with the redemption of a fallen loved one, and the blowing up of a Sith super weapon.

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4 minutes ago, splad said:

Funny that WEG managed to incorporate all the above in to one rulebook. Rules that were fast moving, emulating the cinematic action of the Star Wars Universe....and went on to win awards.

When I look at that one rulebook, all I see is Rebellion versus Empire. As written, it was mandatory for the PCs to be good members of the Rebel alliance. The rulebook also didn't really pay much attention to the world at all. Later on, sure, you got brilliant stuff like the Tramp Freighters book and Fragments From The Rim.

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8 minutes ago, splad said:

Funny that WEG managed to incorporate all the above in to one rulebook. Rules that were fast moving, emulating the cinematic action of the Star Wars Universe....and went on to win awards.

As had already been stated though, WEG was itself a simpler system to begin with, with not that many rules. Not only that, but there wasn't much in the way of lore at the time either. In fact, WEG actually wrote a significant amount of the lore that went into the EU. And even then, it was extremely light on in universe material, such as species, monsters, gear, etc. Thus, you absolutely needed the "splat books" that came later in order to flesh out the game. 

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1 hour ago, micheldebruyn said:

When I look at that one rulebook, all I see is Rebellion versus Empire. As written, it was mandatory for the PCs to be good members of the Rebel alliance. The rulebook also didn't really pay much attention to the world at all. Later on, sure, you got brilliant stuff like the Tramp Freighters book and Fragments From The Rim.

I'm more interested in that they had to separate the rules for the roles in the which ffg easily made more unified by keeping it under one title, present lore would have made a thicker book but their was no good reason to storage the scoundrel, rebel and force user when it is more of the case that it is a blended universe

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8 minutes ago, splad said:

I'm more interested in that they had to separate the rules for the roles in the which ffg easily made more unified by keeping it under one title, present lore would have made a thicker book but their was no good reason to storage the scoundrel, rebel and force user when it is more of the case that it is a blended universe

They did that to allow players and GMs to choose what they wanted to focus on more, and what kind of stories they wanted to tell. An underworld-centric campaign or story, like Solo is going to be a lot different than a Rebellion vs Empire story such as Rebels or Resistance, or a Force focused story such as KotOR or Tales of the Jedi. Sure, you can mix and match, and the rules are designed to accommodate that seamlessly.  However, if a group only wants to focus on one aspect of the setting, having the Core rules divided as they are allowed the developers to grant more detailed information about that sub-genre without skimping on the game mechanics and without bogging it down with other information not relevant to that focus. This gives players and GMs a choice of what they want to focus on more, and gives a lot more information about that focus than could be done if a single core book covered all three campaign types. 

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35 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

They did that to allow players and GMs to choose what they wanted to focus on more, and what kind of stories they wanted to tell. An underworld-centric campaign or story, like Solo is going to be a lot different than a Rebellion vs Empire story such as Rebels or Resistance, or a Force focused story such as KotOR or Tales of the Jedi. Sure, you can mix and match, and the rules are designed to accommodate that seamlessly.  However, if a group only wants to focus on one aspect of the setting, having the Core rules divided as they are allowed the developers to grant more detailed information about that sub-genre without skimping on the game mechanics and without bogging it down with other information not relevant to that focus. This gives players and GMs a choice of what they want to focus on more, and gives a lot more information about that focus than could be done if a single core book covered all three campaign types. 

I prefer single core rulebook and then captain guides as it would be more efficient to find relevant information and that the tip of how much fluid that makes things

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42 minutes ago, splad said:

I prefer single core rulebook and then captain guides as it would be more efficient to find relevant information and that the tip of how much fluid that makes things

Except it isnt more efficient. It is less efficient. For a couple reasons. One they could put all there effort into each core seperately. That wouldnt happen with a single book. They could ease the force into the game with out unbalancing things. Because every other version the force was broken. The game is much better for being seperate core rules. No amount of complaining is going to change that. Also there is no way you would have gotten the amount of stuff you got in 1 core that you got in 3. Be happy for the amount of material you got.

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2 hours ago, splad said:

I'm more interested in that they had to separate the rules for the roles in the which ffg easily made more unified by keeping it under one title, present lore would have made a thicker book but their was no good reason to storage the scoundrel, rebel and force user when it is more of the case that it is a blended universe

In all likelyhood, this  would have resulted in what we have usually gotten in the past: a mostly Rebel versus Empire RPG with some fringe and Force elements tacked on.

Probably like 6 Rebel careers, 3-4 Edge careers, and 2 Force  careers.

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1 minute ago, DarkHorse said:

I expect we will see a Mandalorian (the tv series) sourcebook before too long.

Depends on how long it goes. Or how many seasons they put in a book. Expect a yers after they start making the book. So likely a couple years out at least. And the sequel era is at least a year out from Rise of Skywalkers release. MAYBE we might gwt some stuff frome the Mandalorian in that book. 

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Posted (edited)

Would people want to see mini-splat books for things like The Mandalorian? Rather than 96 pages a 30 page mini book released more frequently? Couple of races, a specialisation, weapons and gear then a little fluff.

Edited by MrTInce

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I doubt we will see a version 2 of anything as FFG has always corrected each subsequent printing of the books and, as they only do relatively small print runs, that means less uncorrected original books out there. That aside I read somewhere on the forum that in later print runs that the Bothans were removed from the game.

As to what they could do next, they could do a few more adventure books, maybe crossover adventures merging EofE Characters into AoR or DaD into AoR. 

I'd like to see a Ships and Vehicles book, but after that I think it all depends on the direction Disney wants them to take.

Actually I have one request for them, to do an Index book for GM's of where everything is across all the books. Trying to find stuff when a player asks you is a nightmare. Myself and my mate are avid starwars fans and have the complete lot, I still have my almost complete set of WEG 2nd Edition as well.

 

Ok and one more request a better designed GM screen... compared to the D&D screens and screens from other games I find it practically useless. Love the artwork, detest the screen info and layout....

 

 

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17 hours ago, splad said:

Funny that WEG managed to incorporate all the above in to one rulebook. Rules that were fast moving, emulating the cinematic action of the Star Wars Universe....and went on to win awards.

WEG had a fraction of the material though as did the D20.

WEG had like 24 templates.  Each of the FFG cores have 18+ specs that are specialized to that content area.  Each spec comes with a detailed tree of skills that need to be fleshed out on top of that.  To combine the three cores and maintain a book of the same size they'd need to cut out over half the classes/specs.  That would greatly reduce playing options.  The combined adversary, ship and vehicle information would need to be cut also.

On top of that, the WEG supplements were mostly fluff (or overly detailed into one extremely niche area), where as the FFG ones have a lot of new content and game mechanics and really add to the core game.  The WEG supplements were a fun read, but hardly content packed or useful(this was typical for supplements of the day).

What you are asking for is a base core that would need to be supplemented with at least 3 decent sized source books to reach the same level of content.  In this case you'd need the core and the AOR source to get what you get from the AOR core book alone.  In the end you are asking for 1 large and 3 medium sized source books instead of just 3 large books.  The cost for playing any 1 content area would be greater, and the cost to have all 3 source books plus the core would probably be a wash compared to 3 core books if you wanted the entire collection.

Look, WEG was good for what it was and when it released.  But at this point I think you are letting nostalgia blind your senses a bit.  You complain about FFG gouging customers for additional purchases but your idea would require even more purchases or a massive sacrifice in content, and your base comparison is a system that flooded the market with tons of splat books (they had close to 100 titles!!!) with little to no actual content besides fluff or an extreme level of detail into one very small area.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

What you are asking for is a base core that would need to be supplemented with at least 3 decent sized source books to reach the same level of content.  In this case you'd need the core and the AOR source to get what you get from the AOR core book alone.  In the end you are asking for 1 large and 3 medium sized source books instead of just 3 large books.  The cost for playing any 1 content area would be greater, and the cost to have all 3 source books plus the core would probably be a wash compared to 3 core books if you wanted the entire collection.

The advantage of having one core is that FFG wouldn't need to reprint redundant rules that aren't shared between the current core books. They could also have more GM advice and systems like ship building and world building in the core. Then they could spoke off faction, genre, and era book lines from that.

Another book I would like to see is a GM toolkit world building book.

Edited by Eoen

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6 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

WEG had a fraction of the material though as did the D20.

WEG had like 24 templates.  Each of the FFG cores have 18+ specs that are specialized to that content area.  Each spec comes with a detailed tree of skills that need to be fleshed out on top of that.  To combine the three cores and maintain a book of the same size they'd need to cut out over half the classes/specs.  That would greatly reduce playing options.  The combined adversary, ship and vehicle information would need to be cut also.

On top of that, the WEG supplements were mostly fluff (or overly detailed into one extremely niche area), where as the FFG ones have a lot of new content and game mechanics and really add to the core game.  The WEG supplements were a fun read, but hardly content packed or useful(this was typical for supplements of the day).

What you are asking for is a base core that would need to be supplemented with at least 3 decent sized source books to reach the same level of content.  In this case you'd need the core and the AOR source to get what you get from the AOR core book alone.  In the end you are asking for 1 large and 3 medium sized source books instead of just 3 large books.  The cost for playing any 1 content area would be greater, and the cost to have all 3 source books plus the core would probably be a wash compared to 3 core books if you wanted the entire collection.

Look, WEG was good for what it was and when it released.  But at this point I think you are letting nostalgia blind your senses a bit.  You complain about FFG gouging customers for additional purchases but your idea would require even more purchases or a massive sacrifice in content, and your base comparison is a system that flooded the market with tons of splat books (they had close to 100 titles!!!) with little to no actual content besides fluff or an extreme level of detail into one very small area.

Nostalgia lol no, practicality and feed back from players who have played both systems. If you love it then great but the rules for FFG i find clunky, the forced dice narrative is halting for story telling and the space combat just plain diabolically bad. Mean while i like their source material. So i take what i want from it and put the rest in the airlock and flush. You may maintain your opinion of my thoughts but i've stated my view, take it or leave it:)

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On 7/22/2019 at 3:25 AM, Xcapobl said:

But whatever they do, I hope it will not involve too many repeats.

"Here's a new sourcebook about Species of the Galaxy. Three-quarters of them you already bought in all those other sourcebooks and splatbooks and adventures, but the other quarter, the new ones, will make this new book worth its money! Really!" *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*

I would absolutely love a Species book. When I look at a species in an Edge book it has almost no information about that species view of the Force or their roll in a rebellion game. By having a species book that covers all three lines they could expand upon almost every species, with many more opportunities for character ideas and plot hooks. I think Humans would be the only species that would have no new content.

Then when you look at any of the unofficial species lists you immediately know there’s still plenty of possibilities for new ones to include.

If they where to put in even more effort then they could have species specific motivations as well.

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