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There it is Luke and Vader article

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23 hours ago, Weikel said:

On the flip side, Palpatine's 2 pip is guaranteed to drop 4 suppression on Luke if timed right against that card.

A lot of heads games going on with that duo.

It's a little disappointing that "I am a Jedi" trumps "And Now You Will Die".  Generally that works the other way around....

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20 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

It's a little disappointing that "I am a Jedi" trumps "And Now You Will Die".  Generally that works the other way around....

True. It would have been nice if I am a Jedi prevented attack actions instead of preventing performing an attack. Then other ways to attack like And Now You Will Die could still go off.

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Is not like the text says "you can't use now you will die"... only you must do some tricky plays around these two interactions in order to outsmart your oponent play. This will be funny to see

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8 minutes ago, naitsirk said:

Is not like the text says "you can't use now you will die"... only you must do some tricky plays around these two interactions in order to outsmart your oponent play. This will be funny to see

Luke: Never. I'll never turn to the dark side. You have failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.
The Emperor: Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand. Your feeble card only works if you had been a few steps closer to me when you played it. You will pay the price for your lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker... you will die.

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1 hour ago, Weikel said:

True. It would have been nice if I am a Jedi prevented attack actions instead of preventing performing an attack. Then other ways to attack like And Now You Will Die could still go off.

 

I mean Give in to Your Anger is also a pretty good counter to Son of Skywalker, so it seems fair.

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1 hour ago, LunarSol said:
Luke: Never. I'll never turn to the dark side. You have failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.
The Emperor: Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand. Your feeble card only works if you had been a few steps closer to me when you played it. You will pay the price for your lack of vision. Now, young Skywalker... you will die.

The order in the movie was:

ROUND 1

1 palpatine: give in to your anger

1 luke: i'm a jedi

ROUND 2

2 palpatine : and now you will die

2 luke : doesn't matter cause he is suffer on the floor.

 

So we can say here palpatinr outsmarted luke with his play 

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11 minutes ago, naitsirk said:

The order in the movie was:

ROUND 1

1 palpatine: give in to your anger

1 luke: i'm a jedi

ROUND 2

2 palpatine : and now you will die

2 luke : doesn't matter cause he is suffer on the floor.

 

So we can say here palpatinr outsmarted luke with his play 

 

Round 2 he clearly tried the Son of Skywalker play, but Palp beat him on initiative and Immobilized him.

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I think you got it a bit wrong:

 

Round 1: 

Luke plays: Return of the Jedi

Palp plays: Entire Legion

 

Round 2: 

Palp plays: Give in to your anger

Luke plays: Son of Skywalker (sorry Darth)

 

Round 3: 

Luke plays: I am a Jedi

Palp plays: Standing orders (aka dramatic pause)

 

Round 4: 

Palp plays: And now you will die

Luke plays: Father, please (to be released - all wounds taken by you this turn are also inflicted to your opponent).

 

.... anyway....

 

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Posted (edited)
On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 1:04 PM, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Perhaps playing the roleplaying game Fantasy Flight makes would be better for you then.   Or even Imperial Assault.  

If you want play a thematic game play Rebels with only 200 points while the empire has 800..  see how that goes.   

It is also hard to play a story-telling game with rebels and Empire..  I mean, how many times did we see Rebel on Rebel and Empire on Empire action?   

That's exactly how things used to be and how we learned to play miniature wargames... with game Systems that adapted their stats and rules from roleplaying games. That's why it is SO important for a lot of persons the known lore, the background, the armies, the paints, the schemes, the realism, the story... but not the OFFICIAL story, but the story YOU WANT to create with your games.

First time i heard about a way to play with minis using LOTS of them and making a wargame that was not played with card tokens the game was in fact STAR WARS MINIATURES BATTLES.

Before this, the only wargames we knew were squirmish games, such as rogue trader or board games with minis, such as Space Hulk, blood bowl or the like.

Warhammer 40k only was known to bring large batles if you used the EPIC scale, with ridiculously tiny bases of five space marines.

So the rules we had were the complete role playing game stats... and we were used to have EVERYTHING regarding lore and rules from minute one, and the problem in fact was to find minis for everything!!

Now today, we know a whole game of miniatures can be almost perfect, due to Games Workshop and their 40k System. Wh40k showed us how it is possible to make BIG battles, how to make multipart plastic minis that can be used for a lot of diferent roles just using a sword instead of a pistol, and gave us the possibility to REALLY have a custom army, and invent stories while playing in a competitive environment... one thing DOESN'T invalidate the other...

Then, after 30 years, someone said that a BIG company (FFG) was going to make, finally, a wargame based in Star Wars.. and then I began to dream...

 

Star wars... the WHOLE lore of 30 years of star wars... how many army books are they going to do???? how many diferent combinations of imperial armies... how many rebel armies?? how many alien armies that could be used as neutral units? wookies? trandoshan? sullustan rebels? sorosuub chieftains? Imperial navy rogue officers? Imperial army garrison forces...? dark empire rogue imperial units? admiral thrawn forces? partisan armies? calamari resistance corps? nikto mercenaries? tatooine defenders?

OF COURSE that allows for empire vs empire and rebel vs rebel... because "rebel" or "imperial" is not just as easy as Black and white... we got 30 years of experience seeing diferent planets and factions fighting one against the other... not just TWO factions...

And how many boxes could we actually get?? Imperial stromtroopers multipart poseable kits? just like the space marine ones?? and rebel forces similar to that of the 40k imperial guard?? troopers with generic torsos and diferent leg options to create your own corps? or perhaps with extra heads and arms to have every race like rodians or calamari or niktos? how many diferent weapons can be on each sprue??? surely it will be enough sprues to match the BIG ARMY BOOKS that we are going to own... there's a TON of lore to show!!! so we will have a myriad of possible armies...

And perhaps, only PERHAPS, they will do some known heroes, some of them because they are obligued to... such as when 40k gives us the master chapters.. perhaps Luke Skywalker, leia, Han... and well, they will be there for collectors but will not have a strong visibility because they will be outside the scope of the game, that will be centered in batles across the known universe in the galactic civil war, and will not need to be centered around Luke, leia and their group...

 

And then we had... this...

How was i suposed to know that they wouldn't dare to make NOT A SINGLE RULEBOOK...?

How was i to know that they were going to left the rich star wars lore ASIDE...?

How was I to think that we were going to get the stats on cards, just because they were a company that made cards?

How was I to think that we were getting EVERY known and named character in star wars but we were not going to have  more than two infantry units?

How was I to know that they'd didn't care about diferent climate units being together?

How was I to think that this was going to be jUST a strategic game, with cards that allow for combos, and white and red dices that don't have any relation with actual units?

 

I know I know... you like it competitive... but 40k is ALSO competitive and they also have books that allow you to READ and wonder how you want your army to be... not to have a clone army... no pun intended.

Edited by Tubb

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15 minutes ago, Tubb said:

That's exactly how things used to be and how we learned to play miniature wargames... with game Systems that adpated their stats and rules from roleplaying games. That's why it is SO important to a lot of persons the known lore, the background, the armies, the paints, the schemes, the realism, the story... but not the OFFICIAL story, but the story YOU WANT to create with your games.

First time i heard about a way to play with minis using LOTS of them and making a wargame that was not played with card tokens the game was in fact STAR WARS MINIATURES BATTLES.

Before this, the only wargames we knew were swuirmish games, such as rogue trader or board games with minis, such as Space Hulk, blood bowl or the like.

Warhammer 40k only was known to bring large batles if you used the EPIC scale, with ridiculously tiny bases of five space marines.

So the rules we had were the complete role playing game stats... and we were used to have EVERYTHING regarding lore and rules from minute one, and the problem in fact was to find minis for everything!!

Now today, we know a whole game of miniatures can be almost perfect, due to Games Workshop and their 40k System. Wh40k showed us how it is possible to make BIG batles, how to make multipart plastic minis that can be used for a lot of diferent roles just using a sword instead of a pistol, and gave us the possibility to REALLY have a custom army, and invent stories while playing in a competitive environament... one thing DOESN'T invalidate the other...

Then, after 30 years, someone said that a BIG company (FFG) was going to make, finally, a wargame based in Star Wars.. and then I began to dream...

 

Star wars... the WHOLE lore of 30 years of star wars... how many army books are they going to do???? how many diferent combinations of imperial armies... how many rebel armies?? how many alien armies that could be used as neutral units? wookies? trandoshan? sullustan rebels? sorosuub chieftains? Imperial navy rogue officers? Imperial army garrison forces...? dark empire rogue imperial units? admiral thrawn forces? partisan armies? calamari resistance corps? nikto mercenaries? tatooine defenders?

OF COURSE that allows for empire vs empire and rebel vs rebel... because "rebel" or "imperial" is not just as easy as Black and white... we got 30 years of experience seeing diferent planets and factions fighting one against the other... not just TWO factions...

And how many boxes could we actually get?? Imperial stromtroopers multipart poseable kits? just like the space marine ones?? and rebel forces similar to that of the 40k imperial guard?? troopers with generic torsos and diferent leg options to create your own corps? or perhaps with extra heads and arms to have every race like rodians or calamarí or niktos? how many diferent weapons can be on each sprue??? surely it will be enough sprues to match the BIG ARMY BOOKS that we are going to own... there's a TON of lore to show!!! so we will have a myriad of possible armies...

And perhaps, only PERHAPS, they will do some known heroes, some of them because they are obligued to... such as when 40k gives us the master chapters.. perhaps Luke Skywalker, leia, Han... and well, they will be there for collectors but will not have a strong visibility because they will be outside the scope of the game, that will be centered in batles across the known universe in the galactic civil war, and will not need to be centered around Luke, leia and their group...

 

And then we had... this...

How was i suposed to know that they wouldn't dare to make NOT A SINGLE RULEBOOK...?

How was i to know that they were going to left the rich star wars lore ASIDE...?

How was I to think that we were going to get the stats on cards, just because they were a company that made cards?

How was I to think that we were getting EVERY known and named character in star wars but we were not going to have  more than two infantry units?

How was I to know that they'd didn't care about diferent climate units being together?

How was I to think that this was going to be jUST a strategic game, with cards that allow for combos, and white and red dices that don't have any relation with actual units?

 

I know I know... you like it competitive... but 40k is ALSO competitive and they also have books that allow you to READ and wonder how you want your army to be... not to have a clone army... no pun intended.

The game has been out like 18 months my man. Also if you didn't expect cards from ffg I can't help you.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Tirion said:

The game has been out like 18 months my man. Also if you didn't expect cards from ffg I can't help you.

Of course, and in 18 months I have waited for what I expected it to be, thinking that in the NEXT month it will be an infantry that i'd like,,, or that next wave they are going to do multiparts (they said that they were going to...) but after 18 months things have taken a very different course and i am beginning to get tired of meta and more meta and empty news and having story and armies in third place. And cards are NOT mandatory, it is only a matter of not wanting to invest in a System that would be SLIGHTLY diferent from what they are used to.

They make books... why was so strange to think they could make RULEBOOKS??

Army lists?

Lore books for diferent planets and environaments?

Different armies?

With their way of doing things, they are going to have lack of sources in less than a year... they don't invent nothing, they don't do anything other than repeating the same units and heroes again and again...

waiting for the XXX Disney series or the XXX episode movie to be able to have new units is the way to go????????

Edited by Tubb

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, TalkPolite said:

Man, if you don’t like what you see, it might be time to step away. I think you wanted a different product. 

You are completely right, but as a long term Star Wars fan I am dissapointed, and wanted to share it. That way of doing things will destroy this game in a year or so and it will be your (our) fault for supporting such a business model with such short minded and short term products without a complaint. No risk no loss? well... this used to be an inventive business, were persons dared to invent fantasy products... 30 years ago companies that had permission to make star wars products created what they thought they would need... why it is so difficult now???? why it has to be JUST the films?

Every videogame, board game, strategy game, comic, rpg, book, novel, and series have aported something new to star wars lore, that remained there...  what has FFG contributed?????

snowtroopers in tatooine????

palpatine fighting for a moisture vaporator?

Edited by Tubb

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Lol. Imagine, complaining about FFG having no imagination, but not being able to image a story for what’s going on in front of you. 

If you can’t bring a story to the games you’re playing, then maybe the problem isn’t with the game. 

If your a fan, you’ll make it work because it’s more Star Wars, and that’s Awesome. 

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8 minutes ago, Tubb said:

Of course, and in 18 months I have waited for what I expected it to be, thinking that in the NEXT month it will be an infantry that i'd like,,, or that next wave they are going to do multiparts (they said that they were going to...) but after 18 months things have taken a very different course and i am beginning to get tired of meta and more meta and empty news and having story and armies in third place. And cards are NOT mandatory, it is only a matter of not wanting to invest in a System that would be SLIGHTLY diferent from what they are used to.

They make books... why was so strange to think they could make RULEBOOKS??

Army lists?

Lore books for diferent planets and environaments?

Different armies?

With their way of doing things, they are going to have lack of sources in less than a year... they don't invent nothing, they don't do anything other than repeating the same units and heroes again and again...

waiting for the XXX Disney series or the XXX episode movie to be able to have new units is the way to go????????

My only gripe with this game is the lack of a rulebook, but with how frequently the RRG gets updated I'd hate to have to buy a new one every quarter.

Why would we ever need a lore books for legion? 40K needed to do it because the lore was made to fit what was in the game. A Star Wars game doesn't need that. Most all of us here know exactly what planet XYZ is like so it's kinda pointless.

We have different armies currently. If you want to the diversity of factions for a lack of a better term to be high then either all of them will end up being shallow 18 months into the game, or you need to gradually add in more as time goes by. I'm all for the latter.

We aren't going to run out of sources anytime soon. The old GCW wishlist threads alone would take FFG years to get through. CW might actually have more to pull from than the GCW. The Sequel Trilogy (Why can't it have a cool name too?) will likely be better flushed out to add to the game well before then. There's also Scum, which I know a lot of people want. Aside from the new Luke and Vader, they haven't repeated a single unit or hero so far.

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10 minutes ago, Tubb said:

Every videogame, board game, strategy game, comic, rpg, book, novel, and series have aported something new to star wars lore, that remained there...

Ah yes, every single product added something new to the Star Wars lore. I'll have to go update Chewbacca's wookieepedia page for that time he flew in circles in the Falcon knocking over Stormtroopers like he did in the Loopin' Chewie game.

Or that epic battle when our favorite heroes and villains lined up on a checkerboard field and battled it out in a real-life version of chess in Star Wars Chess. It was very polite of Darth Vader to step aside when R2-D2 moved onto his space, then sat aside while he watched the rest of the "battle" play out. It was even more surprising that he was willing to be the "Queen".

:P

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, TalkPolite said:

Lol. Imagine, complaining about FFG having no imagination, but not being able to image a story for what’s going on in front of you. 

If you can’t bring a story to the games you’re playing, then maybe the problem isn’t with the game. 

If your a fan, you’ll make it work because it’s more Star Wars, and that’s Awesome. 

But if you got Luke Skywalker mini things get more rígid than if you just get a generic commander. And if you get multipart kits things get better to customize, and if you got inspirin texts about batles om planets you didn't know, you got inspired and you got freedom to make your army as you wish.

We are able, in 40k, to have the "Riccardio's CAPTAIN", that has got a blue Standard with a crow symbol, that usually carries a red power sword and has got a jump pack, and go to a competition with your blue captain and persons enjoy YOUR army... how do you do the same when your army has a Luke Skywalker and you find exactly the same Luke Skywalker in front of you?

Named models go against diversity, rigid cards and lack of lore go against variety.

For example, in Star wars Battle miniatures there were a couple of diferent aproaches to imperial units fighting against imperial units: one of them was that stormtroopers that remained loyal to the empire when he fell in Endor had a red dot in their helmet and used to fight against what they called "traitors"... and THAT suddenly became a part of known star wars lore, because it was officially printed in an oficial Star Wars game!

When they had the need for a good way to distinguish between a couple of AT-AT's in battle (yes, you were able to bring AT-AT's in that game) the "unit marking" system that the empire had adopted to distinguish between their diferent vehicles became a reality and that was a contribution to the official cannon, so since then, seeing markings in stormtrooper armor AND in imperial vehicles is widely known... and that led to a lot of red and blue markings, lines, squares or whatever in stormtrooper and AT-ST's around the star wars stories, even geting to the clone troopers, known for their colour markings that added a splash of colour to the boring white armour... so West End games did that contribution... what has FFG contributed if they only give you as background a tiny text on a CARD???? 

Edited by Tubb

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Ah yes, every single product added something new to the Star Wars lore. I'll have to go update Chewbacca's wookieepedia page for that time he flew in circles in the Falcon knocking over Stormtroopers like he did in the Loopin' Chewie game.

Or that epic battle when our favorite heroes and villains lined up on a checkerboard field and battled it out in a real-life version of chess in Star Wars Chess. It was very polite of Darth Vader to step aside when R2-D2 moved onto his space, then sat aside while he watched the rest of the "battle" play out. It was even more surprising that he was willing to be the "Queen".

:P

That's EXACTLY the problem, lots of persons around here are thinking about this game and considering it as a kind of complicated chess... no background needed, no story to tell, no need to paint... just some plastic tokens displayed in a 2d board that allow you to beat someone using superior knowledge of a bunch of cards and statistics...

Edited by Tubb

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Why would we ever need a lore books for legion? 40K needed to do it because the lore was made to fit what was in the game. A Star Wars game doesn't need that. Most all of us here know exactly what planet XYZ is like so it's kinda pointless

No, you are completely wrong in my opinion. Sure you would discover A LOT of things you don't know about star wars and their planets and armies if some kind of book was done...

Why do you think 40k needed it more than Star Wars? You could perfectly play a game of 40k without knowing what the heck was that unit or that alien... but you LIKED it to know... when you got a whole page with the description of a unit and just a couple of lines explaining their stats, you know that the designer CARES about the lore and stories that surrounds them.

And what about second world war games? Thay also got A LOT of lore and background so that you feel that you are taking part in a real battle, with decisions that gives you an outcome and because you kNOW what your soldiers are doing or which unit they are from, and even know why they got a bull symbol in their shoulder... and you PAINT the bull in their shoulder because you WANT to know your army, and make it yours and different... anyone around here has thought what their white snowtroopers are doing when they go to protect a vaporator in Tatooine??? You can invent whatever, but there is no oficial support to this... what they have supported so far is "buy whatever is new because it will be better and don't care if it fits your wanted army, it doesn't matter if you paint it, and don't make terrain because a printed 2d mat will be nice...

Edited by Tubb

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18 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

 

The Sequel Trilogy (Why can't it have a cool name too?) will likely be better flushed out to add to the game well before then. There's also Scum, which I know a lot of people want. Aside from the new Luke and Vader, they haven't repeated a single unit or hero so far.

Well, to get a cool name it has to be cool itself first :) 

I like the idea of Scum, but only once there’s the construct of subfactions well in place. For example, in my wish list Scum faction, you can have only one subfaction worth of special forces, commanders, etc, but some of the scum corps or support may be universal. The Hutts and Black Sun can both have “generic alien band of mercenaries”, but you won’t have Jabba and Xizor in a list.

 

7 minutes ago, Tubb said:

But if you got Luke Skywalker mini things get more rígid than if you just get a generic commander. And if you get multipart kits things get better to customize, and if you got inspirin texts about batles om planets you didn't know, you got inspired and you got freedom to make your army as you wish.

I’m hoping for an eventual Legion boxed campaign set, with customizable generic commanders you improve over time. Wishful thinking but sorta along the lines you want.

As for the rest.... paint your minis how you like and create your own backstory or explanation.

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What are you talking about? Do you remember the CM-0/93 being a big part of the defense on Hoth?

No, I don't either. That's because the crew (Derrick the sculpting director specifically) that designs the game found it in a source book and gave it a full profile, adding lore to the game. This isn't the first thing they've done it with, and it certainly won't be the last as time goes on. I think you also forget that FFG is not the only company in charge of this games development, but blame them fully for how the last 18 months have unfolded. 

The story and lore are right in front of you, yet you're content to rage about the way that other people enjoy the game. Seriously man, this isn't contributing anything to the topic at hand, so please just stop already. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, TalkPolite said:

That's because the crew (Derrick the sculpting director specifically) that designs the game found it in a source book and gave it a full profile, adding lore to the game

To add something that already existed in Star wars to the game is NOT contributing to Star wars lore. They also found in a movie the rogue one squad and "translated it" to the game. Even Battlefront videogame has contributed a lot more by inventin tons of new weapons just because they were needed for in-game balance. This is not what I mean and you know it. And it is contributing to the topic since the title reads "there it is Luke and Vader" and that new product doesn't contribute NOTHING to the lore and variety of the game and I am tired of things that I don't like, and wanted to know if someone else feels like me. And someone does.

Edited by Tubb

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2 minutes ago, Tubb said:

To add something that already existed in Star wars to the game is NOT contributing to Star wars lore. They also found in a movie the rogue one squad and "translated it" to the game. This is not what I mean and you know it. And it is contributing to the topic since the title reads "there it is Luke and Vader" and that new product doesn't contribute NOTHING to the lore of the game and I am tired of things that I don't like, and wanted to know if someone else feels like me. And someone does.

I fundamentally disagree then. They took something that we knew nothing about and gave it a profile. I now know how that weapon should function, as opposed to the source that basically said nothing. 

And no, you aren't contributing. The release was rumored because of a shot from Alliance (the US distributor), and this post was meant to say "Hey! These things are happening now". This piece adds a lot to the game for casual and competitive players alike - so you can take your dislike of apparently the entire game and find somewhere else to find people who feel the same. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, TalkPolite said:

I fundamentally disagree then. They took something that we knew nothing about and gave it a profile. I now know how that weapon should function, as opposed to the source that basically said nothing. 

And no, you aren't contributing. The release was rumored because of a shot from Alliance (the US distributor), and this post was meant to say "Hey! These things are happening now". This piece adds a lot to the game for casual and competitive players alike - so you can take your dislike of apparently the entire game and find somewhere else to find people who feel the same. 

So people can come here and talk about what they like of the new product, how it will open up new game options and how the new metadupersuper vader will change their world, but If I think that the product is not what I expected them to release because the game is going to a course i don't like with too much named characters and no inventive news, can't I explain?

It is the third time you ask me to stop and go elsewhere, TalkPolite is a joke isn't?

Edited by Tubb

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