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bleezy

Why doesn't Armada have a living rulebook?

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Twilight Imperium, a stand-alone board game with no expansions, has a living rulebook. Star Wars: Armada, a collectible miniatures game, does not. It's been 4 years since wave 2 and the rulebook doesn't even tell you what a Contain token is for Christ's sake. What gives?

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The wiki is a fantastic source of material.

I've also asked the same question Bleezy, and I think a living rulebook would be amazing for SW:A. I'm currently working on making my own for SWAE.

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I would honestly pay for a rulebook similar to other non-GW miniatures games that releases after these two Sizeable Ships come out. Before the CW is introduced so that we have all the rules, errata, ect. In one book.

****, I might try to design it myself.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Ling27 said:

I would honestly pay for a rulebook similar to other non-GW miniatures games that releases after these two Sizeable Ships come out. Before the CW is introduced so that we have all the rules, errata, ect. In one book.

****, I might try to design it myself.

You'll find every entry from RRG, FAQ, all relevant stuff from "Learn to Play", all texts from booklets at the wiki. There are the complete rules set for Corellian Conflict and Spector Fleet Rules. All things linked and categorised.

Go there, type in "Rules" into the search bar or anything you're looking for. Then tell me what you're missing!

Edited by Triangular

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10 hours ago, Triangular said:

You'll find every entry from RRG, FAQ, all relevant stuff from "Learn to Play", all texts from booklets at the wiki. There are the complete rules set for Corellian Conflict and Spector Fleet Rules. All things linked and categorised.

Go there, type in "Rules" into the search bar or anything you're looking for. Then tell me what you're missing!

This is all fine, but there's no reason in the world we should need a wiki to keep track of rules.  FFG is, in theory, a professional company.  Why isn't the rulebook updated every year or so.  They don't even need to print it - just upload new PDFs to the Armada page.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/18/2019 at 11:17 AM, bleezy said:

Twilight Imperium, a stand-alone board game with no expansions, has a living rulebook. Star Wars: Armada, a collectible miniatures game, does not. It's been 4 years since wave 2 and the rulebook doesn't even tell you what a Contain token is for Christ's sake. What gives?

The answer is in your own statement. Four years ago, by and large FFG wasn't doing living rules for their games. That's changed, obviously, with X-Wing and Legion most notably. However, Legion was a whole new game, and X-Wing got it with a reboot of the game. It would likely require some kind of major product launch to get that kind of attention for Armada.

/glances at Clone Wars

Edited by Truthiness

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37 minutes ago, JauntyChapeau said:

This is all fine, but there's no reason in the world we should need a wiki to keep track of rules.  FFG is, in theory, a professional company.  Why isn't the rulebook updated every year or so.  They don't even need to print it - just upload new PDFs to the Armada page.

In my eyes a wiki is the better way to organise the knowledge for a miniatures game.

Let's talk about Legion. (I don't know X-wing.) It's a game that has got nearly two new units a month and with every new unit a whole new set of keywords and rules. It has a "living" rulebook. That means they don't print the RRG, but let you download it. "Living" means they made 4-5 versions since February 2018; roundabout 1 update every 4 months. Still the rulebook is always way behind the new stuff. Even after the release of units there often is no official wording for new rules and keywords.

And even if the rules are up to date, to look things up in the pdf is clumsy. Text is in 2 columns, so you have to go up and down, when reading a page. Searching is a mess (and no auto-conclude). Links are only at the end of an entry or at the end of the pdf. New rules are in another color, which is fine, when it comes out, but not so much useful after 3 month using it. Searching is horrible. Entries are often awfully redundant.

A solid structured wiki is easier to use. You have a really good possibility to search for cards or rules. Links are in the text, so you can just click at something you want to know more about. Every card or rule or expansion is categorized, so you can get an overview over the according items quite easily. Searching is easy, you see suggestions after typing three letters.

I don't know why anyone in the 21st century would prefer a dpf over a wiki?

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2 minutes ago, Triangular said:

In my eyes a wiki is the better way to organise the knowledge for a miniatures game.

Let's talk about Legion. (I don't know X-wing.) It's a game that has got nearly two new units a month and with every new unit a whole new set of keywords and rules. It has a "living" rulebook. That means they don't print the RRG, but let you download it. "Living" means they made 4-5 versions since February 2018; roundabout 1 update every 4 months. Still the rulebook is always way behind the new stuff. Even after the release of units there often is no official wording for new rules and keywords.

And even if the rules are up to date, to look things up in the pdf is clumsy. Text is in 2 columns, so you have to go up and down, when reading a page. Searching is a mess (and no auto-conclude). Links are only at the end of an entry or at the end of the pdf. New rules are in another color, which is fine, when it comes out, but not so much useful after 3 month using it. Searching is horrible. Entries are often awfully redundant.

A solid structured wiki is easier to use. You have a really good possibility to search for cards or rules. Links are in the text, so you can just click at something you want to know more about. Every card or rule or expansion is categorized, so you can get an overview over the according items quite easily. Searching is easy, you see suggestions after typing three letters.

I don't know why anyone in the 21st century would prefer a dpf over a wiki?

Is it a FFG Official Wiki?  If not, 'I looked it up in the wiki' is going to be insufficient for use in any organized event or as a way to definitively solve a rules issue.  A master rulebook that includes an Errata section is necessary.

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35 minutes ago, JauntyChapeau said:

Is it a FFG Official Wiki?  If not, 'I looked it up in the wiki' is going to be insufficient for use in any organized event or as a way to definitively solve a rules issue.  A master rulebook that includes an Errata section is necessary.

You don't look up stuff at wikipedia? That's not "official", but a very good way to start a research, isn't it?

All entries in the Armada wiki are direct quotations of rulebooks or FAQ. If you find something here, you know what you have to look for. And if you're smart you just rely on the info as long as nobody doubts it.

A master rulebook would be fine. But as it is we have to work with the things we got.

(Another way would be that FFG pays me for my work at the wiki, what would make if official, I guess. 😄)

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2 hours ago, JauntyChapeau said:

Is it a FFG Official Wiki?  If not, 'I looked it up in the wiki' is going to be insufficient for use in any organized event or as a way to definitively solve a rules issue.  A master rulebook that includes an Errata section is necessary.

The wiki even though not official cites where it gets the rulings so you can just look it up yourself. I have done this with multiple things as long as it sources where it gets the information from an official source there should no problem because if the wiki is quetioned you go straight to the source material that it cites and then it becomes unquestionable, with page numbers and everything its quite nice to look up a rule when you can't remember where that rule was located. 

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The fan-made armada wiki is a fantastic resource. But the quality of its graphics is scattershot, not infrequently using whatever random, low-res sneak pic somewhat grabbed from a video preview stream. If FFG is going to abdicate their responsibility to fans, it would be great if they provided high-quality graphics and reference material to the fans to use. :)

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3 hours ago, ShoutingMan said:

The fan-made armada wiki is a fantastic resource. But the quality of its graphics is scattershot, not infrequently using whatever random, low-res sneak pic somewhat grabbed from a video preview stream. If FFG is going to abdicate their responsibility to fans, it would be great if they provided high-quality graphics and reference material to the fans to use. :)

I'm just about to write an email and ask for material like icons and card images. I only don't know which department I should adress it to?

Any suggestions?

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On 7/18/2019 at 9:17 AM, bleezy said:

Twilight Imperium, a stand-alone board game with no expansions, has a living rulebook. Star Wars: Armada, a collectible miniatures game, does not. It's been 4 years since wave 2 and the rulebook doesn't even tell you what a Contain token is for Christ's sake. What gives?

I figure the answer is licensing.

TI is in house. FFG can do what they want, basically. 

When FFG negotiated to make Armada, basically, the rules document is (c) LFL and Disney, and thus needs to be approved to be changed in any way.

“Living rules documents” agreements are new things, and Armada doesn’t have one yet, after being pioneered by Legion and followed up with a major XWing Rerelease/revamp.

 

Ive had issues with other games groups I’ve worked on with that before.

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There is also the stigma of GWs rule book practicies that internal marketing might have recommended staying away from until recently. I dropped 40k for years because of the change to 8th ed (which happened while I was deployed, not paying attention to releases, after I had just bought all the 7th stuff)

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