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Rytackle

Fly Better Podcast: Pace of Play

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Hey FFG Forums! I don't usually spam the cast here but this is an issue I feel pretty strongly about, and I encourage continued conversation about it. How many turns of X-Wing are you getting through in 75 minutes? This week special guest Dión Morales joins us as we talk about the pace of play in X-Wing. Farmer (me) believes that more and more X-Wing games are reaching time, and not enough rounds are being played. What is the cause behind this? We try to find an answer.

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[00:00:00] Intros
[00:06:00] Pace of Play
[01:30:00] The Krayts vs Dee

Come join us at the Fly Better Grand Championship in Vegas January 24-26 2020!

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2 hours ago, MajorJuggler said:

My first intro to pace of play was back in wave 4 when my 64 point, 8 hull Fat Han lost to a 65 point, 1 hull Fat Han at time, in a 60 minute round. Oops!

Such sweet sweet memories...

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Posted (edited)

Great podcast. I agree the rounds are slower over the course of a game.

I haven't done an extensive study but I think less squads are getting tabled and much more games going to time.

  • Should the scheduled game time be extended 10 minutes?
  • 7 factions, greater squad variation
  • number crunching using half points considerations
  • no points printed on cards (need for digital device management to keep track of points through the course of the game)
  • Use of app/spreadsheet that manages points?
  • more options, more complexity in 2.0
  • could games be timed? could players be allocated a max number of minutes per turn based on number of ships in their squad?
Edited by Da_Brown_Bomber

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Welcome to what balance looks like? You no longer have the 3 Rock Paper Scissors that can pretty much table everything else in 75 minutes or less. And there’s only so many rounds you can squeeze in, especially now that 3 ship lists are a bare minimum, it takes longer to move more plastic around the table. We also happen to be in a “tank” meta, and as long as munitions keep going up, and stuff like angled deflectors keeps getting printed, that isn’t going to change to much.

theres a whole bunch of reasons were seeing less tablings in 2.0, but it was common late in 1.0 as well (provided you weren’t playing a Rock Paper Scissors list). I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. (Not that we shouldn’t discourage slow play, but that has a bit different meaning now that flying 4/5/6 ship lists is more common. 

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It is not that much of a mystery to me.  Towards the end, many of the older shop started to get increases in HP (hull/shields) through interesting means...like titles and cards like integrated astromech, etc.  When 2.0 came out, most of these health increases got baked right in.  In some cases, ships just got straight increases in health (Tie Phantom/defender).  The only ship that went down that I can think of is the Ghost.  This was compounded by the significant reduction (much applauded) in red dice and passive modifiers that made those attacks more effective.

So, they left some of the late 1.0 response to power creep, while significantly dialing back the power creep it was meant to counter.

Not much of a mystery to me...

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Heh, played in a local tourney with my Dead Men Flying list and all games went 200 points in one direction (3 times for me. The last time... 😢

 

Feels bad when you're convincingly in first place and go tumbling down to 4th xD

 

Oh well, at least I got to do some scum Shenanigans!

 

List for context. Trick should be obvious if you know how Vizago works ;)

Dead Men Flying

(38) Cartel Marauder [Kihraxz Fighter]
(2) Deadman's Switch
(3) Contraband Cybernetics
Points: 43

(38) Cartel Marauder [Kihraxz Fighter]
(2) Deadman's Switch
(5) Cloaking Device
Points: 45

(37) Torkil Mux [HWK-290 Light Freighter]
(1) Cikatro Vizago
(2) Deadman's Switch
Points: 40

(33) Unkar Plutt [Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug]
(2) Deadman's Switch
(6) Afterburners
Points: 41

(30) Ahhav [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 30

Total points: 199

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Posted (edited)
On 7/16/2019 at 12:16 PM, Rytackle said:

 

FlyBetterBoLS.png

 

So, do you think things will speed up as people get more comfortable or will the games need to get longer? Would 90min games be too long? I play 90 minute-ish games at my casual night, but only two games a night and it works for me. With a 15 min break that is 4 games in 7 hours. 

Edited by BenDay

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Another neat advantage of knowing the pace of play is determining the value of recharging upgrades, as soon as you figure out the average rounds in 2.0 will you post the results?  

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36 minutes ago, BenDay said:

Another neat advantage of knowing the pace of play is determining the value of recharging upgrades, as soon as you figure out the average rounds in 2.0 will you post the results?  

That's an important point here. A crackshot in a 5 turn game has a different value than in a 15turn game

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8 hours ago, RejjeN said:

Heh, played in a local tourney with my Dead Men Flying list and all games went 200 points in one direction (3 times for me. The last time... 😢

 

Feels bad when you're convincingly in first place and go tumbling down to 4th xD

 

Oh well, at least I got to do some scum Shenanigans!

 

List for context. Trick should be obvious if you know how Vizago works ;)

Dead Men Flying

(38) Cartel Marauder [Kihraxz Fighter]
(2) Deadman's Switch
(3) Contraband Cybernetics
Points: 43

(38) Cartel Marauder [Kihraxz Fighter]
(2) Deadman's Switch
(5) Cloaking Device
Points: 45

(37) Torkil Mux [HWK-290 Light Freighter]
(1) Cikatro Vizago
(2) Deadman's Switch
Points: 40

(33) Unkar Plutt [Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug]
(2) Deadman's Switch
(6) Afterburners
Points: 41

(30) Ahhav [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 30

Total points: 199

Looks neat. Ive read the Vizago card. I still have no idea what the plan is here. Care to share?

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Posted (edited)

Just to put the number of turns in perspective, miniature war games, I have played, are in the range of 6 turns and take 2.5 hours with setup. Miniature wargame tournaments were 3 to 4 games a tournament and worked fine. 

Edited by BenDay

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39 minutes ago, TBot said:

Looks neat. Ive read the Vizago card. I still have no idea what the plan is here. Care to share?

Cik swaps the cloak to another ship in the endphase circumventing the planning phase check on the device for the cloaked ship.

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13 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Cik swaps the cloak to another ship in the endphase circumventing the planning phase check on the device for the cloaked ship.

Hehe, nope. But that's what I usually do with him 😛

14 hours ago, TBot said:

Looks neat. Ive read the Vizago card. I still have no idea what the plan is here. Care to share?

The trick is in the name. Using vizago to circumvent the "only one upgrade of the same name" rule to make 2 Khiraxz fighters with double bombs :D

 

Unfortunately the only time they exploded on something it was on my own ship(s) xD

 

But I think the intimidation factor was in play so.. Still useful maybe..? Mayor list weakness was the two turn settup. Last opponent capitalized on it (and my bad deployment) so I couldn't separate my ships in time.

 

Apologies for derailing the topic discussion...

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46 minutes ago, RejjeN said:

Hehe, nope. But that's what I usually do with him 😛

The trick is in the name. Using vizago to circumvent the "only one upgrade of the same name" rule to make 2 Khiraxz fighters with double bombs :D

 

Unfortunately the only time they exploded on something it was on my own ship(s) xD

 

But I think the intimidation factor was in play so.. Still useful maybe..? Mayor list weakness was the two turn settup. Last opponent capitalized on it (and my bad deployment) so I couldn't separate my ships in time.

 

Apologies for derailing the topic discussion...

Still adjusting to the slot switch on the Kihraxz's so I missed that you had equipped 2 Illicits on them. That does make it intersting

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