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Hordeoverseer

The Worst Investigator?

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I used 39 exp Rita to beat Guardians of the Abyss for the first time. That's after destroying FA with her. She is possibly one of the strongest investigators, imo. From the earlier presented top 6 list, 4 of them were survivors (Lola is a survivor acting like a neutral) and so I wonder if survivors just get a bad rap.

I will admit, Calvin is the only investigator I've actively felt like a detriment to the team while playing, and I've beaten every campaign with a different Lola deck. Lola works when your team squirrels at the shiny during investigator pick and without strategizing. Lola and Jenny are both really good "fill or feed" types. 

So my vote is Calvin, an investigator I was constantly apologizing for.

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23 hours ago, GravyAnecdote said:

Great thread everyone! I took a data-driven approach and wrote about it here:

https://decipheredreality.com/investigator/who-is-the-worst-investigator-in-arkham-horror-the-card-game/

(also - this is a new blog! I'll be writing about the data behind AH:LCG. Let me know what you think!)

I'm not sure that "decks per day" is a useful metric for determining the "best" or "worst" investigator. You'll note that the top four investigators in your chart are from TCU, despite them being quite possibly the hardest investigators to play properly (which would normally make them seem "weak" to casual players). Meanwhile, Rex is floating around in the middle, even though pre-taboo he was pretty much the solution to the game. And, of all the investigators below Lola on that chart, I've only seen Skids and Calvin ever get put on the same tier as her.

The data's obviously skewed:

  • The TCU investigators, sans Marie, are at the top because they've spent 100% of their lifespan as the latest hotness.
  • Akachi is at the bottom because her level 0 deckbuilding is basically "Jim without flex slots" or "Mateo without bonus experience"; she's powerful, but not particularly interesting to build.
  • Lola is not at the bottom because her deckbuilding presents an interesting challenge in and of itself.

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Some contentious picks on my list, for sure.   But, what no one has tried to do yet is come up with their own bottom 5 (or 6) list.   I read lots of comments saying "oh, the worst investigator is this,  or it's that..."  -in almost every case, these choices were on my list as well, of course-     but I havent seen a full list of 5 or 6.    What you'll probably find, as I did...  is that it's not that easy to come up with.  It's much easier to come up with 1 investigator who you dont like for whatever reason and say, well it's them.     So my challenge to you, to anyone who is foaming at the mouth about my inclusion of Rita, or Carolyn is this:

Come up with your own bottom 5 list.  Think about the role of each character,  the meta, the general usefulness of each character, and tell me... who deserves to be on the list instead.   If you don't agree that Carolyn or Rita or Pete is bottom 5... then there must  be another investigator who I didn't include that takes their spot instead.   I think you'll find as I did that most investigators have some redeeming qualities, and you'll be thinking to yourself  -oh, they don't deserve to be on the bottom-   or -well, I had a really good game with this person- or  -well, they were good in this campaign-,   but when you're really pressed....  you still have to put 6 people on that list.  

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I personally don't think any list is an accurate representation of the "worst investigators in the game".  Just by looking at your list, I can see you don't really like using Survivors much, and thats ok.  Perhaps the Survivor class doesn't fit your playstyle, and being a co-op game, Arkham is all about playing the game to your style rather than the deck that will competitively stomp the competition. 

 

But in the same vein, I do believe and have tested that Survivors are very powerful in this game.  Its possible to solo with all the survivors, though you do need some luck with Calvin not losing the game to his weakness.  They have the tools to keep your tempo up when it should be going down and that helps when you are on a clock. 

 

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2 hours ago, awp832 said:

. . .   but when you're really pressed....  you still have to put 6 people on that list.  

Well . . . no. You don't.
And no, someone does not have to be there.
Just because any particular individual prefers one Investigator over another, or has done better building a deck for one particular Investigator over another, does not mean that any Investigator has to be put on a list as the "worst" Investigator.

And there is no "foaming at the mouth", because my disagreement is not over who is on the list, but that I am contending with the very concept of the list in the first place. I think it is a meaningless concept within the roles, the meta, and the general usefulness, because all of those are constantly evolving.
As such, at best I would say that you could qualify some Investigators as not having their full potential yet, but that is the furthest I would go. And that of course would consistently heavily bias against the newest released Investigators. Preston would be a prime example of that, with the Favor cards being released one at a time heavily impacting his deckbuilding options and utility.

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6 hours ago, awp832 said:

if that's how you feel, then frankly, this entire thread just isn't for you.   

I think that is up to the creator of the thread. 

Also, I think it is a very subjective topic.  I can make a good deck/build with any of the non-promo investigators(though Silas is actually easy to do).  I am sure there are quite a few people on this forum who can do so as well.  What it comes down to is playstyle knowledge of the investigator you are using.  Everyone who says making a deck for Calvin is hard has probably only given it one or zero tries and gave up or is just intimidated by the card. 

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I also don’t think there is an objective answer. There is no “bottom five” because the deck build and scenarios are contributing factors. There are no 5 investigators that are going to underperform every time except MAYBE Lola simply became her health pools are low and she is incredibly restricted each round. Even then I still think she can outperform other investigators in certain situations. You can do a tier list if you want but you can’t objectively put 5 investigators at the bottom. It’s not really how the game works. And I would never put Carolyn or Rita there. But I also never solo game.

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On 7/19/2019 at 10:23 PM, rsdockery said:

I'm not sure that "decks per day" is a useful metric for determining the "best" or "worst" investigator. You'll note that the top four investigators in your chart are from TCU, despite them being quite possibly the hardest investigators to play properly (which would normally make them seem "weak" to casual players). Meanwhile, Rex is floating around in the middle, even though pre-taboo he was pretty much the solution to the game. And, of all the investigators below Lola on that chart, I've only seen Skids and Calvin ever get put on the same tier as her.

The data's obviously skewed:

  • The TCU investigators, sans Marie, are at the top because they've spent 100% of their lifespan as the latest hotness.
  • Akachi is at the bottom because her level 0 deckbuilding is basically "Jim without flex slots" or "Mateo without bonus experience"; she's powerful, but not particularly interesting to build.
  • Lola is not at the bottom because her deckbuilding presents an interesting challenge in and of itself.

 

I agree, popularity and character strength don't correlate. Case in point: 

  • Jenny has way more decklists than anybody else. This is a symptom of her tremendous flexibility. She can use her faction cards to lean into whatever role she desires. Even so, she is a far cry from "strongest investigator in the game", although she is definitely up there. I think all these decklists are from the hype when the game was new and people trying her out on differently specialized ways.
  • Akachi has so and so many decklists, but she can be outrageously powerful, definitely does not belong below the 50% line. This lack of decklists for her is definitely because her deckbuilding is a riddle that's been completely cracked and isn't particularly unique among Mystics; All the spell assets and all the cards that make spell assets work better.
  • That said lots of people are really scared of Calvin and it takes a special kind of basketcase to like him, yet from my experience playing with him he's rather quite disappointing, he is weird, and its great that this game has room for weirdness like him.

I love these stats and I like seeing them, but drawing concrete data from them is Homeopathic at best.

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To respond to OP.

Most of the characters are pretty balanced, although making many of them work is a deckbuilding challenge in of itself. It's very easy to get a Roland deck that falls over and fails to do much of anything, if you built an Akachi without Rite of seeking and Shrivelling you dont belong in this faction, get out.

Also a few dudes are sensitive as ****, and can shatter like glass if you make a misstep, for example Rita or Roland if they take horror. That doesn't make them too bad characters though, Rita for example is robust as heck, especially with Peter Sylvestre virtually printed in her deckbuilding.

 

If you point a gun at me head and make me choose, then its Lola or Calvin, and I'dd end on Lola. She doesn't have an ability (rather, it's a weakness, she's got a **** weakness printed on her Investigator card!) and the deck-building doesn't amount to the cool combos you might imagine possible. 

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I haven’t played all of the investigators, maybe only 2/3 of them, but would ask if we are supposed to  factor in the element of wether we are using an investigator for solo or group play. In a collaborative situation, for example, Rita was pretty useful to our group.  She largely evaded, sometimes helping out with Ornate Bow. But she also often pulled enemies away from others giving them the chance to achieve certain objectives in a given round. That being said, I wouldn’t  consider her for a solo investigator. 

Of those I have played, Lola to me felt the weakest.  Kind of “More is less.” She seemed too stretched in every direction to be very effective. But I was still relatively new to the game when I played her. 

 

Edited by Mimi61

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On 9/8/2019 at 5:25 AM, C2K said:

Surely Lola has to be easier to play with the dual faction cards in the environment now. 

It makes her slightly easier to build, sure, if you have trouble fulfilling her minimum deckbuilding requirements. But the issue is that Tennessee Sour Mash (0) and Scroll of Secrets (0) are both complete rubbish, and Grisly Totem (0) is marginal at best (especially given Lola's restriction on committing/activating cards from classes). So that leaves Enchanted Blade and .45 Thompson as the "good" options, which makes it easier to play her as a fighter since you can use weapons when in two different class identities.

Then the problem becomes, how do you upgrade? If you upgrade into Rogue .45 Thompson (say), the benefits of the dual class for your deckbuilding go away, potentially making upgrading extremely awkward, and you are no longer able to use it from either class role. You could solve the second problem by upgrading into Timeworn Brand instead, but then the first problem becomes even worse. And if you are going for a fighty build, you might be stuck with the level 0 versions until you get the rest of your deck laid out correctly to ensure you aren't breaching your deckbuilding requirements. And then, why not just play another, better fighter, one with a stronger base combat, a stronger health/sanity total, etc.?

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Speaking of Lola and dual-class cards:

What happens if you draw with Crisis of Identity into a dual-class card?

Quote

Then, discard the top card of your deck. Switch your role to the class of the discarded card (if the discarded card is a weakness, switch your role to neutral).

Can you choose one of the two classes? Do you go to neutral? Or are do you have both roles at once?

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3 hours ago, Astrophil84 said:

Speaking of Lola and dual-class cards:

What happens if you draw with Crisis of Identity into a dual-class card?

Can you choose one of the two classes? Do you go to neutral? Or are do you have both roles at once?

I haven't seen an official ruling, but I think the most logical way to handle it would be that you choose one of the two classes.

The multi-class cards rules are explicit about them not being neutral cards, so you'd need an extra rule for Crisis of Identity to treat them as neutral cards.

While I don't think there is anything that says Lola can't be in two roles at once, everything is written as if she can only ever be in one role. I think it's safe to assume that this is what is intended.

Therefore, since multi-class cards count as both their classes I'd say you are forced to pick between them.

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