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Supernatural Reflexes

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Hello Community!

What do you think about "Supernatural Reflexes"? Could it be the best Force Upgrade so far?

Personally, I used to put this on Luke Skywalker sometimes, when the costs were still much lower.

Honestly, 12 points for "Supernatural Reflexes" seemed okay to me, but this was still far from being an auto-include for me.

Nowadays it costs 24 points for Luke... but it doesn't feel remotely powerful enough to use it for this price. Isn't it just a worse version of the step any Phantom can do regularly? Apart from that, Luke is getting to expensive...

Do you think the pricing for "Supernatural Reflexes" is okay and do you still use it for 24 points?

 

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Posted (edited)

it was too good, it has been priced out of competitive play because it was an auto-include. I kind of dislike the way FFG is balancing things by effectively banning overpowered game pieces from play... but eh. At least this is better than 1.0's ridiculous patching system.

Edited by President Jyrgunkarrd

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44 minutes ago, Okapi said:

It's a lot of fun on Inquisitors (8 points), and I'd imagine it could work on Mace (12 points) too. Boost, sloop and grab a new force token.

This. It remains very good value for lower initiative pilots, because it's actually become cheaper.

Inquisitors are probably the best use for it - Jedi Knights are okay, but you're only spending the points to 'pull' your free boost or roll before your manoeuvre instead of after. That's still not a bad deal but it's less impressive than giving it to someone without Fine-Tuned Controls.

Inquisitors make the upgrade amazing. Firstly, you can boost or roll before moving. Secondly, they have boost/link/focus and roll/link/focus, and a pretty snazzy blue dial - so you can use supernatural reflexes, link to a red focus, clear the stress, then target lock or evade and have a (these days quite rare) stack of two tokens.

On Luke - maybe. It is eye-wateringly expensive on higher initiative pilots, but it suits Luke well because (a) he won't 'run out' of force before the shooting starts, and (b) it allows you to play tunes with your S-foils; because of the activation order you can use supernatural reflexes to boost, then open your S-foils before your manoeuvre so you're not stuck with reduced firepower.

 

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Love it on the v1. At 8pt for the Inquisitor, it's basically ridiculous. Cheaper than Advanced Sensors and so much better.

Moving up the Inits, 16pt for I4 is prohibitive and somewhat overpriced. I still use it on 7th Sister, simply because the v1 gets so much more mileage from it. It's not exactly cost effective but you love what you love....

Feel like 12-14 would be ok at this level.

24 and 32pt for I5 and 6 is just nope. Which I'm vaguely fine with, it can be kinda broke at high Init. I would still like it to be at least an expensive choice here. Dropping it 6pt or so would leave it still mostly cost ineffective but would bring it down to a point where you might consider actually using it.

Ultimately, even at 12pt all round, it wasn't breaking any records, so I'm unsure what need there was for it to go up so much at I5 and 6. Jedi?

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It was....reasonable at the original price point when the only ships that could use it were T-65 Luke, Vader in the x1 and the Inquisitors (generic, 7th Sister, Grand Inq) in the v1. None of those ships were going to set the world on fire. However, SuperKylo was utterly terrifying due to the combination of a very fast dial and a ship ability which meant he could double-reposition while still getting a 'normal' action, and had the cost not gone up it would be stapled to all the Jedi.

If you absolutely have to have your high initiative ace with the ability, you still can, it'll just be expensive. Me, I'm happy with Supernatural Inquisitors. They are such fun to fly!

 

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1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

Ultimately, even at 12pt all round, it wasn't breaking any records, so I'm unsure what need there was for it to go up so much at I5 and 6. Jedi?

Vader and Kylo Ren, primarily (the cost shot up before the Republic was released).

Kylo can chain the boost into a barrel roll (or vice-versa) and has a blue dial making the resulting stress a joke, whilst Vader can chain the barrel roll into a focus or target lock, essentially giving him a sort of super-duper-advanced-sensors on top of the 'normal' effect of the force power. With the TIE/x1 being so critically dependent on getting target locks, that makes it a much, much more valuable ability.

 

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Yeah, superkylo is essentially broken.  Unless you can cover literally every possible combination of boost, roll, and 5 straight in basically any order AND get the kill when he arrives, you're stuffed unless you can just kill his allies and not lose too many ships before time.  Or stress him in advance.

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Yeah, snr was just dumb. Isn't quite in the league of gunner Luke, but it makes playing force users FAR too easy

If it at least stopped you from taking additional actions, ala a modified version of Adv Sensors, then maybe it could've been priced to see play 

 

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5 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

If it at least stopped you from taking additional actions, ala a modified version of Adv Sensors, then maybe it could've been priced to see play 

 

Stay tuned for Wave V, then

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I kinda feel like SNR is rightly priced.

Really expensive on High Init, but it also has the potential to be absurdly powerful on those ships.  Maybe it's a little overpriced, but I think it's far better than it being underpriced.

Meanwhile, it's just so dang cool on generic Inquisitors.

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Yeah, snr was just dumb. Isn't quite in the league of gunner Luke, but it makes playing force users FAR too easy

If it at least stopped you from taking additional actions, ala a modified version of Adv Sensors, then maybe it could've been priced to see play 

 

This is probably true of higher Init pilots. The old 'give myself all the options and ensure I only ever have complete board knowledge before I select from them'.

But there is more to the game than that. I've flown a fair bit of pre-positioning lower Init ships against high Init opposition and the ability to make your final position uncertain for them makes for a fascinating game from both angles.

I understand the contempt for enabling high Init to operate with full knowledge and limitless options, but that's not all wrapped up in certain upgrades, as much as it is simply an Init thing.

FFG have done a fair job of limiting the zaniest movement shenanigans to I4 and under. As long as it is allowed there, and not too overpriced, I'm happy and feel very guilt free :D

Honestly find I6 SNR a bit dull. Rather have the risk than just continually opt out of bad trades and drag the game out into nothingness.

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, President Jyrgunkarrd said:

I kind of dislike the way FFG is balancing things by effectively banning overpowered game pieces from play... but eh.

I have to disagree. FFG hasn't banned anything. In the case of SNR, they have simply informed the community that if you want to have complete board-state knowledge before you dodge all the arcs on your I6 then you have to pay out the nose for it, which is how it should be.

 

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

it's just so dang cool on generic Inquisitors.

SNR Inquisitors are really fun. I like dropping Prockets on them too. It's a great way to spend 50 points.

Edited by Skitch_

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Posted (edited)

Honestly I'm going to be trying it out on Grand Quiz. I know that puts him up to 80 points, which is crazy expensive for a fragile 2-attack, but it combos really well with his blues and linked actions to create a fantastic action economy and token stack or double-modded attack, and if you learn the hit-and-fade, you can be attacking for 3 every other round too. It's really the only ship that has the opportunity to leverage action economy from both force and stress, which is a point not to be missed. And it will never have to take damage from SR either.

Maybe missiles can help with punch. I'm not sure. He'd hate to run into anything I6 though. Maybe add SR Vader for craziness or Soontir and support or a miniswarm for more balance. Not sure what to complement him with TBH.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, svelok said:

I don't want supernatural reflexes to be good

Honestly, I don't want any upgrade or pilot to be "good" in the sense everyone typically uses it in. I dislike the idea of a go-to in general, and the more potentially abusable a mechanic is (SR, Gunner Luke, Scum Gunner Han, etc.), the more expensive, rare, and fringe I want it to be.

Supernatural Reflexes is good where it is. I could see it coming down maybe 2-4 points on I5-6 but wouldn't want it to come down by more than that, and that's as someone who loves using it. For some reason I like that there exist certain cards in the game that you really have to shell out for, but if you know what you're doing they can be really worth it.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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Just now, ClassicalMoser said:

It would be illegal though; Squads must have 2-8 ships. Throw in a torrent and make the bid 43 points.

Oh, I know.  Talking purely casual.  Also a great way to lose friends 😜.  If I was having total fun with it I would toss in 7B Obi-Wan with a droid of choice.  Does an I6 with SR really need a bid?

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1 minute ago, FatherTurin said:

Oh, I know.  Talking purely casual.  Also a great way to lose friends 😜.  If I was having total fun with it I would toss in 7B Obi-Wan with a droid of choice.  Does an I6 with SR really need a bid?

Well against my SR I5 and SR I6 list that does have a bid?

Grand Inquisitor (52)    
    Supernatural Reflexes (24)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    Cluster Missiles (5)    
    
Darth Vader (67)    
    Supernatural Reflexes (32)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    Afterburners (6)    
    
Total: 190

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1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Honestly I'm going to be trying it out on Grand Quiz. I know that puts him up to 80 points, which is crazy expensive for a fragile 2-attack, but it combos really well with his blues and linked actions to create a fantastic action economy and token stack or double-modded attack, and if you learn the hit-and-fade, you can be attacking for 3 every other round too. It's really the only ship that has the opportunity to leverage action economy from both force and stress, which is a point not to be missed. And it will never have to take damage from SR either.

Maybe missiles can help with punch. I'm not sure. He'd hate to run into anything I6 though. Maybe add SR Vader for craziness or Soontir and support or a miniswarm for more balance. Not sure what to complement him with TBH.

Had the exact same quandary with him. Become addicted to SuperV1s and his drop made me look at it again. Now only 76pt!

Obviously that's still massively expensive and makes him a prime component, well over a 3rd of the list. So it's extremely hard to balance a good squad around him.

I'm trying not to settle on the conclusion that you can only get good value from him without SNR.

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@ClassicalMoser I like putting Collision Detector on Vader to maximize your options for bailing out by supernaturaling over rocks. And in Hyperspace, Shield Upgrade/Hull Upgrade/Juke Soontir is a good wingman. I guess Lone Wolf might be good on Soontir there too. 

Next squad I'm going to fly is actually what all y'all are talking about, Super Anakin with the droid that changes dial speed. Torrent because FFG requires it. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Well against my SR I5 and SR I6 list that does have a bid?

Grand Inquisitor (52)    
    Supernatural Reflexes (24)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    Cluster Missiles (5)    
    
Darth Vader (67)    
    Supernatural Reflexes (32)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    Afterburners (6)    
    
Total: 190

Touché.

Cue Obi-Wan “This is why I hate flying!”

Edited by FatherTurin

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