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Schu81

Tie Interceptor

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Even if you take the argument that Soontir is enough for good representation of the frame on the table, it still doesn't excuse the lack of generics and there's room to have a discussion about that.

 

Personally I think most Interceptors should go down at least 1 point. Alphas at 33 means six on the table. I haven't done the math to compare it to Tie/In with howlrunner though and I think that would be an interesting comparison. 

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2 minutes ago, Octarine-08 said:

I really don't understand why the standard for a generic to be good is whether or not spamming makes a solid list.

🤨 The perception is due to that the points spent upgrading the Generic to be viable could often times be spent to switch out the Generic for a limited pilot of the same chassis with better results.

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20 minutes ago, All Shields Forward said:

it still doesn't excuse the lack of generics and there's room to have a discussion about that.

sure, but we have this discussion in several threads, again and again. Hence my "yet another thread". They get usually derailed by some people throwing around points or even list builds, as if that mattered to the discussion.

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14 minutes ago, Octarine-08 said:

I really don't understand why the standard for a generic to be good is whether or not spamming makes a solid list.

If a self-sufficient fighter is playable, it's also going to be spammable. To avoid that you'd either have to make it dependent on a support ship (maybe through terrible action econ, like the x1) or simply limit how many you can have in a squad (the way games like 40k does).

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3 hours ago, Schu81 said:

Hello community!

Honestly, I am a rebel player and I care much more about XWings and Awings than any Imperial ships.

But I have noticed that the Tie Interceptor is not present in the XWing game anymore. I haven't seen any Interceptors for months in my local gaming community.

Even though I am 100% rebel, I think the Tie Interceptor is a very beautiful and iconic ship.

It should be a good option to put on the table.

So, what could be done, to bring back the Interceptor? What are it's main problems?

From what I have heard, it dies very quickly....

Summed up by 1 good pilot, better choices at the same cost ie Strikers and the most glaringly obvious thing is.... no Carnor Jax. He would be amazing in 2.0. Except against force users. 

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44 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Yo!!  Squintophile here.

While I can't argue with the above for Standard players, Soontir =/= TIE Interceptor.  With Epic on the horizon, the fact that the TIE Interceptor sucks is very disappointing to me.

Oh boy, do I disagree. Alpha Sq. Pilots have always been good in Epic, and I maintain that they will continue to do so. Sure they're more expensive than TIE fighters but 1) they can jet across the board to get to targets or escape to safety with relative ease, 2) they have more attack dice, and 3) with the preponderance of coordinate abilities on huge ships, they were relatively easy to protect with Focus + Evade making them more durable than strikers (careful not to Autothrusters too much, or you lose out on this option). And usually your opponent is more interested in killing the big ships than the little fighters, so they get uncontested shots.

If you are worried about TIE interceptors in Epic...well, don't. 

***

Standard play on the other hand...yeah, the striker seems to have a leg up with that extra hull. If you play tournaments, yeah, striker wins. If not, who cares about the variance? You might roll triple evades three times in a row (yes, that's happened for my Alpha Sq. Pilot before).

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13 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

You might roll triple evades three times in a row (yes, that's happened for my Alpha Sq. Pilot before).

Or all three of them could roll triple blanks while your focused and you go from 3 to 0 in 3 attacks. This is the problem, more or less: they live or die based on their green dice, which is always awful.

I want to think Sabers are better than Alphas, but they have another whole suite of problems. I4 means you move last against plenty of things, which is great, but then you shoot first too. Saving your focus for defense means a wimpy attack (exactly equivalent to 2 focused dice), but spending it on the attack means you'll probably get 1-shotted.

Of course, if you successfully arc-dodge, that isn't a problem anymore. At least Sabers can try to play that game. 40 points means they're tricky to fit in a list with any kind of bid left, which means you're even moving before the other I4s (the much-derided Black Squadron Ace is a better buy because it moves in the same time frame but still gets crack shot). Meanwhile Alphas are looking around wondering what they even exist for. Sure they can double-reposition, but that's definitely overkill for a blocker. If you want a blocker, why pay 11 points more than you would for an Academy Pilot? If you want a 3-primary, why not get one that can take a shot or two?

Turr is just okay and correctly priced compared to the Saber (which is probably a tad too expensive). If there were any I5 pilots, they would make for a very fun and interesting challenge to fly, and in the mid-40s price range, they would probably be played quite a lot.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I mean, we totally can turn this into yet another thread of generics vs uniques. But I was under the impression that it wasn't OPs question or point, so I don't see why it turned there. As @svelok showed, this is by no means unique to interceptors and a general problem of the game.

I also want to point out that the first 6 months of 2.0 had an unprecendented high amount of generics. This changed back in the direction of 1.0, but it is still vastly better than 1.0 was. In other words, if wave 14 would have changed to wave 3 or 4 of 2.0, we'd all see that as massive improvement.

This is all true, but when 50% of a ship's pilots are generics, it would be kind of silly not to mention them at all in a serious discussion of the ship. Noting that the problem goes beyond the individual ship was meant as a comment in passing, not an effort to derail the thread.

But it also partly depends on what the OP meant in asking where the interceptors have all gone. Sure Soontir is everywhere, but Interceptors (plural) probably refers to more than just Soontir. The X Wing is everywhere and has multiple good options. The Y-Wing is seen quite a bit and has at least 2-3 good options. The U-Wing has several good pilots and the generics are used. All 3 of the striker pilots are good, and so are all 3 reaper pilots, and their generics are used as well. The TIE phantom has 2 incredible pilots and both generics are still quite usable. Meanwhile, the TIE Interceptor is still a 1-pilot ship, meaning few are seen on any individual table.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

 

But it also partly depends on what the OP meant in asking where the interceptors have all gone. Sure Soontir is everywhere, but Interceptors (plural) probably refers to more than just Soontir. The X Wing is everywhere and has multiple good options. The Y-Wing is seen quite a bit and has at least 2-3 good options. The U-Wing has several good pilots and the generics are used. All 3 of the striker pilots are good, and so are all 3 reaper pilots, and their generics are used as well. The TIE phantom has 2 incredible pilots and both generics are still quite usable. Meanwhile, the TIE Interceptor is still a 1-pilot ship, meaning few are seen on any individual table.

Well yeah, none of the other ships mentioned are so laser-focused on arc dodging 

We could go all day explaining how every other ship is better designed to see more play across all pilots, but I'll just stick to the striker/phantom as the most direct means of comparison

The interceptor/striker/phantom ALL have ship abilities that let them get a free re/pre-positioning effect (with the phantom doubling up with an extra evade). 

The difference? First, Aileron and Cloak simply lets their ships move in ways most other ships can't (esp since Stygium array makes Cloak sustainable without taking the Cloak action) while autothrusters rely on ye old boost/roll

Second, autothrusters inflict stress and therefore make the interceptor a garbage jouster. Aileron and stygium's evade action both get shut off by stress, but NOT before the ship gets to k-turn/sloop

And that's it, really. Strikers and Phantoms simply have better overall ship abilities that let their pilots (regardless of initiative) do their thing in flexible, unconventional ways. They can move in ways that higher initiative pilots (of other ships) can't replicate and they don't self stress.

The Interceptor doesn't. It's hard coded to be a boring old conventional arcdodger, which is why we only see Soontir. 

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

 

The Interceptor doesn't. It's hard coded to be an arcdodger, which is why we only see Soontir. 

 

Coincidentally, this also makes the I1 Alphas arguably the best small base blockers in the game...

EDIT:

Nevermind.... An Academy with Afterburners can do the same thing twice a game for only 29 points instead of 34. 

I think I'd take the Academy, as much as I'd hope to get that glorious, one time, four dice range one with my Alpha... The point is to block and break. 

Edited by Bucknife

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18 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Or all three of them could roll triple blanks while your focused and you go from 3 to 0 in 3 attacks. This is the problem, more or less: they live or die based on their green dice, which is always awful.

That goes without saying because that's all anybody ever talks about. There's no reason to risk a tournament game, but if a person isn't bringing Alpha Sq. Pilots to casual games because they're afraid of the variance, they might need to reconsider their priorities. You know, play the risks a little - there is way more to this game than just winning.

In the competitive scene, we should see Sloane + TIE interceptors appear more often Extended, but since a new Hyperspace season just kicked off, that may not happen.

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Posted (edited)

15 tournament games with 5 Sabre Squadron Aces so far. 10 wins.

I also tried 5 Alphas plus Wampa at an event; I found them less fun, and only won 2 out of 4 games.

They're enormous fun. Reliable winners? H'll no. But I enjoyed every game, whilst seeing if my dice liked them every time they attacked or defended.

I don't think dropping the alpha down any points is particularly useful - low I arc-dodging is inherently bad - but getting a bid or Predator (or Elusive?) on the Sabres would be very useful.

Any extra I5 pilots would get played a lot though.

Edit: Feroph with Sloane on board plus 4 Alphas needs to be tried out.

Edited by Gilarius

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Except for the interceptor. You will NEVER see anything but highest I on a chassis so hard geared towards arc dodging

Well, then maybe it is the one chassis that should feature numerous elite pilots.

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

I’m not sure how they suck. I just see other choices being taken over them because of points (like strikers).

In an epic world, I would think the I4 generics would be pretty good.

Well, the snarky answer is that if there is always a better choice, THEY SUCK.  😲

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I mean, we totally can turn this into yet another thread of generics vs uniques. But I was under the impression that it wasn't OPs question or point, so I don't see why it turned there.

Probably because in the case of the TIE Interceptor, the whole **** expac only needed 1 pilot card in it.  It could have just been called "The Baron Soontir's Fel" expansion.

57 minutes ago, All Shields Forward said:

Even if you take the argument that Soontir is enough for good representation of the frame on the table, it still doesn't excuse the lack of generics and there's room to have a discussion about that.

+1

13 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Oh boy, do I disagree. Alpha Sq. Pilots have always been good in Epic, and I maintain that they will continue to do so. Sure they're more expensive than TIE fighters but 1) they can jet across the board to get to targets or escape to safety with relative ease, 2) they have more attack dice, and 3) with the preponderance of coordinate abilities on huge ships, they were relatively easy to protect with Focus + Evade making them more durable than strikers (careful not to Autothrusters too much, or you lose out on this option). And usually your opponent is more interested in killing the big ships than the little fighters, so they get uncontested shots.

If you are worried about TIE interceptors in Epic...well, don't. 

Eh, that's not been my experience--in Epic there are so many arcs of fire that arc-dodgers haven't got a chance.  And with a brother who loves B-wings, poppability is a very bad feature.

Granted, since no Epic for 2.0 yet, I haven't given them a try, so we'll see.

For me, this ship is my 1.0 X-Wing.  It annoys the **** out of me that the #2 Iconic (after the /ln) Imperial fighter just isn't good (OK, maybe what I really want is Pretty Good to Great) outside of 1 pilot.

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4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Probably because in the case of the TIE Interceptor, the whole **** expac only needed 1 pilot card in it.  It could have just been called "The Baron Soontir's Fel" expansion.

... almost there...

Are you talking about 1.0?

6 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Probably because in the case of the TIE Interceptor, the whole **** expac only needed 1 pilot card in it.  It could have just been called "The Baron Soontir's Fel" expansion.

Soontir and "I already have Soontir, but for some strange reason I believe that this i5 or i4 pilot is my next best competitive option" would make a great duo.

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Posted (edited)

I know it's fashionable to bag on Alpha Interceptors, but I think they're not so bad.  They're really nimble and hit hard.  It's pretty easy to two-shot them, and one-shot is possible but statistically rare (2.2% chance with 3 dice vs 3 dice with focus tokens).  But whichever ones live can tear someone to absolute shreds.

Wampa is a good ship, right?  Decent filler.  An Alpha is a Wampa where there isn't the drawback of losing the 3rd attack die, and where you also get a Boost action and Autothrusters, so you can Focus/Roll or Focus/Boost.  That's worth 4 points, IMHO.

Now, some folks prefer Strikers, which is fair enough.  Different folks enjoy flying different ships.  But there really isn't a massive difference, statistically speaking.  Strikers are marginally tougher, but not that much.  Three attacks (3 red focus) kills a Striker (range 2, no focus) 74% of the time, three attacks kills an Alpha (range 2, no focus) 74% of the time.  Interceptor dies 47% of the time to two attacks, while Striker is 38%.  On average, a Striker takes 2.99 attacks to die, an Interceptor 2.86.  Eh.  Seems close enough to me that I'd suggest someone just fly whatever ship they enjoy the movement style of, and not worry about the difference.  I've one-shot Strikers at Range 1 before.  In one game I did it twice.

//

Big Picture:

Soontir is very good and very popular.

Generics aren't the most consistent ship, but they move very well, can hit hella hard.  A true "No Shields--All Guts" ship.  Not for everyone, but not really so much worse off that they're unplayable, if you've got a jones for it.  I mean, TIE Bombers with Barrage Rockets are wicked boring, even if they are "better" ships. 

//

As to what Interceptors need?  More pilots, just for variety.  Only having two named pilots is slim pickings.

I wouldn't hate to see modifications come down in price, but I'm not going to get mad on the forums about the current prices.

Edited by theBitterFig

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I always wished there was a I5 Interceptor generic for like 48 points or something.

It would add actual viability to the generics and the chassis would be so inefficient it would be hard to use well.

 

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17 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

Edit: Feroph with Sloane on board plus 4 Alphas needs to be tried out.

Feroph + Sloane with 4 Planetary Sentinels is my go-to Sloane swarm. It's good. I agree that it should be attempted with Alphas replacing the Sentinels.

2 minutes ago, Xendrick said:

I always wished there was a I5 Interceptor generic for like 48 points or something.

It would add actual viability to the generics and the chassis would be so inefficient it would be hard to use well.

My first reaction was, "Ugh, no thanks. That's not a meta I want to be a part of." But on further reflection, you'd be taking 4 ships with 3 hull each, and just a Crack Shot or Predator to boost offense. That doesn't sound so bad in the spamming department, and would slot nicely into a bunch of lists. I still don't think it will happen, but I wouldn't necessarily be opposed.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Octarine-08 said:

I really don't understand why the standard for a generic to be good is whether or not spamming makes a solid list.

Seriously.  Republic have done decently with 2x Torrent, 2x Jedi before the adjustment.  Torrent-Swarm is never played, but the Torrent can do a decent job.

45 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

15 tournament games with 5 Sabre Squadron Aces so far. 10 wins.

I don't think dropping the alpha down any points is particularly useful - low I arc-dodging is inherently bad - but getting a bid or Predator (or Elusive?) on the Sabres would be very useful.

Nicely done.

5x Crack Shot Sabre Aces would be sweet.

45 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

Edit: Feroph with Sloane on board plus 4 Alphas needs to be tried out.

I've flown against Vermiel (Vader Crew) and 4 Alphas, Sai (Sloane) and 4 Alphas.  Both seemed like decent enough lists.

Feroph (Sloane) makes a lot of sense.  I might toss on Stealth Device.  Feroph is one of few pilots out there who has consistent enough green dice to almost surely get an evade with the extra green die (making it as good as Shield), and maybe against a weak attack it sticks around.

Edited by theBitterFig

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30 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Coincidentally, this also makes the I1 Alphas arguably the best small base blockers in the game...

EDIT:

Nevermind.... An Academy with Afterburners can do the same thing twice a game for only 29 points instead of 34. 

I think I'd take the Academy, as much as I'd hope to get that glorious, one time, four dice range one with my Alpha... The point is to block and break. 

Also Strikers!

They don't go quite as far, but they still go pretty fast!

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Brainstorm time!

So in First Edition I had a lot of success with 4 Alphas + a shuttle with Fleet Officer. The focus tokens granted by Fleet Officer allowed the lead interceptors to survive a surprising amount of attacks. What I quickly realized was that this squad didn't care much about arc dodging. With the extra tokens, Alpha Sq. Pilots become good jousters. Weird, right?

So with the idea that they can perform as jousters, what options do we have for feeding them more tokens? The First Order gets Hux, and I find myself eyeing that card with jealousy. Are there any ways for the Empire to give multiple coordinates or tokens out to the Alphas?

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3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

The Squint got shafted by 2.0.  It lost all of its aces, lost it's title, failed to pick up linked actions to give it some new 2.0 flavor, kept the same stat line, and functionally got pretty much the same dial.

The title only gave it an extra modification slot, which is now baked into the upgrade bar of the chassis. The problem is that point-scaling issues means that most of the upgrades are prohibitively expensive.

I'd like to see TIE Interceptors and Fang Fighters get the same treatment as A-Wings: an extra talent slot. These guys are supposed to be a step above all other pilots, and double talent slots is a good way to reflect that.

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8 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Brainstorm time!

So in First Edition I had a lot of success with 4 Alphas + a shuttle with Fleet Officer. The focus tokens granted by Fleet Officer allowed the lead interceptors to survive a surprising amount of attacks. What I quickly realized was that this squad didn't care much about arc dodging. With the extra tokens, Alpha Sq. Pilots become good jousters. Weird, right?

So with the idea that they can perform as jousters, what options do we have for feeding them more tokens? The First Order gets Hux, and I find myself eyeing that card with jealousy. Are there any ways for the Empire to give multiple coordinates or tokens out to the Alphas?

Not that I saw in Hyperspace but for Extended there are a couple. Requires some set up, but Krennic + Tarkin comes close (allows the Interceptors to use their focus on defense and still retain a mod). Another one which is closer to your summary of what Fleet Officer permitted is Palp. Not a full focus, but it is a once per turn "free" calc token worth of effect.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Brainstorm time!

So in First Edition I had a lot of success with 4 Alphas + a shuttle with Fleet Officer. The focus tokens granted by Fleet Officer allowed the lead interceptors to survive a surprising amount of attacks. What I quickly realized was that this squad didn't care much about arc dodging. With the extra tokens, Alpha Sq. Pilots become good jousters. Weird, right?

So with the idea that they can perform as jousters, what options do we have for feeding them more tokens? The First Order gets Hux, and I find myself eyeing that card with jealousy. Are there any ways for the Empire to give multiple coordinates or tokens out to the Alphas?

Two Reapers or Two Shuttles?  One has Sloane, to be sure.

Something about that doesn't seem too terrible.  Only two Alphas can roll in Focus/Evade, but depending on deployment, you might be able to break one off a bit more to the side.

*e* Per @Hiemfire , Palp also works.  Alas, Palp fills the two crew slots and leaves Sloane in the cold.

Edited by theBitterFig

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