Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
redcapjack

When is a good time to start?

Recommended Posts

On 7/8/2019 at 8:32 AM, redcapjack said:

I'm an old player sort of looking at these new cards after nearly a decade and wondering how overwhelming a purchase it would be to start playing again. 

It's important to know you'll be playing game named Legend of the Five Rings, but not L5R CCG anymore. I mean in term of strict gameplay. These both games play just so different even if look and sound familiar (two decks etc.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 7/12/2019 at 4:51 PM, Schmoozies said:

They can only reduce costs so far before they are losing money.  Thrones house decks were 69 cards for $14.95 to make a legal deck.  L5R you need a minimum of 86 cards (Stronghold, 5 provinces and two 40 card dynasty and conflict decks before we factor in role cards and Imperial favor so 92 cards may even be more realistic) to make a "legal" deck.  Even at that minimum we are already over the total card count for a clan pack so are looking at a minimum price point of $20  before factoring in that there are card components that are absolutely required that have to be included (honor dial at minimum and likely fate, honor and first player token as well) if you want this to replace your core product as the jumping on point for players.  Its one of the reasons I set a $25 value as a minimum price point (which would still be very heavily discounted most likely since I was looking at almost 2/3rd more cards per set) but for arguments sake lets bring it down to $20.  Even at that price point buying seven clans would mean $140 for a full set of cards (so still $20 more expensive then 3 cores).

Since the initial point I was countering was that these sorts of get started clan packs should replace the core sets neutral cards need to be included in the pack some where.  There are absolutely Neutral cards you could leave out of individual packs as they ideal for each clan but then you are getting back to the core set issue, if players want those cards for future decks where they may function in that clan they now need to hunt additional product that they may not want for those few cards.   You also need to figure out how many of each do you put in the decks.  Do you set it up so that if you buy all 7 packs you would have the equivalent of 3 cores worth of cards, do you say 3 packs will get you a set of neutrals, what if you split along military and political lines for the neutrals and players aren't interested in the political or military clans.  How do you divide provinces, whose stuck with Elemental Fury as their clans Water province for example.  Are you saying that clans are going to be locked to a role or how do you handle Seeker versus Keeper as province rows will look very different in that case and decks have serious construction issues between lower influence and which initiate do they get.  Further how do you handle splash.  Are you locking a clan pack into one splash or do you just not use splash at all (making the Keeper role that much weaker).  Just in clan cards from core the average 13-15 Dynasty (with Dragon and Unicorn being on the short end and Crab being on the high) and 9-11 Conflict cards (with Crab being the short side and Dragon being the only one on the high side) so that each faction got 24 cards (except for Unicorn who only got 23 in core).  Just doing 3 of for each clan you'd be looking at 39-45 card deck on dynasty side and 27-33 cards on conflict side.  Doesn't leave much space for customization on Dynasty to slot in the 8 dynasty side neutrals you would need to get at least 3 of each across the decks (and except for Keepers and Seekers 3 cores gives you 6 of each so really you need to get 42 cards in there to replicate the cores), conflict side you have more play room but do need to fit 6 copies of 14 cards to replicate what you get in core into those 70 slots so are still shot 14 slots assuming you aren't including any clan splash. 

You could maybe make it more manageable if you said each Clan deck was meant to supplement a core set so if you bought one core and 1 clan pack you'd have a play set of cards for that faction, but that makes the cost argument even worse as now you are adding a $40 core set back into equation so the price is back to $160.00 for a play set of all cards.  It also doesn't address the issue that from a retailer perspective its a horrible idea as I now have 8 different SKU's that I need to track as the "core" get started product for the game instead of 1.  There is a lot more wrong with the idea then would really help honestly.

There are a lot of baseless assumption in your post. All in all it comes down to how more expensive the shipping of 4-8 packs is compared to multiple core sets, which we both don't know.

From things that Tyler said I highly doubt that the next core set will have the same cards in it as the current. It would be possible to have no neutral cards in the core set. Or we could have a seperate pack with neutral cards, tokens, dials and rings. If they decide to merge the clan packs with the core set (and maybe children of the empire), it could be cheaper than the current model.

Edited by Ignithas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/12/2019 at 7:59 AM, kempy said:

It's important to know you'll be playing game named Legend of the Five Rings, but not L5R CCG anymore. I mean in term of strict gameplay. These both games play just so different even if look and sound familiar (two decks etc.)

I finally managed to get a session in with a friend who had bought the game a few years ago... my thoughts are a little varied on it. The game-play is actually not all that different. There were vast differences, but the games essential mechanics were still there- you gain resources, you purchase people, items, actions, and you try to take down an opponents provice, gain more honor, or restrict their honor. The major differences are things I rather enjoyed:

No more Shadowlands, so "dishonor" cards are no longer a waste of time in tournaments. In fact, honor choke seems quite strong and capable in this game.

The rounds are still quick and easy to play, but allows for enough variety that clans aren't just winning by turn three with the opponent having nothing to do with a "bad draaw". It's one of the major reasons I stopped playing in the first place-

BUT- cost wise, it is still an inefficient card distribution. I find the idea of purchasing three core sets just for a full playset of cards to be very strange. I would have liked to have seen more neutral cards produced and a distribution of only a few key cards with the core set. I do, however, like the clan-specific sets that have been released. And I do like that Clan-specific actions/holdings/et al were included that leaned toward the clan specializations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 8/1/2019 at 11:02 PM, redcapjack said:

I finally managed to get a session in with a friend who had bought the game a few years ago... my thoughts are a little varied on it. The game-play is actually not all that different. There were vast differences, but the games essential mechanics were still there- you gain resources, you purchase people, items, actions, and you try to take down an opponents provice, gain more honor, or restrict their honor. The major differences are things I rather enjoyed:

I suppose you played CCG a many, many years ago. Personally i was with CCG till the end and also played all other FFG LCG games to easily spot that new L5R is just a mix of all  these mechanics. Yes you still buy guys, "attack" provinces and gain/lose honor,  but  overall gameeplay is just completely different. Starting with my-round, your-round, non-vanishing guys, possibility to build gold-curve, destroying Provinces (reducing resources), deadly - multi-battles (adjacency and movement/assigining), separation between battle and home (rule of presence and location), honor as control/clock system not just different color of military etc. CCG was just a more vibrant with all these mechanics, various (even on card) victory conditions, plenty of neutral cards and your clan limit was you stronghold and personalities base. High risk, high reward was motto of old game. That's just different idea.

 

But it's just matter of taste. Lot of my ex-CCG friends just dropped this game becasue of various design/gameplay reasons, that's nowadays it's nearly non existent in country where i live. A country where we even managed to get Euro Championships for CCG years ago. I'll be personally shocked if there wil be more than 30 local players in Grand Kotei/FFG Euros this month. 

 

Quote

No more Shadowlands, so "dishonor" cards are no longer a waste of time in tournaments. In fact, honor choke seems quite strong and capable in this game.

In Samurai Edition they replaced "immune to dishonor" Shadowlands faction with Spider, there was only one joke Stronghold without support . Edition later, in Celestial, they removed these things completely.

 

Quote

The rounds are still quick and easy to play, but allows for enough variety that clans aren't just winning by turn three with the opponent having nothing to do with a "bad draaw". It's one of the major reasons I stopped playing in the first place-

You need to play more new game. I wonder when you notice how limited deckbuilding is, how many wrong designed cards from Core Set affect whole design. And what's important, you will learn to know that one error in early game will cost you a game but you will realize it after additional 50+ (wasted) minutes.  

Edited by kempy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/4/2019 at 12:14 PM, kempy said:

You need to play more new game. I wonder when you notice how limited deckbuilding is, how many wrong designed cards from Core Set affect whole design. And what's important, you will learn to know that one error in early game will cost you a game but you will realize it after additional 50+ (wasted) minutes.  

Wow, you sure know how to promote the game 😬

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...