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Bucknife

The Omega Special (5sf is better than 5A)

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First Order, Season 2

_________________

The Omega Special

5x (34) Omega Squadron Expert [TIE/sf Fighter]
(2) Fanatical
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 40

Total points: 200

____________________

imperial-specialforces-tie-600px.gif

We have local First Order results with this squad saying it's absolutely a beast. 

The Omega Special is undefeated, as far as I'm aware. 

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4 hours ago, Bucknife said:

First Order, Season 2

_________________

The Omega Special

5x (34) Omega Squadron Expert [TIE/sf Fighter]
(2) Fanatical
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 40

Total points: 200

____________________

imperial-specialforces-tie-600px.gif

We have local First Order results with this squad saying it's absolutely a beast. 

The Omega Special is undefeated, as far as I'm aware. 

It does look nasty. The fact you can have the turret set front and back rather than having to 'guess' at low initiative is nice, and they're very tough for cheap ships.

I'm kind of tempted to try 6 generics, too.

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I've flown 5x Optics before they could get Fanatical.  Seemed decent over a few games.  Fanatical seems like a nice improvement.

That said, I wonder if it's overkill.  A lot of dice mods on 2-red ships.  It'll be consistent as all heck, but still.  Cutting all the Optics leaves someone *one* point away from also having a Fanatical Quickdraw with Gunner. Fanatical/Fire Control System upgrades one to Backdraft with 5 points to spare (Pattern Analyzer, for an opening 3-Sloop?  Just a Hull Upgrade?)

Fanatical Optics is probably the best plan, though.  Just musing on potential options.

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I like this with the 5 Fanatical/AO when I'm making the investment in bulk SFs.

The ability to take the Evade later on while maintaining some offensive mods makes these guys stick around far longer than they have any right to do so.

I still think Ups/3SF or Ups/2x SF/FO are better, but this is a nice alternative. 

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24 minutes ago, bydand said:

I like this with the 5 Fanatical/AO when I'm making the investment in bulk SFs.

The ability to take the Evade later on while maintaining some offensive mods makes these guys stick around far longer than they have any right to do so.

I still think Ups/3SF or Ups/2x SF/FO are better, but this is a nice alternative. 

and the rotate arc , and dial can make for some fun kill boxes. 

A guy at Malmö System opend in sweden made top 16 i think with 5 tie sf with missiles , the I 2 ones 

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“Backdraft” (39)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Got a game in with this vs Poe,Cova,Greer,VI. By time, i was winning pretty soundly. We continued playing and in the end I got em all and had 1 sf mostly full and two with a couple hull left. 

The squad is tough. Just plinks and plinks and nowhere for enemy to hide.

Backdraft was great, as greer flanked around the swarm and backdraft just kept blasting 3 dice and took the awing out.

Not even sure how I would approach this list. So many arcs and consistent two hits.

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On 8/8/2019 at 3:19 AM, wurms said:

“Backdraft” (39)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Got a game in with this vs Poe,Cova,Greer,VI. By time, i was winning pretty soundly. We continued playing and in the end I got em all and had 1 sf mostly full and two with a couple hull left. 

The squad is tough. Just plinks and plinks and nowhere for enemy to hide.

Backdraft was great, as greer flanked around the swarm and backdraft just kept blasting 3 dice and took the awing out.

Not even sure how I would approach this list. So many arcs and consistent two hits.

I like the thought of Crack Shot.

Fanatical is a great upgrade, but it's not fast.  If your opponent is doing a good job at burning down one ship at a time, it might only ever convert a single hit per ship, and it might not trigger on most ships until deeper into the game.  Now, if it never triggers, it means you stayed above half points, and you're kind of glad about that, but there may be some way to get some more immediacy to the damage in the list, and Crack Shot seems like that'd work.  TIE/sfs seem great at setting up blocks and killboxes, so Crack Shot might work out.  The middle-game of constant 2-dice attacks for chip damage seems like it'll work better, the bigger the early-game nuke is, and Crack Shot seems like it'd do well with that.

However, here's the twist I was considering before digging back into the thread: Omega Experts with Crack Shot and Pattern Analyzer.  While just drifting past an enemy list with 1-straights can be good, it feels like it runs into diminishing returns, and there's a point where it's better to just S-Loop and get back into the fight.  Hence Pattern Analyzer.  That'd allow a quicker S-Loop, and a more impactful one.  It'd also open up the really nice 1-hards.  Might not be worth it to give up Advanced Optics, but a bunch of PA SFs would probably be a lot of fun.

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18 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I like the thought of Crack Shot.

Fanatical is a great upgrade, but it's not fast. 

I basically chose crackshot because this list is brutal if you get a ship off the board quickly, every damage in the first two rounds counts. Especially against other swarms/jousters. I think its critical to erase a v19 in a sinker swarm before it fires. Leaving an sf on 1 hull means it gets another shot vs a sinker swarm. That was my thought.

If fanatical triggers, it means you probably have 2 hull left and maybe you get another round, two if you are lucky for its use.

Adding backdraft to the squad co ering the rear and providing a 3 dice attack to any flanker (like Ric Olie) will keep them honest.

Thinking about taking this to Hyperspace trial just to see how it does.

Pattern analyzer I dont think is worth it. You dont need to sloop that much. I slooped like 3 times in the entire game above, and that was when it was 3v1 and it was safe.

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7 hours ago, wurms said:

Pattern analyzer I dont think is worth it. You dont need to sloop that much. I slooped like 3 times in the entire game above, and that was when it was 3v1 and it was safe.

I've kind of been increasing how often I sloop when flying SFs.  I still want the move-just-past and rear-gun round of the engagement, but after that, I've often felt like I wanted to Sloop, so that I can stop just potshotting at range 3, and just S-Loop and get back in there, try to get more range 1 shots.  Certainly a lot more immediate than chaining a few hard-turns together.  Also that 1-hard is wicked tempting...

But then again, I've been flying more SFs as filler with just Fanatica, or Passive Sensors/Missiles, or 6 ship SF builds, where I don't have Optics to ensure my 2-dice range 3 shots are still good when doing an endless drift.

The more I think about it, it probably isn't worth it, not because it isn't useful, but because it's mostly useful on ships without Optics, but Optics is cheaper.

Still, I might try it out sometime.

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I've been playing the 5x Omegas with Optics+Fanatical (I've been calling it "Fanoptical") and had excellent results, but I've got mixed feelings about Fanatical. It looks great on paper but there are many cases where it doesn't help:

* You go from shielded to dead before getting to fire - this happens often because focus-fire is generally best practice anyway.

* You fire with it active but don't roll any focus symbols.

* You fire with it active but roll 2+ focus symbols so you spend your focus token anyway.

In that third case I'm assuming actions are focus instead of evade, even when shieldless; evade is an option, but Fanatical alone is a bit weak for offensive mods.

I've begun trying out Crackshot instead of evade, and I've only had a few games but it seems good so far. Optics gives good mods on the /sfs own red dice already, so messing with the target's green dice is what it wants more. It helps with offence more at the beginning of the game (the opposite of Fanatical) which I like, plus it turns the squad into a more credible jousting threat. It leaves a 5-point bid which doesn't help often at i3, but in some games it might.

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1 hour ago, Dasharr said:

I've been playing the 5x Omegas with Optics+Fanatical (I've been calling it "Fanoptical") and had excellent results, but I've got mixed feelings about Fanatical. It looks great on paper but there are many cases where it doesn't help:

* You go from shielded to dead before getting to fire - this happens often because focus-fire is generally best practice anyway.

* You fire with it active but don't roll any focus symbols.

* You fire with it active but roll 2+ focus symbols so you spend your focus token anyway.

In that third case I'm assuming actions are focus instead of evade, even when shieldless; evade is an option, but Fanatical alone is a bit weak for offensive mods.

I've begun trying out Crackshot instead of evade, and I've only had a few games but it seems good so far. Optics gives good mods on the /sfs own red dice already, so messing with the target's green dice is what it wants more. It helps with offence more at the beginning of the game (the opposite of Fanatical) which I like, plus it turns the squad into a more credible jousting threat. It leaves a 5-point bid which doesn't help often at i3, but in some games it might.

Running Backdraft + 4x I3's all with Crack and AO at the Aus SOS in two weeks and the OTC in three weeks.

Stronger early and mid game, hopefully being able to crack a ship or two off the board quicker than the Fanatical version. 

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I feel like Fanatical is one of the strongest talents in the game, but that doesn't mean it's great on every ship or in every list.  With the high shield-to-hull ratio (so less time in the ships lifespan where it can be Fanatical), and in a list where ships can probably be focus-fired more easily, Fanatical might not be the best pick.

Silencers are going to be better at avoiding mass fire.  TIE/FO can activate Fanatical from even a single chip damage.  Someone like Quickdraw is better able to pick their spots, and their ability discourages incoming attacks.  Fanatical seems like a very good go-to on those, but generic TIE/sfs... eh.  The fast damage of Crack Shot seems better.

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On 8/17/2019 at 3:44 AM, Deffly said:

Running Backdraft + 4x I3's all with Crack and AO at the Aus SOS in two weeks and the OTC in three weeks.

Stronger early and mid game, hopefully being able to crack a ship or two off the board quicker than the Fanatical version. 

I just ran it this weekend at our hyperspace trials. Really good. Went 4-2, but felt like I shoulda been 5-1, if it wasnt for one lousy round. BATREP HERE

Didnt feel outmatched in any of my matchups and I played everything! Vulutre swarm, 2 regen aces, super kylo, tie swarm, sinker ric swarm. I had some really close games, but everything is winnable, which is a good thing.

Crackshot is beautiful. No way I could go fanatical. Crack saved my bacon in many matchups.

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@wurms @Deffly

Flew the Crack/Draft variant of this at a local kit tourney, 10 players.  Went 3-1, came 3rd after MOV tiebreaks.

Won 145-137 vs Kylo, QD, 2 Zeta SF.  My opponent's Zeta SFs got lost in the outfield for the first little while, I traded one Omega for Quickdraw, and chipped away at Kylo (had my chances to take that last 1 HP).  Just enough of my stuff survived.

Won 161-156 vs 3 Blue Escort T-65, 2 Gray Bomber Ys with Ion Cannons and R4.  In some ways, kind of a mirror match, similar toughness to the lists.  I lined up opposite and went straight into the joust.  Turns out, init-kills are good.  Killing X-Wings before they took 4-dice shots won the game that dice almost list.  Ended when a Bomber Ion'd my last Omega off the board, but Backdraft was 5 health and in a good position to just run.

Won 200-59 vs Duchess, 2 Reapers, 3 TIEs (the list that came 2nd in MOV).  A series of unfortunate events.  I've played this fellow before, and they're good, but just have rotten luck in games against me.  A last-second decision to Aileron's Duchess lead to her clipping a debris cloud, lead to Loose Stabilizer, lead to her landing behind Backdraft at Range 1, into 4 hits.

Lost 125-200 vs RAC, Maarek, Duchess.  Vader crew kinda owns Advanced Optics SFs.  I got a bit of the bad luck, with a 2 health SF just barely clipped by a Proton Bomb, into Direct Hit.  Then Vader and RACs attack could go into another SF, and it felt like it kinda cascaded from there.  I don't think I would have won either way (and I was the only person on the day who killed RAC), but after that point I certainly was only playing for MOV.  Was going after RAC first a mistake?  Maybe Duchess was the right first target (should be fairly easy to chip away with a string of 2-hit attacks), but RAC has so much health that I don't know if I can really kill everything before dying myself however I prioritize.

 

All in all, I don't think I used Crack Shot more than twice per game.  Some of that was luck (too many evades, or too few), some of that is not being practiced enough on bullseye to fully capitalize, but I know I got serious work out of Backdraft's extra attack die.

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Awesome. I also had lots of close games too. Seems inevitable with this list. Not a ton of firepower, and not very defensive. Just lots of health and just time for consistent plink damage.

Crackshot was gold for me. Won me quite a few games.

In the rac matchup, i probably go hard for the aces, and if they dodge you, fire at Rac with your other arc.

 

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On 8/17/2019 at 9:58 AM, Dasharr said:

I've been playing the 5x Omegas with Optics+Fanatical (I've been calling it "Fanoptical") and had excellent results, but I've got mixed feelings about Fanatical. It looks great on paper but there are many cases where it doesn't help:

* You go from shielded to dead before getting to fire - this happens often because focus-fire is generally best practice anyway.

* You fire with it active but don't roll any focus symbols.

* You fire with it active but roll 2+ focus symbols so you spend your focus token anyway.

In that third case I'm assuming actions are focus instead of evade, even when shieldless; evade is an option, but Fanatical alone is a bit weak for offensive mods.

I've begun trying out Crackshot instead of evade, and I've only had a few games but it seems good so far. Optics gives good mods on the /sfs own red dice already, so messing with the target's green dice is what it wants more. It helps with offence more at the beginning of the game (the opposite of Fanatical) which I like, plus it turns the squad into a more credible jousting threat. It leaves a 5-point bid which doesn't help often at i3, but in some games it might.

I'm replying to my own post, to update after having more experience. I flew the "Fanoptical" version at the XTC and Euros last week, and I've now changed my mind about the talents. I realised that trying to double down on mods by focusing with shieldless Omegas was getting them ps-killed too often by initiative 4+ enemies. By evading instead I got better results overall (better a lightly-modded shot than none at all, and a surviving Omega can make trouble through blocks or weird positioning where it's hard to target but the rear arc is threatening). So I now like the Fanatical version better.

The only thing I really miss from the Crackshot version is the bid, oddly enough. It doesn't matter very often but when it does, it can matter a lot. With droid swarms (equally often i3 as i1 in my experience) and SuperInquisitors catching on, i3 bids can be decisive in some matchups. I played against Tom Reed's Jendon 3x Inquisitor squad at Euros and got beaten hard, even after some bad early green dice on his part. When those things can token up and are extremely hard to block and focus fire onto because of SNR and second player, trying to get damage onto them with only 2 red dice is really hard.

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I flew Kylo + three Crack/AO experts on the weekend at SOS. Went 3-3 and was in every game (all went to time) . Only lost due to not being able to get damage through. 

First game an E-wing survived 4 range 1 modded attacks, only taking one crit (lost shields previous round). Then in the last two turns I couldn't do one damage to the other E-wing with two double modded shots from Kylo (his evade dice were super hot) to win. 

Third game I got into a winning position until my opponent's Torrent decided to roll natties on offence and pop two SF's in subsequent turns. His Plo then rolled natties three turns in a row to kill my Kylo. 

Last game a 1hp Bastion survived 4 turns of shooting. Because I couldn't kill him his other ships took advantage and killed off my SF's. 

 

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I played 5 Zeta Squadron Survivor with Homing Missiles and Passive Sensors during a Game night. First against Ketsu, 4-Lom and an Yv-666. Lost on point but it was pretty close (Ketsu and 4-Lom at 1 hull each).

Then against Fenn and Fat Solo. It was... not enjoyable at all for my opponent. Fenn had no way to escape its fate. Solo was chain-blocked until we decided to end this bloodbath.

I will test 5 Omega Squadron Expert with Crack Shot and Homing Missiles. Passive Sensor was useful only on the first engage. (but I'll wait for a tournament if I want to keep my friends).

Edited by Cartchan

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9 hours ago, Cartchan said:

I played 5 Zeta Squadron Survivor with Homing Missiles and Passive Sensors during a Game night. First against Ketsu, 4-Lom and an Yv-666. Lost on point but it was pretty close (Ketsu and 4-Lom at 1 hull each).

Then against Fenn and Fat Solo. It was... not enjoyable at all for my opponent. Fenn had no way to escape its fate. Solo was chain-blocked until we decided to end this bloodbath.

I will test 5 Omega Squadron Expert with Crack Shot and Homing Missiles. Passive Sensor was useful only on the first engage. (but I'll wait for a tournament if I want to keep my friends).

I would find a way to go 5 with Optics if you can. 

Fanatical is probably overkill on 5 of these guys and Crack is good and cheap. 

8 points to bid or upgrade a pilot to named seems solid. 

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9 hours ago, Cartchan said:

I played 5 Zeta Squadron Survivor with Homing Missiles and Passive Sensors during a Game night.

Then against Fenn and Fat Solo. It was... not enjoyable at all for my opponent. Fenn had no way to escape its fate.

Passive Sensor/Homing Missile Zetas have a major potential to hard-counter low-health aces.  All the anti-Lock tech pretty much doesn't work against them.  Kagi, Spare Parts Canister, Ferrosphere Paint.

I'm not sure on non-Passive Sensor versions, since a large part of the strength of Passive Sensors is that you don't have to worry about range or distance, you can mind your own business, and if an ace wanders into your arc, they're Homing Missile'd.  Deleting something on the first engage is pretty handy against some ships.  Maybe with the rear arc, it's easy enough with acquiring locks normally, but Homing Missile A-Wings, for example, have never really been successful.

36 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

I would find a way to go 5 with Optics if you can. 

Fanatical is probably overkill on 5 of these guys and Crack is good and cheap. 

8 points to bid or upgrade a pilot to named seems solid. 

Comparing Homing Missiles to Advanced Optics is interesting.  Optics is a lot of consistency.  2 hits after 2 hits after 2 hits can be fairly effective at grinding down something like an X-Wing or TIE Reaper or whatever, particularly with Crack Shot.  Against a Kylo Ren, well... maybe.  Dude has force charges and 3 green dice and sometimes it's hard to push damage.  Weight of fire matters, but it doesn't always land.  I needed Backdraft and still couldn't make it on Kylo flying against him last Sunday.  Got him down to 1 HP, so it can happen, even if it didn't then.  Homing would have nailed him to the wall, but I think Optics was necessary to a lot of my wins against other lists.

I guess the Optics vs Homing thing is that, when you really want to push damage on an ace, Homing will get you there, at the cost of some reliability against non-ace ships.  It gets a lot easier for anything with 6 or more health to survive a round of combat without optics, but it seems like a totally valid meta-call to go with Homing over Optics.  If there's a lot of aces and you want to just kill them, Homing can get you there.

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