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why don't you play TIE swarms?

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1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

It really isn't a recent phenomena, the use of the terminology just is in a peak period right now. It'll fade again, I hope. 

Hopefully, just like the actual disease.

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9 hours ago, President Jyrgunkarrd said:

This may eventually be true, but for now the Trade Fed has so few options compared to the Empire that their swarm is even more limited in its meta scope while having less effective firepower.

Empire can complement a swarm with whatever they want. Big Ace, stress bombs, actual bombs, fat Decimator, more swarm, support vehicles, etc. Federation only has 'add more swarm and pray'.

Being able to R2 an opponent with your alpha is nice, but not quite as nice as the TIE R1 alpha with it's Howlrunner re-rolls and initiative kills.

I think you undervalue network calculation.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, RStan said:

I think you're overvaluing the ship chassis of the Vulture...

I don't know, 22 points for a PS 3 ship that has the ability to grapple obstacles.... You can easily turn those native 2 agility to 3 and then have at least two calculates to pull from.

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1 minute ago, Hujoe Bigs said:

I don't know, 22 points for a PS 3 ship that has the ability to grapple obstacles.... You can easily turn those native 2 agility to 3 and then have at least two calculates to pull from.

Cheaper grappling struts can potentially provide a new avenue for increasing the Vulture survivability, but you generally want to not just be sitting on a rock for multiple turns before engagement as your opponent can plan on a correct attack vector. So it's doing it on the same turn of potential engagement is probably the best strategy. Make your opponent guess if you'll use the obstacles to your advantage or still take the open lanes. 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I think you undervalue network calculation.

 

 

I mean, it's range 1 only and is a net neutral on mods unless the Vulture gets I killed and its calc would've gone to waste anyway

 

Anyway, CiS just got Probes on a ship you can actually slot into a Vulture swarm! (Seriously, the probe ESC TuB is 36 points whereas the cheap Sith is 56...the twenty point difference buys another vulture!). That may be their "Howlrunner"

Also, the 175 relay guy

Edited by ficklegreendice

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6 hours ago, Darth Seridur said:

The Q i am asking is why do all these top players keep saying to play TIE swarm, but dont do it themselves. 

Cynically: because the lists they like to fly can beat TIE Swarms but struggle against beef and want to encourage more people to fly the list they can more easily beat

Probably: they just want to see more interesting data/games

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1 hour ago, RStan said:

Cheaper grappling struts can potentially provide a new avenue for increasing the Vulture survivability, but you generally want to not just be sitting on a rock for multiple turns before engagement as your opponent can plan on a correct attack vector. So it's doing it on the same turn of potential engagement is probably the best strategy. Make your opponent guess if you'll use the obstacles to your advantage or still take the open lanes. 

I agree completely. You want those grappling struts to give you that agility bonus on both the opening volley as well as the follow up by parking them sweet vultures on some asteroids. It really does make them quite a bit more stout.

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The one time I flew a TIE swarm was inferno squad and friends against the best player at my FLGS. Beat him pretty easily, actually.

 

I don't fly swarms because I'm an R-faction player, and like flying famous pilots.

That and my local meta is fairly ace heavy, and I don't care for matches that are pretty much decided in the first round of combat. You either wipe their hitter off the board or you lose.

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Posted (edited)

I was flying an interesting TIE Swarm the other day.  TIE /x1 Swarm.  4 Tempests + Howl.

Might take it to the next Hyperspace tourney, depending on how I like the First Order stuff I'm playing around with now.

Edited by theBitterFig

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3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

I mean, it's range 1 only and is a net neutral on mods unless the Vulture gets I killed and its calc would've gone to waste anyway

 

I would rather have 8x ships with a single calculate and network calculation then 8x ships with focus any day of the week.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I would rather have 8x ships with a single calculate and network calculation then 8x ships with focus any day of the week.

Sure, that makes sense, but that's not what the droid swarm is being compared to. It's being compared to the TIE Swarm that's actually being played right now which is the Inferno Sq version utilizing abilities like Howlrunner, Swarm Tactics so all shots happen at i4 or higher, dice adders (Wampa/Gideon), and biggest of all, Iden Versio which is like adding a whole other ship to the game that your opponent has to fight through. Vastly superior to the droid swarm and easily takes 2 droids out in the first engagement, if not potentially 3. 

Edited by RStan

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13 hours ago, Hujoe Bigs said:

I don't know, 22 points for a PS 3 ship that has the ability to grapple obstacles.... You can easily turn those native 2 agility to 3 and then have at least two calculates to pull from.

The problem is that they can't pack Trick Shot - so yes it's easy to 'park' on the middle of an obstacle and get a bonus green die, but you're likely to be offering the same to your targets as well.

11 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I was flying an interesting TIE Swarm the other day.  TIE /x1 Swarm.  4 Tempests + Howl.

Might take it to the next Hyperspace tourney, depending on how I like the First Order stuff I'm playing around with now.

I dunno. I think adding one or two advanced to a squad is great, but their big thing - the extra critical from Advanced Targeting Computer and the 'sustained' target lock from Fire Control System - becomes increasingly less valuable in large squads. If you field 4-5 TIE/x1, you'd like to think it won't matter if the damage cards are face-up or face down because the target will be dead, and hence the unspent locks are also useless.

Against something bigger, I'd rather have a some Bombers with Barrage Rockets, or Saber interceptors, or something, to drop the target's shields and then smack it around with ATC fire from the TIE/x1.

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I never have tried a classic 8 ship tie swarm. I think it is because I just haven't been bothered to learn and practice the block formation requirements. It seems you need to be absolutely on point with regards to obstacle placement and moving your ships exactly. If you mess up then you create a huge roadblock and bump your ships. Seems very unforgiving to me and from what I can see the list is not particularly powerful.

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I put “it’s boring” but the real answer is I’m just not interested in being locked into flying formations. Which is a big reason of why I never got into CIS.

I have flown the Howl-Inferno swarm and done well enough with it (by that I mean I did about the same as I do with any other decently constructed list). It’s ok for a one off open play game night, but I couldn’t do 6 rounds of Swiss with it personally.

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4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I dunno. I think adding one or two advanced to a squad is great, but their big thing - the extra critical from Advanced Targeting Computer and the 'sustained' target lock from Fire Control System - becomes increasingly less valuable in large squads. If you field 4-5 TIE/x1, you'd like to think it won't matter if the damage cards are face-up or face down because the target will be dead, and hence the unspent locks are also useless.

Against something bigger, I'd rather have a some Bombers with Barrage Rockets, or Saber interceptors, or something, to drop the target's shields and then smack it around with ATC fire from the TIE/x1.

Fair enough.  Won't be too hard to run Howl, Iden, Mauler, Maarek, and a Tempest.  Or Howl, Mauler, Gideon Hask, Maarek, and Ved Folso (everyone init 4-5, everyone "3" red dice).  But at that point, Imperial 5 by 5 seems better, and the core idea--flying lots of TIE/x1--is lost.

I guess there's another way of looking at it: suppose I want to run a lot of TIE/x1.  It just isn't going to work that great to run 5x Tempests.  Their approach is so weak, since they won't easily be able to get locks, and without Focus the can't get a lot out of their rather-good defensive statline.  So then you need a different plan for mass Tempest.  4 Tempest + Jendon is one option, but you'll lose FCS, and it just feels ugly to me.  However, Howlrunner could also fit.  Fly the Tempests as a block with Howl in there, and you'll deliver them into the first round of the fight with Focus and rerolls.  Second round, if Howl lives, you'll still have rerolls on your attacks if you kill the primary target.

So are TIE/x1 an improvement over a basic TIE in a classic swarm?  Not necessarily.  Is Howlrunner an improvement over the 5th Tempest in a list which is already a swarm of /x1?  Emphatically yes.

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On 7/2/2019 at 11:45 PM, Force Majeure said:

I feel it's intimidating to a number of folks to fly 6 or more ships. It's not as involved to fly a four or smaller sized list.

I agree that this is true for a lot of people. 

Weirdly, I actually have experienced the opposite in my own Xwing career.

I started out with generic swarms for almost 2 years, then moved on to 2/3 ship fat aces. I feel like that pulse-pounding endgame is where I love Xwing the most...and with 2-3 ships you practically start the game that way and keep it that way the whole game. 

Swarms put me in a weird numbers game damage race thing that I still enjoy sometimes but it's definitely not my primary playstyle now. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/4/2019 at 2:01 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

The problem is that they can't pack Trick Shot - so yes it's easy to 'park' on the middle of an obstacle and get a bonus green die, but you're likely to be offering the same to your targets as well.

You should really read the grappling struts card a bit better. You ignore asteroids at range zero, so if we follow the ruling set by what's her name (qi'ra) the enemy has no extra bonus di from you shooting from the middle of the rock. But they most definitely give you one.

Edited by Hujoe Bigs

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I don't play swarm because of the formation. I Think that would be interesting to create a mod avaliable only if you fly 8 generics without range restrictions to boost them a little

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I'm having fun with 8 Torrents ( no success but fun )   But I'm having great success with Sinker and 5 Torrents and just last week  Sinker, Padme and 4 torrents.      So full swarm and a couple mini swarms.   I've been a 4 ship rebel player for a couple years.   Going from 4 to 6-8 caused me some serious issues with bumping but its gotten better and I enjoy it.   I don't know how my brain would handle a 6 game day.. but I was exhaused with 4 ships. I doubt it will be worse.     I played 8 torrents vs 8 vulture droids.  It was fun... not boring at all.

I'm having fun with 8 Torrents ( no success but fun )   But I'm having great success with Sinker and 5 Torrents and just last week  Sinker, Padme and 4 torrents.      So full swarm and a couple mini swarms.   I've been a 4 ship rebel player for a couple years.   Going from 4 to 6-8 caused me some serious issues with bumping but its gotten better and I enjoy it.   I don't know how my brain would handle a 6 game day.. but I was exhaused with 4 ships. I doubt it will be worse.     I played 8 torrents vs 8 vulture droids.  It was fun... not boring at all.

 

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2 minutes ago, Scott Karch said:

I'm having fun with 8 Torrents ( no success but fun )   But I'm having great success with Sinker and 5 Torrents and just last week  Sinker, Padme and 4 torrents.      So full swarm and a couple mini swarms.   I've been a 4 ship rebel player for a couple years.   Going from 4 to 6-8 caused me some serious issues with bumping but its gotten better and I enjoy it.   I don't know how my brain would handle a 6 game day.. but I was exhaused with 4 ships. I doubt it will be worse.     I played 8 torrents vs 8 vulture droids.  It was fun... not boring at all.

I'm having fun with 8 Torrents ( no success but fun )   But I'm having great success with Sinker and 5 Torrents and just last week  Sinker, Padme and 4 torrents.      So full swarm and a couple mini swarms.   I've been a 4 ship rebel player for a couple years.   Going from 4 to 6-8 caused me some serious issues with bumping but its gotten better and I enjoy it.   I don't know how my brain would handle a 6 game day.. but I was exhaused with 4 ships. I doubt it will be worse.     I played 8 torrents vs 8 vulture droids.  It was fun... not boring at all.

 

A double post w/n the same post? Now that is rare. :) 8Xs can be brutal on the table. Nice to see you're enjoying them.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Scott Karch said:

not sure how I managed that... I'll leave it for posteity.  :)

Post swarm!

 

I do enjoy Torrents a **** of a lot than TIEs (wonder why...5 health agi...) though I'm an Arc man at heart

I've even enjoyed the (theory of( CuS swarm more, as they don't have to formation fly but can if they want to. Instead of Howlie, you gotta get fiddly with the probe droids which is like a whole game within a game. With networked, there's all kinds of shenanigans that could lead you to lose actions yet still fire full mods

Ofc, Vultures are basically TIEs (3 hull; no evades rolled) but with the Hyena out they aren't so shoehorned into spamming only blatant deathtraps

Basically, CiS swarm has shenanigans built in which make em more entertaining than TIEs to me. Republic swarm has ships that aren't built of green dice and failure 

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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