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Darth Meanie

One Large Base Only?

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Posted (edited)

What if the Standard dogfighting game of XWM limited you to one big base ship.  No more Triple Jumps.  No more Tripsilons.  No more Double Decis.  Han and Chewie share cockpit time.

Instead, you could have 1 Large Base Ship Only, and thus it would require support by (or give support to) a squadron of smaller ships?

Pure genius?

Or "I Cannot Lie I Love a Big Base" please go away??

Operators are standing by, post now.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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I like this a lot actually. 

I've been annoyed at the uselessness of most of the large base generics and I think this could be a good way to do it.

Make the Lothal Rebel 60 points without fear of triple Ghost (as much as it saddens me, that dream will never come true...) 

also then they could stop making unthematic generics. I'd have much rather had a Leia pilot than a generic in the Falcon. 

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1 minute ago, MegaSilver said:

Why implement this?

Like I said, it's more about making the ships close to break points priced fairly

theres a lot of large ships, especially generics, that can't possibly be priced correctly because they're overpriced now but decreasing them would allow spam that people consider bad. If only one large base ship were allowed and the Contracted Scout went down to around 25 points, it'd probably be playable finally, but as it stands, 7-8 Jumpmasters would destroy the game. 

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I think this constrains list building too much. Pricing the ships so you can't spam them is a fine solution. And I think this future-hampers Scum since a fair portion Scum content will probably be large/medium ships, 1-2 man fighters are not versatile craft for the ner-do-wells of space. If this where to be implemented, they'd have to change the sizes of some ships to allow more flexibility, and that would require a 3.0

Besides, what large base ships have seen a ton of play recently, Rebel falcon and Upsilon. 2 of like 13.

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8 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Like I said, it's more about making the ships close to break points priced fairly

theres a lot of large ships, especially generics, that can't possibly be priced correctly because they're overpriced now but decreasing them would allow spam that people consider bad. If only one large base ship were allowed and the Contracted Scout went down to around 25 points, it'd probably be playable finally, but as it stands, 7-8 Jumpmasters would destroy the game. 

It's insane to think that a contracted scout should ever be worth 25 points. That has nothing to do with this discussion.

Large base costs have nothing to do with their ability to be spammed. You can already run 4 large ship lists (jumps, scum falcons, and lambdas). None of those lists are oppressive nor are they particularly competitive. Those costs are more based around hitpoints than anything.

I just don't see any compelling argument why anyone shouldn't be able to play double decis if that's what they want to put on the table.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

What if the Standard dogfighting game of XWM limited you to one big base ship.  No more Triple Jumps.  No more Tripsilons.  No more Double Decis.  Han and Chewie share cockpit time.

Instead, you could have 1 Large Base Ship Only, and thus it would require support by (or give support to) a squadron of smaller ships?

Pure genius?

Or "I Cannot Lie I Love a Big Base" please go away??

Operators are standing by, post now.


Why?  Aside from some flukes like Hyerwave Scanning Trip-Ups and Handbrake Han (both nerfed into oblivion), large-based ships in 2.0 have generally been trash and so rarely see competitive success, especially in Hyperspace... The only exception I can think of is Maul + Dooku, but that has been hit somewhat by the recent point change.

Do they need even more restrictions put upon them?

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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I was actually just thinking of a similar idea, since making large ships “solitary” (see, they even have terminology for it!) would open up the space a little bit to see some more aggressive pricing in some instances.  But then I realized what it would hurt:

1) Separatists.  2 Infiltrators remains a viable list archetype, just not necessarily a super great one now, and with the NPE of facing 2 large bases with hate and proton torpedoes addressed, I think it remains in a good place, and shouldn’t be punished.

2) Fun, janky lists.  I don’t think there’s a storm of multiple large ships tearing up the game, outside of ridiculous lists like 4 lambdas.  Those lists are fun and goofy, and anything that reduces fun and goofy is a bad thing in my book.

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22 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Scum's full of large base bounty hunters though. 

Also, are any double large base wrecking the meta right now? Why implement this?

Future proofing.

18 minutes ago, Seraphimtoaster375 said:

I think this constrains list building too much. Pricing the ships so you can't spam them is a fine solution.

Besides, what large base ships have seen a ton of play recently, Rebel falcon and Upsilon. 2 of like 13.

Well, as @Kieransi points out, it might allow the devs to approach large base ships from a different angle in terms of design.  They would not have to worry as much about multiples becoming HP sinks and could designed them with other point breaks and the like.

Quote

And I think this future-hampers Scum since a fair portion Scum content will probably be large/medium ships, 1-2 man fighters are not versatile craft for the ner-do-wells of space. If this where to be implemented, they'd have to change the sizes of some ships to allow more flexibility, and that would require a 3.0

Say wha??

Scyks, Mining Guild TIEs, Kimogilas, Vakasi??  How is it that scum doesn't have enough snubfighter support?

Also, there are plenty of ships that could be designed to fill those shoes.  Scum probably has more possible content in any size than any other faction. . .

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28 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Scum's full of large base bounty hunters though. 

I thought more are medium. YV, Lancer and Yt1300 are large. Jumpmaster too? Scurrg, G1, Firespray, Brobots and Kimogila are medium?

Anyway, it seems to me that two large ships are rare enough to sacrifice them if they could in turn be made cheaper.

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2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Say wha??

Scyks, Mining Guild TIEs, Kimogilas, Vakasi??  How is it that scum doesn't have enough snubfighter support?

Also, there are plenty of ships that could be designed to fill those shoes.  Scum probably has more possible content in any size than any other faction. . .

The most possible, but how many of them have any documentation out side of a passing reference in a book, or single panel in a comic. How many are any kind of Iconic. Most scum ships belong to smugglers and bounty hunters, who need bigger ships. There are mercenary forces that use snub fighters, but a lot of them are either already implemented, or have next to no information about them.

That being said, there is NO excuse for the cloakshape fighter to NOT be in the game already

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Posted (edited)

What you are trying to do is limit generics on the table for large bases, personally in this edition there is no need for it. If you want to see more generics though at a good price and not see them spammed, I would rather see them cut their costs but add a limiter dot to it. So you could only run 2 generic ghosts at say, 63 points. Then you could run a 3rd ghost only if it was a named one. Limiting ships because of base size is generally a terrible idea. 

Edited by Hujoe Bigs

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Why?  Aside from some flukes like Hyerwave Scanning Trip-Ups and Handbrake Han (both nerfed into oblivion), large-based ships in 2.0 have generally been trash and so rarely see competitive success, especially in Hyperspace... The only exception I can think of is Maul + Dooku, but that has been hit somewhat by the recent point change.

Do they need even more restrictions put upon them?

For one thing, since they are trash, knowing the can't be spammed might allow them to be designed to be more potent.  Maybe not with guns or maneuverability, but rather with crew and upgrades that support the large ship or the actions of the smaller ships.

9 minutes ago, Hujoe Bigs said:

 Limiting ships because of base size is general a terrible idea. 

Obviously you've never played Epic.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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35 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

I just don't see any compelling argument why anyone shouldn't be able to play double decis if that's what they want to put on the table.

The argument is more that nobody should be able to put triple decis on the table but the patrol leader should probably be less than 66. 

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10 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Obviously you've never played Epic.

I have, and any one person worth his weight in salt will spam better, cost effective small ships to help achieve better firing arcs and minimizing his own return fire.

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I like this a lot.

One of my least favorite features of the way X-Wing squad building works is that you can have Chewbacca, Han, and Lando all in the same list flying a YT-1300 (ignoring points for the purpose of this discussion). They all flew the Millennium Falcon, not a bunch of random YT-1300s. List building should be "Okay, I want to bring the Millennium Falcon, now who's flying it?" not "OPEN THE TIME PORTAL!"

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26 minutes ago, Hujoe Bigs said:

I have, and any one person worth his weight in salt will spam better, cost effective small ships to help achieve better firing arcs and minimizing his own return fire.

Sorry, that came off snarkier than I intended.

My actual point was that my limiting Larges to 1 per list, they could become the "Huge Ship" of Standard Play: you get a single beefy ship that becomes the "set piece" of your list.

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4 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

I like this a lot.

One of my least favorite features of the way X-Wing squad building works is that you can have Chewbacca, Han, and Lando all in the same list flying a YT-1300 (ignoring points for the purpose of this discussion). They all flew the Millennium Falcon, not a bunch of random YT-1300s. List building should be "Okay, I want to bring the Millennium Falcon, now who's flying it?" not "OPEN THE TIME PORTAL!"

Dude. We have Separatists fighting the First Order now. Time is a flat circle.

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