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cdalman

Torkil Mux vs. Swarm Tactics

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Heightened Perception, Roark Garnet, and Torkil Mux all affect when a target engages.  "...Engage at initiative [X] instead of your (standard/normal) initiative."

Swarm Tactics affects a ship's initiative.  "...that ship treats its initiative as equal to yours..."

Both happen at the start of the Engagement phase.

Question: What's the interaction between Torkil Mux and Swarm Tactics? 

Example: If Torkil Mux has initiative and he uses his ability on Luke Skywalker to cause him to engage at Initiative 0, does it matter if Wedge then uses Swarm Tactics to raise Luke's initiative to 6, since he's now engaging at an initiative different than his own?  It seems that RAW, Heightened Perception, Roark, and Torkil break the link between pilot initiative and when the pilot engages, so changing the initiative after Torkil does his thing should be irrelevant.

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Just to expand, page 12 of the Rules Reference has the answer:
"If several abilities alter the initiative of a ship, only the most recent ability
is applied.
◊ If the most recent effect ends (such as “at the end of the Engagement
Phase”), the ship’s initiative returns to the initiative established by the
most recent ability that is still active."

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2 hours ago, Vespid1311 said:

Just to expand, page 12 of the Rules Reference has the answer:
"If several abilities alter the initiative of a ship, only the most recent ability
is applied.
◊ If the most recent effect ends (such as “at the end of the Engagement
Phase”), the ship’s initiative returns to the initiative established by the
most recent ability that is still active."

But Torkil does not alter the initiative of the ship, merely when the ship engages, thus separating engagement initiative from ship initiative.  That's my reading anyway.  

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9 minutes ago, cdalman said:

But Torkil does not alter the initiative of the ship, merely when the ship engages, thus separating engagement initiative from ship initiative.  That's my reading anyway.  

Correct.

 

Both Torkil and Roark alter when a ship engages, but do not change its initiative, which means that whichever of them acted most recently takes precedence, but neither affects Swarm Tactics - so, if Wedge is made to act at 7 by Roark then 0 by Torkil, he'll act at 0, but he can still pass on his init 6 to an ally with Swarm Tactics.  But conversely, if Wedge is affected by Roark, he can still only pass on iit 6 via Swarm Tactics, even though he acts at 7.

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Maybe I'm a bit stupid but none of the above words make it especially clear to me :D

Been looking for a view on Heightened Perception vs Torkil. Would I be right in saying that it all boils down to player order? 

So...

1st player has HP... Activating as 2nd player, Torkil says no you don't.

As 1st player, Torkil declares Init 0... 2nd player, with HP, says Init 7 baby!

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8 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Maybe I'm a bit stupid but none of the above words make it especially clear to me :D

Been looking for a view on Heightened Perception vs Torkil. Would I be right in saying that it all boils down to player order? 

So...

1st player has HP... Activating as 2nd player, Torkil says no you don't.

As 1st player, Torkil declares Init 0... 2nd player, with HP, says Init 7 baby!

Correct.  They both change the time at which you engage, at the same timing window, so second player wins.

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9 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Maybe I'm a bit stupid but none of the above words make it especially clear to me :D

Been looking for a view on Heightened Perception vs Torkil. Would I be right in saying that it all boils down to player order? 

So...

1st player has HP... Activating as 2nd player, Torkil says no you don't.

As 1st player, Torkil declares Init 0... 2nd player, with HP, says Init 7 baby!

This exact scenario actually came up in a game last night.  Unfortunately I was player 1, with Perception.  So I ended up shooting at 0 thanks to Mux.

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6 hours ago, Bort said:

This exact scenario actually came up in a game last night.  Unfortunately I was player 1, with Perception.  So I ended up shooting at 0 thanks to Mux.

One of many considerations when factoring in a bid and deciding if you want to be first or second player :)

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