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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ignithas said:

I tested with a Unicorn player and for HMT I don't think that Miya Satoshi fits. If you buy him t1-t2, you lose too much preasure. And in HMT you need to preasure your oponent as early as possible, because without Djinn you pretty much lose any attricion battle.

You don't buy him turn 1 for sure turn 2 depends on how well your turn 1 went and what other options you have for purchases.

Toturi is crucial for closing out games so having a couple extra copies of him is essential in the absence of UtD.

Until the necessary cards to build a more traditional swarm deck are available (coming soon in the inheritance cycle) then Charge based blitz off HMT is Unicorn's only legitimate option.

The y have, as you said, no real shot at the attrition game.  So you have to win quick and to do that you'll have to invest a lot from your conflict hand which generally leaves you way behind.

Toturi nullifies any significant hand advantage your opponent might have since he effectively makes their hand size equal to yours +1.

The most successful Unicorn deck I've found is with Dragon splash, going all in to break as many provinces as you can on turn 1.  Then looking for the best opportunity to close with Toturi.

 

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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47 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

You don't buy him turn 1 for sure turn 2 depends on how well your turn 1 went and what other options you have for purchases.

Toturi is crucial for closing out games so having a couple extra copies of him is essential in the absence of UtD.

Until the necessary cards to build a more traditional swarm deck are available (coming soon in the inheritance cycle) then Charge based blitz off HMT is Unicorn's only legitimate option.

The y have, as you said, no real shot at the attrition game.  So you have to win quick and to do that you'll have to invest a lot from your conflict hand which generally leaves you way behind.

Toturi nullifies any significant hand advantage your opponent might have since he effectively makes their hand size equal to yours +1.

The most successful Unicorn deck I've found is with Dragon splash, going all in to break as many provinces as you can on turn 1.  Then looking for the best opportunity to close with Toturi.

 

I don't think that Toturi is necessary and I am not even sure he has a place in the current deck. I like Minami Kaze Regulars more, because they are charge targets in the early game, Cavalry Flank targets in the mid game, can be sacrificed and work with Kyora.

That said I am currently on the Lion splash, because Strength in Numbers is nuts in Unicorn and Hand to Hand works as a poor mans Let Go.

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4 hours ago, Ignithas said:

I tested with a Unicorn player and for HMT I don't think that Miya Satoshi fits. If you buy him t1-t2, you lose too much preasure. And in HMT you need to preasure your oponent as early as possible, because without Djinn you pretty much lose any attricion battle.

It really depends on your build, the full Aggro HMT Unicorn its not ideal, but if you are playing a more tempo based midrange deck (or using Shiro Shinjo) then there is more value in him.  No question losing Djinn hurt the mid range deck, but there are still ways to make it work using alternate pressure tactics like send home and economic advantage from cards like Tetsuko to force wins.

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On 7/10/2019 at 3:36 PM, Schmoozies said:

It really depends on your build, the full Aggro HMT Unicorn its not ideal, but if you are playing a more tempo based midrange deck (or using Shiro Shinjo) then there is more value in him.  No question losing Djinn hurt the mid range deck, but there are still ways to make it work using alternate pressure tactics like send home and economic advantage from cards like Tetsuko to force wins.

Satoshi works in a value based midrange deck, but Unicorns midrange deck is laughably bad atm. And even this deck probably won't play Gates of Meido, because their characters don't create enough value. Phoenix with an air role will play Satoshi, because the deck only works with the Fuchiko in the discard pile. But Meido is also not a good include in this one.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Ignithas said:

Satoshi works in a value based midrange deck, but Unicorns midrange deck is laughably bad atm.

Agree and disagree here.  Unicorn midrange is laughable, indeed.  They are pretty much stuck with a be quick or be dead approach.  Satoshi doesn't really help in the midrange game.  The stats are average for a 4 drop and if you're wanting to try and get some sort of board advantage Satoshi is likely digging past some important characters for you.

This is why I currently believe that the only good build for Satoshi in Unicorn, is Toturi Blitz.  Toturi and Favor control are essential to establish and Satoshi goes a long way to getting this done, while also filling your discard for an optimal Cav Reserves play.

For the upcoming swarm deck that will be viable after the inheritance dynasty cycle, Satoshi doesn't have a place in that deck, but, he always have a home in a deck that is counting on a key imperial card(s) and is able to leverage the discard pile.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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On 7/1/2019 at 7:52 PM, twinstarbmc said:

Gateway, Taka, Eager Scout, Yasuki Broker, Talisman of the Sun, Prayers to Ebisu, Vanguard Warrior, Levy. 

https://fiveringsdb.com/strains/15acc716-956a-11e9-804d-22d334ba48b8/view

Well, I faced against it. And it hurt. It took me from 22 honor down to 0 in a single conflict. Every deck I ever make from now on is going to have all the attachment hate and blanking effects I can possibly find. Everyone should play this deck until Gateway to Meido goes on the RL. You know it will.

I’m still an idiot newbie - can someone breakdown why this deck is so good?

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1 hour ago, Kani Kantai said:

I’m still an idiot newbie - can someone breakdown why this deck is so good?

It isn't. There are a lot of dubious choices in the quoted decklist.

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1 hour ago, Ignithas said:

It isn't. There are a lot of dubious choices in the quoted decklist.

Ok good - I was really scratching my head as to why this was supposed to be a killer deck.

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On 7/21/2019 at 6:39 AM, Kani Kantai said:

Ok good - I was really scratching my head as to why this was supposed to be a killer deck.

Yea, this particular iteration of it is extremely janky and went full in on the "Combo or bust" strategy. When it works, it'll look amazing, but it is almost certainly not consistent in any way.

 

The much better version of the deck looks an awful lot like the original Unicorn splash deck (before Spyglass was RL'd) but upping Talismans to 3x, adding in a few WotCs and maybe assassinations, Brokers, Taka and definitely including cards like Defend Your Honor, 3x Fight On and removing the Levy stuff.  It uses Meido mostly for value (additional kaiu envoys, Vanguard warriors and Shrewd Yasukis) but with the added benefit of maybe popping off and taking the game to such a point that your opponent would be hard pressed to overcome the economic and card advantage the combo provides for you.

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So, how does this deck change with the new Crab Clan pack spoilers?  Or does this finally give Crab a new deck design to explore? 

Seeing the Walls coming back and remembering all the problems they created in the old game made me cringe a bit when I first looked at them.  At least they are not a straight up alt win con this time around, but, it looks like there is potential for some serious jank.

Just the idea of the Kaiu Daimyo removing all the holdings from the deck to make your dynasty deck super trim to exploit "random" top deck/face down mechanics makes me want to brew something with the Crab...……...but at the same I am completely terrified of some new busted deck coming out of the Crab.  I am glad that at least the new stronghold action can be used in the dynasty phase, or that would be pretty bonkers.

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7 hours ago, RafaelNN said:

I dont know if its efficient, competitive, or broken. But I find it very thematic that the crab at last have a builing fortresses playstyle. And thats a playstyle that attracts me to play the clan.

Its defiantly efficient. More than likely too efficient, pushing it into the broken section, therefore making it competitive. 

You have the new stronghold which will filter through the dynasty faster, meaning more keepers/holdings/Characters in the discard pile for your to recur with rebuild/ring wins/Gateway. It also means if you are digging for a key character you have 7 chances of seeing them rather than 4. Also if you are doing some sort of crab rush you can by 5 people a turn.

You then have Kaiu Shihobu who can filter out EVERY holding in the deck. Having less cards in a deck means you are more likely to see the cards you need consistently. When a combo like  gateway to meido exists it baffles me that they made a card to help make it easier to find key cards via deck thinning.

The design intention is great, fun and a direction I like, but these cards are too good. Kyūden Hida needed to only work if you have holdings in play already or only buy as many people as there are holdings (promoting the play-style it was made for). 

Kaiu Shihobu might be fine, but I probably would have made it just Kaiu Wall holdings as they are just going to run into the same design problem with having rebuild exist. Toolbox holdings. It means they cant make any more good holdings for crab anymore because she AND Rebuild exists.  

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3 hours ago, Jamadman said:

You then have Kaiu Shihobu who can filter out EVERY holding in the deck. Having less cards in a deck means you are more likely to see the cards you need consistently. When a combo like  gateway to meido exists it baffles me that they made a card to help make it easier to find key cards via deck thinning.

By my calculation, you could currently have a max of 31 holdings right now in the game. The article confirmed 6 new ones that are 1 copy each, bringing the total after the clan pack to 37.

That... could lead to some interesting guarantee set ups.

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I'm guessing the Crab pack is going to have some sort of holding removal or ignoring options included, or else there's something else on the way with it. When Secluded Shrine was added to the Restricted List, it came with a caveat that the restriction was only temporary and that it would be unrestricted again once certain cards to deal with it came along down the pipeline. 

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Posted (edited)

The Jade Throne podcast predict some of these cards point to Satoshi going on the RL list.  I think I agree with them.  We are seeing more reasonable cards in this article filling that Satoshi function in the Crab deck potentially.  Also RLing Satoshi would probably be a good thing in my opinion for the game.

Well this pack is certainly getting me excited to play the game more.  I desperately want more variety in viable Crab deck builds.  O-Ushi looks fantastic and it's great that she's cheap so isn't fighting for the 4 and 5 cost slot Crab cards.  She can easily slot into a deck with her other family members.  Now we just need Sukune so we can collect the whole Hida set.  I'd like to see some updated art for that guy.  Preferably not one of him tied to a banner pole.

Edited by phillos

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2 hours ago, Simplegarak said:

By my calculation, you could currently have a max of 31 holdings right now in the game. The article confirmed 6 new ones that are 1 copy each, bringing the total after the clan pack to 37.

That... could lead to some interesting guarantee set ups.

Or you don't see the Kaiu Daimyo and have a deck clogged with Holdings.

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The Kaiu is going to be major sad times when she gets clouded and you opponents goes "whew, thanks for taking care of that busted holdings problems for me". But yeah, Dragon splash seems like the good call here.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah that makes her a bit more reasonable.  Crabs were already worried about cloud since their current way to fish for holdings is Satoshi/Rebuild and that guy always gets clouded right away in my experience.  The difference is this character is much more expensive.  Satoshi clouded makes me sad but at least he's still a 4 cost 4 strength political body in Crab.  So it's not the end of the world.  Shihobu stat-wise is fine for a Crab 5 coster but she's definitely in the middle of the pack.  I'd be much more interested in protecting my investment with her.  Especially considering she can cripple your deck if she get's clouded and you were depending on those holdings.  They just get stuck under the stronghold right?  They are effectively removed from the game if she can't trigger her action.

Edited by phillos

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Posted (edited)

I think the thing with Shihobu is that even if she gets clouded you're likely going to dig into a new copy of her fairly regularly.  Thining out all the holdings and then being able to look an extra 3 cards deep with the new stronghold should make it pretty easy to get a new copy of her.

Don't make her your tower, just milk the utility out of her

 

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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21 hours ago, Evilgm said:

Or you don't see the Kaiu Daimyo and have a deck clogged with Holdings.

With the new stronghold, that risk is greatly lessened.

On 7/31/2019 at 4:22 AM, Jamadman said:

Also if you are doing some sort of crab rush you can by 5 people a turn.

The funny part is that the fix for the stronghold would have been easy - "look at X cards & play X people where X is how many holdings you have."

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On 7/30/2019 at 6:50 PM, Ishi Tonu said:

So, how does this deck change with the new Crab Clan pack spoilers?  Or does this finally give Crab a new deck design to explore? 

Seeing the Walls coming back and remembering all the problems they created in the old game made me cringe a bit when I first looked at them.  At least they are not a straight up alt win con this time around, but, it looks like there is potential for some serious jank.

Just the idea of the Kaiu Daimyo removing all the holdings from the deck to make your dynasty deck super trim to exploit "random" top deck/face down mechanics makes me want to brew something with the Crab...……...but at the same I am completely terrified of some new busted deck coming out of the Crab.  I am glad that at least the new stronghold action can be used in the dynasty phase, or that would be pretty bonkers.

I'd personally be surprised if Meido is not changed or restricted in some way. The Crab clan pack will likely create a new deck. There may be good cards that you can plug into the Meido deck, but I don't know if we've seen any of them yet. It may use the new stronghold just as an additional feeding effect though (but, at the same time, buying 3 envoys, an eager scout and a Hida Guardian and then old-boxing to give yourself +5/+5 in the conflict is legitimately amazing).

The Daimyo is amazing and the Wall pieces are going to be very good and may create some NPE scenarios...We'll just have to wait and see.

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22 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

I'd personally be surprised if Meido is not changed or restricted in some way. The Crab clan pack will likely create a new deck. There may be good cards that you can plug into the Meido deck, but I don't know if we've seen any of them yet. It may use the new stronghold just as an additional feeding effect though (but, at the same time, buying 3 envoys, an eager scout and a Hida Guardian and then old-boxing to give yourself +5/+5 in the conflict is legitimately amazing).

The Daimyo is amazing and the Wall pieces are going to be very good and may create some NPE scenarios...We'll just have to wait and see.

The biggest issue I see happening is that Satoshi, new Daimyo, Karada District and rebuild can easily shut down any deck that relies on attachments.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ignithas said:

The biggest issue I see happening is that Satoshi, new Daimyo, Karada District and rebuild can easily shut down any deck that relies on attachments.

Peasant's Advice is your friend.

No I'm not trying to be snarky with some sort of "dies to removal" or "counterspell" equivalency argument. 

I just think it's a highly underrated card that helps a couple issues most decks want to have answers for.

Being able to look at a face down province is important and not all clans have reliable ways to do this.

Shuffling something back into the Dynasty deck after they use Satoshi and a Rebuild to get it out there is a pretty nice trade off.  At the very least it's going to force them to come up with that interaction a 2nd time, and, you might be able to disrupt that plan before they get to do it again.

With Phoenix pushing the "Charging Chicken" deck, and them also wanting their relevant holdings, it's a good card to combat that deck.

Being able to scout out Crane and Scorpion provinces so you don't run into the wrong ones is quite helpful.

I'd say PA is relevant against what is largely considered to be the top 4 decks/clans...……...yet, I rarely see PA on any list out there.  Heck I mostly play Unicorn and have access to Wayfinder, but, I'm still packing PA to make sure I can always scout a province on turn 1 and to give me some utility against problematic dynasty flips/holdings.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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+1 for peasant advice. 

I've seen a discord WC game today where lion with Favor was at opponent stronghold with an Ujiaki ready to be charged for the kill, and that Ujiaki got discarded by peasant's advice... The kill failed and lion got DHed. 

Beyond the scouting, the discarding of a character or holding can be used quite effectively. 

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