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BlastyMcBlasterFace

Is i4 the new i5?

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With the new point changes will the average level of initiative drop?  I've never liked to run the highest initiative ships because the cost just seems hard to me to swallow.

In particular, I have a 200 point list with ObiWan + R2 in it.  Or I could switch that out with Mace with a shield upgrade.  The other ships are 3 torrents and Ric with Juke+R2. 

Is i5 even worth it if there is no bid?

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8 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Hopefully we'll get to focus on the actual pilot abilities/ship rather than bid wars

 

Speaking of, if I 4 is "the new I 5", then I 5 is "the new I 6"

 

Yes, indeed.  

If Mace and ObiWan were the same initiative and cost, who would you think was better?

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Agreed. Mace Windu's 3 force is great, as is his ability to recover force faster than normal, but without any specific ability to spend the force on, what he has is basically a cut-price stock of focus tokens.....which Obi-wan kind of has too, but can pass to other wingmen as needed.

 

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15 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Obi ofc

Regardless of bid, getting simultaneous fire on other I 5 and the potential to intiative kill I 4 is big

Plus Obi has a really good support ability, especially for our new agility 2 friends 

(Also, memes)

 

5 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Agreed. Mace Windu's 3 force is great, as is his ability to recover force faster than normal, but without any specific ability to spend the force on, what he has is basically a cut-price stock of focus tokens.....which Obi-wan kind of has too, but can pass to other wingmen as needed.

 

Well, the thing is most people that I know fly Obi (myself included) only fly Obi because he's an I5 with 3 force; his ability is rarely used.

 

So in this instance, if Mace was also I5, I would be using him more often since he can simply regen faster than Obi. It also means I can be more aggressive with him. I mean I've already been doing that before the points change with Annie/Mace/Wolffe lists I had flown before.

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I'm still over here trying to make Dedicated work, have found Obi's ability to help these guys out a lot too. 

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)    
    Sense (5)    
    R5 Astromech (4)    
    Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)    
    
Ship total: 60  Half Points: 30  Threshold: 2    
    
Ric Olié (42)    
    R2 Astromech (4)    
    
Ship total: 46  Half Points: 23  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (28)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 29  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (28)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 29  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (28)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 29  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 193    
    
 

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3 minutes ago, FriendofYoda said:

I'm still over here trying to make Dedicated work, have found Obi's ability to help these guys out a lot too. 

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)    
    Sense (5)    
    R5 Astromech (4)    
    Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)    
    
Ship total: 60  Half Points: 30  Threshold: 2    
    
Ric Olié (42)    
    R2 Astromech (4)    
    
Ship total: 46  Half Points: 23  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (28)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 29  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (28)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 29  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (28)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 29  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 193    
    
 

I think you just sold me on Republic.

My poor wallet :(

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Mace's ability makes him prime for taking a force upgrade. I have been messing around with him with Predictive Shot and Heightened Perception. For 1 point, Predictive Shot almost seems like an auto include on Mace. Dropping the 7B and going with Calibrated Laser Targeting will save you a ton of points and help him punch hard when he gets the bullseye. With him at I4 though it can be hard to bullseye a higher initiative ace so I use him to beat up on the lower I stuff and less maneuverable ships.

Here's a new list I have been tinkering with:

Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)    
    Predictive Shot (1)    
    Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)    
    
Ship total: 52  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 2    
    
Mace Windu (45)    
    Predictive Shot (1)    
    R4 Astromech (2)    
    Calibrated Laser Targeting (3)    
    
Ship total: 51  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 2    
    
Luminara Unduli (43)    
Ship total: 43  Half Points: 22  Threshold: 2    
    
Ric Olié (42)    
    Juke (7)    
    
Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 195    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZsZ200Z278X203WW200WY314X203W5W200WY274XWWWY333X123WWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

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12 minutes ago, FriendofYoda said:

One of us, one of us!

My local group has a few that have converted but I've only just jumped in myself.

Just ordered GotR and the Aethersprite. Don't love ARCs, but I'll be picking up an N-1 soon :D

Amazing how cheap it is to get a perfectly viable list in Republic.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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46 minutes ago, Arc170Chris said:

If you are running a jedi with generic arcs or torrents, battle mediation now seems quite viable and great action economy. Could work well on Mace

I’ve been flying it since before he change and it was effective. However my old list with it was able to upgrade from a Jedi Knight to Luminara

2x104th

2x Gold with concussion missiles

Luminara CLT Battle Meditation

Played at a smaller tournament and went undefeated with it.

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1 hour ago, MegaSilver said:

So in this instance, if Mace was also I5, I would be using him more often since he can simply regen faster than Obi. It also means I can be more aggressive with him. I mean I've already been doing that before the points change with Annie/Mace/Wolffe lists I had flown before.

Mace has been my most used Jedi. As you said, he is an aggressive piece and you need to use him as such. But his ability allows him to be more generous spending force, and force powers work well on him. Supernatural Mace is one of my favorite things to fly.

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Only if the ability is relevant. Sure, OSA is a cool cheaper defender that can function still as a point fortress, but that Rex ability for 6 pt. is just too good: plus, his Juke triggers far more often at I5. Let's not even discuss the disparity between Rex's insane self-sufficiency vs. the named I4's. Further down this rabbit hole, Duchess even without the great ability functions as a proper pocket ace. Contrastingly, Countdown and Sabaac are aware of their mortality and are thus knights and bishops to be exchanged for a better endgame.

 

On the other hand, with Echo being bumped only 1 pt. and outmaneuver the same cost as before, him as an annoying midgame piece can now be discussed in the same sentence as whisper. Similarly, Mace at I4 is straight up better than Plo when both have the 7B title: 6 hp is a lot for an acey thing, allowing the better ability and better force count shine.

I4 is not the new I5. Rather, I4 is chosen instead of I5 when compelling abilities and chassis make the argument. I5 was and is the popular ace initiative because it holds superiority over most of the field, yet has access to the chassis of superships (Wedge has low action efficiency and 2 agi, Vader has no native boost and doesn't like being jammed, Soontir is fragile, Fenn is doomed at all ranges except 1 and 3 obstructed and can't squirrel too easily, Fac has no native bank boost and is dependent on facing small ships to save his fragile ***, Anakin has to pick his poison (bleeding due to 2 agi, not dealing damage with 2 reds, or losing the mod slot to get the bullseye dependent clt), Poe has 2 agi and can only take 1 astro out of the many that help him (and is costed as of he has force!), and Midnight is a tie fighter and Quickdraw has to jump through hoops for action efficiency to make best of that ability (and has 2 agi with no native boost!). Sure, the likes of Guri, Kylo, Corran, Rexler, Grand Inky, etc. have awesome ships, but the players sacrificed a little bit of initiative to flex what initiative they have. I6 is still very good, but taking it is also accepting its limitations.

You don't see I4 closers or dedicated aces. They trade the I5 advantages for helping out the opening and midgame. I4 is finally popular given the right circumstances, but it is functionally different than i6 and its overeager little brother i5.

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48 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Supernatural Mace is one of my favorite things to fly.

That sound AMAZING. SR for 16 points is a pretty good deal, and with the meta leaning much harder (hopefully) into the I2-4 category, he could be extremely powerful against low-I ships and still have great action economy against High-I.

I'm just looking forward to unlocking the true potential of SR Quiz and SR Luke now that I5 has thinned out a little. Expensive? Yep. Worth it? TOTALLY.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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9 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

That sound AMAZING. SR for 16 points is a pretty good deal, and with the meta leaning much harder (hopefully) into the I2-4 category, he could be extremely powerful against low-I ships and still have great action economy against High-I.

I'm just looking forward to unlocking the true potential of SR Quiz and SR Luke now that I5 has thinned out a little. Expensive? Yep. Worth it? TOTALLY.

Do you know what the secret sauce (for me) has been?

Sense Saeese Tin. Throw an Arc or two Torrents in there for fill and go to town. Also R4-P17 for Mace. It’s 83 points of BAMF.

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3 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Do you know what the secret sauce (for me) has been?

Sense Saeese Tin. Throw an Arc or two Torrents in there for fill and go to town. Also R4-P17 for Mace. It’s 83 points of BAMF.

Something like this?


Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)    
    Sense (5)    - maybe drop this for a bigger bid as only 1 is needed?
    R5 Astromech (4)    
    Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)    
    
Ship total: 60  Half Points: 30  Threshold: 2    
    
Ric Olié (42)    
    Outmaneuver (6)    
    Advanced Sensors (10)    
    R2 Astromech (4)    
    
Ship total: 62  Half Points: 31  Threshold: 3    
    
Saesee Tiin (43)    
    Sense (5)    
    
Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 2    
    
Gold Squadron Trooper (25)    
Ship total: 25  Half Points: 13  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 195    
    
 

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The beauty of the Jedi @FriendofYoda, I don’t think there is a wrong choice.

But subbing Ric is something I’ll have to consider. I’ve typically been using Wolffe as my third. Big scary gun that takes some killing. Your opponent can’t ignore him, but neither is he the top priority. So go ahead, ignore Wolffe. I dare you.

But Ric… that is intriguing!

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1 hour ago, millertime059 said:

I’ve been flying it since before he change and it was effective. However my old list with it was able to upgrade from a Jedi Knight to Luminara

2x104th

2x Gold with concussion missiles

Luminara CLT Battle Meditation

Played at a smaller tournament and went undefeated with it.

I have as well, but slightly different. I've run ahsoka and obi with two arcs with proton torps. Great fun. If you use Clusters instead of Concussion, can you go to Mace? Not sure if you would want too. 

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