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BrotherFett

Missiles

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I think Missiles should be kept at 3 dice for almost all of them.  I don't think there should be any Missiles with more than 3 dice that go beyond Range 1.  It's a balance thing.  Yes, it would be nice to have some that did more, but it would also probably break the game.  So, whatever Missiles you want, just make sure they don't go over 3 red dice beyond R1. 

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I'm with @svelok , 1 point cheaper missiles would go a long way.  They're not too far off.

That said, I'd like some sort of cheaper version of a Proton Rockets with fewer dice but more charges.  3 points, 3 dice, 3 charges, range 1-3 bullseye, no text other than "Attack: Focus."  Is that too strong for the desired cheapness?  I'd rather lower the power (range 1-2, 2 charges) than increase the cost.  That'd be a really great upgrade for a lot of the cheap missile ships like A-Wings, as a tool to give then a little more punch, but it's not automatic, like Barrage Rockets (I may be in the minority, but I really hate Barrage Rockets...).

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I've pondered the idea of a generic missle. Something like 3 dice, 2-3 range, 3 charges, and no special ability.  Basically a cheap missle whose only purpose is to grant a three dice attack that denies a range bonus to the target.

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Missile slots are everywhere, so realistically, no missile should ever come close to the power level of proton torpedos. What I would like to see is more focus missiles. My ideal missile would probably look something like this:

 

Attack:Focus. 2 dice. Range 2-3. 3 charges.

If this attack hits, cancel all dice results, then the defender suffers 2 damage.

 

Gives 2 dice ships like Z-95s and A-Wings a missile that would be simultaneously worth using but not overwhelming when spammed.

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5 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

Attack:Focus. 2 dice. Range 2-3. 3 charges.

If this attack hits, cancel all dice results, then the defender suffers 2 damage.

 

Gives 2 dice ships like Z-95s and A-Wings a missile that would be simultaneously worth using but not overwhelming when spammed.

Lets not try to bring back TLT in missile form, even at 2 die...

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ridge363 said:

I've pondered the idea of a generic missle. Something like 3 dice, 2-3 range, 3 charges, and no special ability.  Basically a cheap missle whose only purpose is to grant a three dice attack that denies a range bonus to the target.

That would be a concussion missile. They added the damage card flipping ability to differentiate it somewhat from a regular old attack, but otherwise it's exactly what you're looking for. If they were a point or two cheaper I imagine they would be very popular. 

Edit: or are you hoping for something without a lock or focus requirement?

Edited by Covered in Weasels

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To my mind, missiles should be more accurate than Torpedoes, but won't hit as hard. My ideal missile would be something like this:

4 dice, range 2-3, 3 charges.

During the Compare Results step, crits are cancelled before hits.

At the start of the Neutralize Results step, if there are more than two hit/crit results remaining, you must cancel one hit/crit.

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2 hours ago, Covered in Weasels said:

Edit: or are you hoping for something without a lock or focus requirement?

I was thinking of a simple dice attack upgrade for 2 dice ships or pilots with a secondary weapon skill. Having a TL requirement would keep it balanced away from a straight atk upgrade. That is my general idea. This could just be end up being an auto-include that locks out other upgrades. Not too sure.

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49 minutes ago, Ridge363 said:

I was thinking of a simple dice attack upgrade for 2 dice ships or pilots with a secondary weapon skill. Having a TL requirement would keep it balanced away from a straight atk upgrade. That is my general idea. This could just be end up being an auto-include that locks out other upgrades. Not too sure.

Look at concussion missiles, those are pretty much what you want.

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8 hours ago, svelok said:

I'd be satisfied if most of the current missiles were just 1-2 points cheaper.

I think this is a most valid point.

Most ships that can take missiles already have a 3 die attack, so you’re buying an ability pretty much. A ship that can take missiles and has the reload action can normally take torps too so will buy into that better deal of a 4 die attack instead. 

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25 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

Look at concussion missiles, those are pretty much what you want.

I think they don't like the proximity based card flip part of the upgrade. Probably don't like taking that type of risk with their damaged blockers.

Concussion Missiles

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19 hours ago, BrotherFett said:

I just played a game with Krassis in his firespray and now I want more missile options. What non faction specific missiles would you like to see developed for the game?

You and everyone else. We all have these wacky weapon effect that's not worth the cost in points as terrible choices for the missile slot that often the best one is to chose none.

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3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

I think they don't like the proximity based card flip part of the upgrade. Probably don't like taking that type of risk with their damaged blockers.

Concussion Missiles

Having played with concussions on Talli, the biggest problem is giving up any defensive mods on the turn you establish your lock. The target lock requirement is the #2 thing keeping missiles down in my opinion (cost being #1)

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4 hours ago, hargleblarg said:

Missile slots are everywhere, so realistically, no missile should ever come close to the power level of proton torpedos. What I would like to see is more focus missiles. My ideal missile would probably look something like this:

 

Attack:Focus. 2 dice. Range 2-3. 3 charges.

If this attack hits, cancel all dice results, then the defender suffers 2 damage.

 

Gives 2 dice ships like Z-95s and A-Wings a missile that would be simultaneously worth using but not overwhelming when spammed.

One thing I don't like about this design is that it radically over-punishes low-agility ships.  It's pretty much two auto-damage against a Ghost or Decimator.  Reinforce, moreover, does absolutely nothing against these missiles.

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The majority of missiles are overpriced for both what they do and what is likely to take them. Most ships taking a missile are a primary Attack 2, so they're taking a missile for some flex in damage two or three times per game. They're not really taking it for the effect, because the effects are relatively underwhelming compared to most modified primary options (ie, choice of targets). I'm ok with missiles being Attack 3 unless they have some particularly special ability, but it's a hefty tax on actual ordnance specialist ships across all factions for what are a series of pretty lacklustre abilities to ask for the current points values. I can't see many, if any primary Attack 3 ships being bothered with missiles at any price above 2 points if they're not getting the extra die for the setup, so I can't imagine it contributing to any kind of overpowering of some ships. I know the Jamming Beam doesn't do damage, but it's free and people still don't take it as a set-up device because it's still more efficient to just fire primaries.

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Posted (edited)

I agree that a lot of missiles are just not really worth it on a 3 attack ship. I find the abilities generally aren't worth the points cost on a ship that already has a 3 attack primary. So, what about a missile that is meant to add a little punch to attack for any ship it is equipped on?

Attack: Focus. Attack dice X+1 (where X is equal to the ship's primary attack value). Range 2-3. 2 Charges. Cost scaled against primary attack value: 2 attack = 4 points, 3 attack = 6 points... I can't think of any but in case there are missile carriers with 1 or 4 attack die primaries, my thinking was that each charge is worth the primary attack value in points. So 1 attack - 2 points and 4 attack = 8 points (although I'm not sure on points values??).

Pretty simple, boosts firepower, useful to any missile carrier, but needs to be used at opportune times.

Thought about maybe including: If the defender is in your bullseye arc, change 1 focus result to a hit. But that would obviously increase the cost and I thought a cheap missile option to boost firepower without any special abilities inflating the cost would be better a simple as possible. 

Edited by Unit34

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31 minutes ago, Unit34 said:

Attack: Focus. Attack dice X+1 (where X is equal to the ship's primary attack value). Range 2-3. 2 Charges. Cost scaled against primary attack value: 2 attack = 4 points, 3 attack = 6 points... I can't think of any but in case there are missile carriers with 1 or 4 attack die primaries, my thinking was that each charge is worth the primary attack value in points. So 1 attack - 2 points and 4 attack = 8 points (although I'm not sure on points values??).

Kimogila's and Andrasta Krassis would love this. Cruise along and blurp out 4 die shots with no issue for the cost of a concussion missile...

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Kimogila's and Andrasta Krassis would love this. Cruise along and blurp out 4 die shots with no issue for the cost of a concussion missile...

Yea, but I figured with low charges at least they would have to reload. Might be worth making it a non-reloadable device to prevent spam? Or make it bullseye arc only? Or small base only? I really just want something to give RZ-1 A-wings a little more punch once in a while. Small base only would probably the easiest way to fix that issue.

Edited by Unit34

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