rebel veterns was spoiled

[Polenesio 20]

I don't like the new veterans. As they usually often do with rebels, they give to your unit an hability that almost have (an thus only improve a litle their efficiency) or that you are probably not using, but  paying the full price. Rebels are not the 'cheap-squishy' army anymore, they are the 'same price-but-still-squishy' army.

[aniron 218]

9 hours ago, syrath said:

Yeah that's a nice call that, equip your veterans with Recon Intel to get them roughly 8 inches out of deployment which should satisfy the range  03 requirement, and have Leia lay down the three attacks giving you a RRBBBB pool with shooter 2 

Can't put Recon Intel on the Mk2 Medium Blaster detachment, it only has a comms slot. No turn 1 CB with fire support unless the opponent infiltrates and moves within 3 while leaving the emplacement alive.

Edited July 3, 2019 by aniron

[syrath 1,316]

1 hour ago, aniron said:

Can't put Recon Intel on the Mk2 Medium Blaster detachment, it only has a comms slot. No turn 1 CB with fire support unless the opponent infiltrates and moves within 3 while leaving the emplacement alive.

You can however out it on the veterans that it's attached to so you get to place it one move out of your deployment zone, then place the detachment one move from veterans.  This gives you a movement 1 ruler, a veterans base, another movement 1 ruler and a medium base for how far you can place your emplacement trooper.

Edited July 3, 2019 by syrath

[buckero0 1,956]

I'd really like to see how the squad support works.  I've been really frustrated playing rebels these last several games.  You have to get out in the open at some point because no one places key objectives behind cover.  I can't roll a block to save my life on rebel troopers.  Usually if 2 squads can shoot at them, they are dead, it doesn't matter if they have light cover.  By the time I can activate them, they are shot, getting the dodge token sometimes helps but by then, they usually have 1-2 figures left.

I'm at the point where I've considered taking minimum core (3 x 40pt troopers) and then maxing heroes and vehicles but I don't know how that would work (I"ll try it when my Sabine arrives and gets painted)

[arnoldrew 1,713]

20 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

I'd really like to see how the squad support works.  I've been really frustrated playing rebels these last several games.  You have to get out in the open at some point because no one places key objectives behind cover.  I can't roll a block to save my life on rebel troopers.  Usually if 2 squads can shoot at them, they are dead, it doesn't matter if they have light cover.  By the time I can activate them, they are shot, getting the dodge token sometimes helps but by then, they usually have 1-2 figures left.

I'm at the point where I've considered taking minimum core (3 x 40pt troopers) and then maxing heroes and vehicles but I don't know how that would work (I"ll try it when my Sabine arrives and gets painted)

What is "the squad support?" We already have all of the rules for these guys, so whatever question you have has been answered. As to the rest of your comment, plenty of objectives can be near or behind cover, especially given that oftentimes you are the one placing them. They aren't that much worse off than Stormtroopers. White die with surge is a 37% chance to roll a block, red die is 50%. A 13% difference is there, but not huge. You're just letting it get to you and only remembering the times they roll blanks. People catastrophize Rebel defense so often it's ridiculous.

[buckero0 1,956]

16 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

What is "the squad support?" We already have all of the rules for these guys, so whatever question you have has been answered. As to the rest of your comment, plenty of objectives can be near or behind cover, especially given that oftentimes you are the one placing them. They aren't that much worse off than Stormtroopers. White die with surge is a 37% chance to roll a block, red die is 50%. A 13% difference is there, but not huge. You're just letting it get to you and only remembering the times they roll blanks. People catastrophize Rebel defense so often it's ridiculous.

"squad support" is my term for the interaction between the Veterans and the tripod turret that comes with them.

Ridicule away.  When all 5 of your trooper units die to 2-3 volleys max, and the damage they put out is the equivalent of 2-3 stormtroopers, it becomes a problem. I play with tons of LOS blocking terrain.  The way the rules are though, objectives have to be placed a certain distance from each other and deployment zones.  I rarely play rebel vs rebel (only once) Stormtrooper defense is substantially better as well as their offense in similar or like conditions.  If you venture out to grab and objective or sabotage an objective and the Imperial does as well.  If your guys get wiped and theirs take little to no casualties, it's a problem. The longer you wait to move, the less chance you have of keeping up with those types of victory points.  If their objectives and VPs are maxed and you can't come out of LOS without losing your unit, then you fall behind and can't make it up. Offensive buffs are way more efficient in this game as well as range buffs than defensive buffs.  Veers is better than Leia, Command cards are better for the Imperials often.  Yes Luke is good, but I feel like I should be able to play the game without having to have 1-2 viable army list options.

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

17 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

People catastrophize Rebel defense so often it's ridiculous.

The less games you have with them, the less time for the dice to average out?

I've only played rebels 3 times but I can count on both hands the number of blocks I've rolled. 37% chance doesn't actually mean 1/3 of the dice are gonna block. 

At this point I build my rebel lists with my core as 100% disposable. I take a lot of them with few if any upgrades . Fact is, if they get shot, they'll likely die. 


 

[buckero0 1,956]

8 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

The less games you have with them, the less time for the dice to average out?

I've only played rebels 3 times but I can count on both hands the number of blocks I've rolled. 37% chance doesn't actually mean 1/3 of the dice are gonna block. 

At this point I build my rebel lists with my core as 100% disposable. I take a lot of them with few if any upgrades . Fact is, if they get shot, they'll likely die. 

amen, most Legion communities are small I would suspect.  There are a lot of other games that vie for time as well.  If I played 3 games a week, maybe my dice would even out.  Right now, I get to play once to twice a month, and the Rebels fall woefully behind in everything and I know I'm playing better than my opponents, my figures are in better positions, I'm gaining on VPs, and then all of my figures are dead by turn 5 and my opponent pulls ahead because they've only lost 30% of their figures. This has happened numerous times.

[gothound 60]

27 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

At this point I build my rebel lists with my core as 100% disposable. 


 

As you should. The reason why Wonder Twins (Luke, Leia, max Z-6s) is so popular is that Luke does all of the work as a scapel. He has great defense and offence. This leaves the corps to secure the objectives. Keep them in heavy cover, and give them a doge if possible (that's where Leia comes along!)

3 blocks with heavy+dodge is nothing to shake a stick at. If you can't keep your corps alive through cover, keep them alive through shear numbers alone. The rebels sorta play like space-Soviets. Take their PPSH-errr, I mean their Z-6, even when the squad gets thin, the 6 potential hits are great

[arnoldrew 1,713]

1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

"squad support" is my term for the interaction between the Veterans and the tripod turret that comes with them.

You still haven't told us what questions you have about how they interact. We have all the rules so ask away. Also, Leia is the best commander in the game, and Veers is almost as good. Saying he's clearly better than her makes it feel like you're playing a different game.

[aniron 218]

8 hours ago, syrath said:

You can however out it on the veterans that it's attached to so you get to place it one move out of your deployment zone, then place the detachment one move from veterans.  This gives you a movement 1 ruler, a veterans base, another movement 1 ruler and a medium base for how far you can place your emplacement trooper.

*reads rules reference*

Oh. Ooooh!

[buckero0 1,956]

1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

You still haven't told us what questions you have about how they interact. We have all the rules so ask away. Also, Leia is the best commander in the game, and Veers is almost as good. Saying he's clearly better than her makes it feel like you're playing a different game.

I haven't read the rules or the RRef. Do you place them at the same time at deployment? Are they individual squads or combined somehow.  Can I just place the tripod gun and not use the other veterans?

Can my Rebel Troopers interact with the Tripod gun in any way?  I know the tripod gets to shoot along side a unit, but don't know what triggers that effect . I haven't seen the tripod card only the Vets card. 

Veers is cheaper and his aim seems to always push the stormtroopers' efficiency way up where they  always get damage through no matter what cover or token I have.  There is no similar boost for the Rebels and rolling bad defensive dice still equals bad defensive dice for me.  Maybe I've just got bad dice. I've never rolled blocks on my white dice unless I'm blocking 1-2/6 attack dice and at that point I've already taken several wounds. 

[syrath 1,316]

13 minutes ago, aniron said:

*reads rules reference*

Oh. Ooooh!

Yeah it's about 8 inches or more outside of your deployment zone.

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

On 7/3/2019 at 11:39 AM, gothound said:

3 blocks with heavy+dodge is nothing to shake a stick at. If you can't keep your corps alive through cover, keep them alive through shear numbers alone. The rebels sorta play like space-Soviets. Take their PPSH-errr, I mean their Z-6, even when the squad gets thin, the 6 potential hits are great

I mean, I don't necessarily disagree, I'd just like a little less chance for the rebels

I had a game friday... Han + Chewie, 5 corps, 2 atrts 2 snipers.... and he cleared all but 4 minis (2 units)... I rolled less than 10 blocks the whole game (including surges)... Full use of cover, dodges Han's keywords... the whole nine yards... 

Despite losing all but 3 units by the last round, it was a close game. 

I think white defense dice need help. I don't know how, but somehow. 

I also think there should be a new rank in cover.

Not sure how it would be worded, but essentially if the defending mini (or unit) is more than 90% obscured by cover (IE all they have in LoS is a gun or a cape, or you're shooting through a sliver a millimeter wide, ect...) all but 1 hit/crit are canceled...

The game deciding shot was through two pieces of terrain that were placed flush but left a tiny, barely visible sliver of space between them. He put a full Bossk shot through there at Han. Han had 2 HP left, and had the bounty plus an objective captured. With shapshooter he reduced Han's cover to light, ended up rolled 4 hits, one canceled by light cover, Han took 3 damage...

While it was 100% a legal shot, it was obnoxious.

Had it been scaled up the "kill" shot would have been through a 1" seam in the wall of a building, at a 45° angle, while the defender was suppressed and running for cover at about 75 yards... in the middle of a war zone...

 

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

15 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

While it was 100% a legal shot, it was obnoxious.

Had it been scaled up the "kill" shot would have been through a 1" seam in the wall of a building, at a 45° angle, while the defender was suppressed and running for cover at about 75 yards... in the middle of a war zone...

 

I would not have accepted that as being legal. Placing two pieces of terrain flush to each other is good enough, the intent and purpose of doing so is obvious. If they had a problem they should've said "this board seems slanted, can I move these apart?" during setup. That should block LOS between them regardless of my ability to squint and see daylight through them. You shouldn't have to seal them with Silly Putty during setup. I'd have made them dice off for it, and made a note to confer with that opponent VERY carefully about terrain if I had to play them again.

Edited July 8, 2019 by TauntaunScout

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

Just now, TauntaunScout said:

I'd have made them dice off for it, and made a note to confer with that opponent VERY carefully about terrain if I had to play them again.

I let him have it, my dice were awful all game, he played well and I didn't want to ruin what was an otherwise fun game for him. I did inform him that next time I will be sure to make note of my intentions while placing terrain, since I had intended those pieces to act as a continuous wall that blocked all LoS.

[ScummyRebel 5,346]

25 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

The game deciding shot was through two pieces of terrain that were placed flush but left a tiny, barely visible sliver of space between them. He put a full Bossk shot through there at Han. Han had 2 HP left, and had the bounty plus an objective captured. With shapshooter he reduced Han's cover to light, ended up rolled 4 hits, one canceled by light cover, Han took 3 damage...

While it was 100% a legal shot, it was obnoxious.

Had it been scaled up the "kill" shot would have been through a 1" seam in the wall of a building, at a 45° angle, while the defender was suppressed and running for cover at about 75 yards... in the middle of a war zone...

 

Sounds like you were playing with Richard RulesLawyer. He’s no fun to play with.

This does reinforce the merits of discussion about terrain pregame. We use a ton of custom terrain and always try to establish what our intention was with it before hand.... and we are all just sitting around for a beer and pretzels afternoon among friends. I can’t imagine dealing with Richard in such a highly customized environment.

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

12 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Sounds like you were playing with Richard RulesLawyer. He’s no fun to play with.

This does reinforce the merits of discussion about terrain pregame. We use a ton of custom terrain and always try to establish what our intention was with it before hand.... and we are all just sitting around for a beer and pretzels afternoon among friends. I can’t imagine dealing with Richard in such a highly customized environment.

I wouldn't say that, he's pretty chill. 

I don't know, it's possible my perception of the events is wrong, but the shot looked impossible but for the slightest chance from where I was standing. 

The area in question is circled in green. I took this before making the final adjustment to that terrain that put the pieces flush. There was maybe 2mm of space between the pieces once they were adjusted. But even if they had been as open as this picture, the shot was taken at an angle, as seen below...


With the way that the walls sat once I moved them flush and the angle, it couldn't have been more than the tiniest sliver. I could be wrong, but *shrug* it's what I saw.

IDK, I still think there needs to be a precedence for sliver shots like that beyond heavy cover. 

I've seen a lot of shots at tips of weapons or hands or other stuff that should get more than heavy cover but still allow that unit to be shot at.

[manoftomorrow010 1,119]

17 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I wouldn't say that, he's pretty chill. 

I don't know, it's possible my perception of the events is wrong, but the shot looked impossible but for the slightest chance from where I was standing. 

The area in question is circled in green. I took this before making the final adjustment to that terrain that put the pieces flush. There was maybe 2mm of space between the pieces once they were adjusted. But even if they had been as open as this picture, the shot was taken at an angle, as seen below...


With the way that the walls sat once I moved them flush and the angle, it couldn't have been more than the tiniest sliver. I could be wrong, but *shrug* it's what I saw.

IDK, I still think there needs to be a precedence for sliver shots like that beyond heavy cover. 

I've seen a lot of shots at tips of weapons or hands or other stuff that should get more than heavy cover but still allow that unit to be shot at.

My sympathy with your plight aside, that's a great looking table. I love seeing lots of terrain in play haha

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

13 minutes ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

My sympathy with your plight aside, that's a great looking table. I love seeing lots of terrain in play haha

Yeah! I love this terrain. I got it from etsy. All the buildings come in stackable stages, so placing minis in them is easy. 

[GreatMazinkaiser 1,335]

Yup, TLOS in a game like this is straight up cancer, especially since many aspects of the rules are quite abstracted (the attack dice pools).

[Derrault 1,091]

5 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I mean, I don't necessarily disagree, I'd just like a little less chance for the rebels

I had a game friday... Han + Chewie, 5 corps, 2 atrts 2 snipers.... and he cleared all but 4 minis (2 units)... I rolled less than 10 blocks the whole game (including surges)... Full use of cover, dodges Han's keywords... the whole nine yards... 

Despite losing all but 3 units by the last round, it was a close game. 

I think white defense dice need help. I don't know how, but somehow. 

I also think there should be a new rank in cover.

Not sure how it would be worded, but essentially if the defending mini (or unit) is more than 90% obscured by cover (IE all they have in LoS is a gun or a cape, or you're shooting through a sliver a millimeter wide, ect...) all but 1 hit/crit are canceled...

The game deciding shot was through two pieces of terrain that were placed flush but left a tiny, barely visible sliver of space between them. He put a full Bossk shot through there at Han. Han had 2 HP left, and had the bounty plus an objective captured. With shapshooter he reduced Han's cover to light, ended up rolled 4 hits, one canceled by light cover, Han took 3 damage...

While it was 100% a legal shot, it was obnoxious.

Had it been scaled up the "kill" shot would have been through a 1" seam in the wall of a building, at a 45° angle, while the defender was suppressed and running for cover at about 75 yards... in the middle of a war zone...

 

True enough, although you also rolled zero blocks despite Han having rerolls. (0 block/surge results on 7 dice (4 + 3 rerolls for blanks) is going to happen 5/100 times.

Extremely bad luck does make for a good story though.

 

[manoftomorrow010 1,119]

3 hours ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

Yup, TLOS in a game like this is straight up cancer, especially since many aspects of the rules are quite abstracted (the attack dice pools).

Not being argumentative, I just haven't played any other minis games with 3D terrain, how else would you determine whether a unit can see another unit to shoot or not?

[nuke556 38]

9 hours ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

Not being argumentative, I just haven't played any other minis games with 3D terrain, how else would you determine whether a unit can see another unit to shoot or not?

 

You would need to see at least 25/50% of a model to have a shot. Generally, torso legs ect. So one through a sliver gap would be blocked. It allows things like sabers, banners and other additions to be cool and not a hindrance. 

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

12 hours ago, Derrault said:

True enough, although you also rolled zero blocks despite Han having rerolls. (0 block/surge results on 7 dice (4 + 3 rerolls for blanks) is going to happen 5/100 times.

Extremely bad luck does make for a good story though.

 

I only rolled a handful the whole game. Basically everything I had surged to block too. After round 2 I had given up entirely on the idea of defending, but by then several units were dead and the objectives hung in the balance. 

I may have the story, but in all honesty the dice made me wanna hang up rebels entirely. 

I don't know what I'm gonna do once droids drop. I definitely want to play that faction, but they look even worse....