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BVRCH

General Organa - worth the points?

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Posted (edited)

So I tried Resistance Leia last night and man she's powerful. Is she worth 19pts? Further testing is needed but after the 2 games I had last night, I can't say the answer is a definite no.

I flew her on Rey with no other upgrades, next to an 81pt Poe and Vi Moradi in the new Pod. Leia really helps make the scavenged Falcon move. Being able to change almost any move to a blue allows Rey to boost frequently without the need for the title or engine upgrade. More importantly the turning the S-loop white allows Rey to keep her front arc hot with relative ease, also affording Rey an action to either mod or boost into range 1. 

Separate from Leia's utility on Rey, being able to create blue moves for Poe from across the board was seriously impressive. The specific language used allows BB astros to trigger off her changed moves. At one stage I had Poe facing out at a slight angle near the rock placed at range 2 of the board edge. My opponent raced up behind him with Boba thinking he had him dead to rights. I revealed a left hard turn, converted it to blue with Leia, triggered BB to barrel roll back to the left, PoeTL'd a boost left and executed the blue turn for no stress, escaping Boba's arc completely. I would of flown off the board with a 2 bank so Leia really saved Poe's shorts in that scenario. It's also a scenario only she could alter. This was when my opponent turned to me and said; "I see why she's 19pts now".

She definitely is as powerful as many have speculated, but she's not without downsides. The 2 biggest issues I had with her were; one, her cost (its a lot even if she's powerful), and the other being force economy.

To expand on her cost, I think she is really only too expensive contextually. On a 92pt Rey with a chassis that can take a few hits, next to an ace that really benefits from Leia's versatility and boundless reach, I think she might actually be worth the points. On a transport that will pop quicker where she equates to half the ships base cost? Maybe not. I have a feeling its going to be a much riskier moves putting her on a transport. Especially when there are a bunch of other useful crew half her cost or less. I've yet to test this theory though. Another aspect I've been thinking about today is; if you don't need the option to affect other ships like Poe and are just using it to bolster Rey, can you effectively get the same level of manoeuvrability with Korr Sella and the title for 8pts less? 84pts is certainly a more palatable cost. This is going to be my next test.

Force economy is another big issue with this particular combo. Whilst Leia increases Rey's force pool; between Leia's ability, coordinate, Rey's ability, and focus results, are there are multiple options you want to spend force on each and every round with no means to regenerate mid round. Now this is very balanced and fair, don't get me wrong. This combo would be bonkers if it were any other way. I'm simply stressing this point as on paper it may look like you have so many fantastic options to utilise regularly, but in reality you have to choose very carefully what you really need and can do without. In both games, I did not get back to full force after the first engagement. 

That's my thoughts on my first game with General Organa. I'd love to hear of anybody else that has tried her out, or any of the other new crew for that matter.

Edited by BVRCH

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Haven’t played or seen her yet (game store lost power at our casual night), but she might be mildly underpriced on the Falcon if people find some optimized wingmen. Your experience lines up pretty closely with my headsim, at least in the level of detail described. 

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Posted (edited)

Is she worth the points?

NO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....idea

(Honestly, 19 points seems less limiting than double crew. Either you put her on Rey and get no other crew options, or you fork over for a 51+ point transport though really 53 on the off chance you can bring that forcus to bear)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Posted (edited)

As a 2-ship list, this seems really crazy:

Rey (73)
- Leia Organa (19)
- Rey's Millenium Falcon (5)

Poe Dameron (68)
- Daredevil (3)
- BB-8 (8)
- Spare Parts Canister (4)
- Integrated S-Foils (0)
- Advanced Optics (4)
- Black One (2)

Total: 186

Poe can do a lot with all-blue moves and three uses of BB8 (including the ability to do a hard turn before executing his maneuver). Plus, we still have 14 more points of seasoning. Autoblasters on Poe? Heightened Perception, Hotshot Gunner or Finn on Rey? Lots to play with here.

Edited by PhantomFO

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I firmly believe all of the resistance transport crew except maybe Holdo are overpriced. If Leia was only 1 crew slot I could see the 19. The GA-97 droid crew is a joke at 8 points as well.

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29 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

I firmly believe all of the resistance transport crew except maybe Holdo are overpriced. If Leia was only 1 crew slot I could see the 19. The GA-97 droid crew is a joke at 8 points as well.

I promise you that you don’t want a single crew slot. Sitting Leia in a bomber that never has to move again isn’t good for anyone. 

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17 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I promise you that you don’t want a single crew slot. Sitting Leia in a bomber that never has to move again isn’t good for anyone. 

I believe the point being made was that Leia could be cheaper considering her double crew slot requirement.

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3 minutes ago, Octarine-08 said:

I believe the point being made was that Leia could be cheaper considering her double crew slot requirement.

She's a Palpatine for maneuvers, that also adds options for purple Coordinate and Force usage to her carrier ship. Those are all very strong effects, especially for a pilot like Rey who already has her own Force charges.

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I got 1 game in over the weekend with Leia on Rey (Nien & Lulo as wingmates).  Similar experience to yours, seriously impressed with the Rey+Leia combo.  As you call out Force management is key. 

Got in 3 games with Nodin/Nien/Tallie/Lulo at the FGLS.  2-1, Transport only died in the game I lost and was surprisingly able to hold its own when the shooting started.

My initial reaction is that she's worth the 19 points in the right list.  

Really excited for all the new possibilities Resistance has after this update!

 

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41 minutes ago, Burius1981 said:

Is there a case to be made for taking Leia on Han, Chewy, or the Sympathizer to save points but keep the durable platform?

The best case for doing it is Rey-gunner (either on the Falcon, or on another ship).  Rey gunner is pretty sweet.  But mostly not really.

With the way prices have been collapsed on the YT-1300, with Rey 5 points more than Chewie rather than 8, 6 points more than Resistance Sympathizer rather than 12, I think it's pretty hard to go with non-Rey.  It's pretty funny.  Resistance used to have the biggest example of "not paying for initiative" in L'ulo L'ampar, 6 points going from Init 1 to 5.  That's almost tame, compared to how Rey goes from 2 to 5 with TWO FORCE CHARGES for 6 points.  Han gets Init 6 for only 4 points over a generic.  It's all so absurd.  I think Rey and Han might be about right, Chewie not far off, but Resistance Sympathizer is pathetic.  They're hard sticking to the 67 point break-point, and the Sympathizer winds up feeling like one of the most overcosted ships in the game.

I really wish FFG had dropped the Resistance Sympathizer to 66 points, as a test.  They did the 3x Torpedo E-Wings test.  No big deal.  Is it possible for three Boosting Large Base Turrets with 3-red dice to exist?  If it isn't a problem, then good.  You can price the Resistance Sympathizer properly.  If it did wind up being an issue?  Then the community wouldn't mind if it got nerfed back to 67.

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@theBitterFig Great points.  Though I'm still scared of three of those with all that hp to chew through.

I was thinking of trying to squeeze in Poe, maybe Lulo and a cheap Falcon with Leia.  I've been working and hadn't looked at the points.  Turns out that you can do it but you only have 3 points left.  That leaves a couple of upgrades on the table, but that set up may be to dicey.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Octarine-08 said:

I believe the point being made was that Leia could be cheaper considering her double crew slot requirement.

If she was a single slot, she’d be unplayably expensive. The double slot is price of admission to get her on the board and comes with some unknown points cut versus the single slot hypothetical.

You can imagine she’d be cheaper if she only had a force and coordinate. Her ability is bonkers good, though, especially with the lack of range requirement on it. I still maintain that she might honestly be underpriced, but we need table time to find out one way or another. 

Edited by PaulRuddSays

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19 minutes ago, Burius1981 said:

I was thinking of trying to squeeze in Poe, maybe Lulo and a cheap Falcon with Leia. 

Why not two Falcons with Leia? You can run Han and Rey with Leia, Finn, and Rose and still have points for more upgrades.

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20 minutes ago, Pa Weasley said:

 

Why not two Falcons with Leia? You can run Han and Rey with Leia, Finn, and Rose and still have points for more upgrades.

Outside of 1.0 Brobots I've never been a fan of 2 ship builds.  In 2.0 I really don't like them.  You get two shots a round and there is still a decent chance that either you whiff your red dice or the other guy rolls a lot of evades.  If I'm shooting 4 or 5 times, that happening once is pretty much expected.  When I'm only shooting twice a round that hurts, especially early in the match.

So three ships is pretty much as low as I'm willing to go, but that's just my personal preference.  That idea might work pretty well.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Burius1981 said:

@theBitterFig Great points.  Though I'm still scared of three of those with all that hp to chew through.

It's about similar toughness to 4x B-Wings.  Granted, B-Wings aren't boosting large base ships with side-arc guns.  It's entirely possible that it would be a problem.  The time-on-target and the high speed from boosting might be an issue.

I think it'd be good for FFG to test it in the wider community, but I'll be among the first to say that if it's a problem, it shouldn't be 3-per-list.  I just guess it probably wouldn't be as much of a problem as FFG thinks it might.

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Leebo and Wild Space Fringer want a word with you.

YT-2400 and YT-1300 have really similar toughness, all told.  One has a red boost, the other a red barrel roll.  2400 has a slightly better dial (I'd take white hard 1s over the S-Loops, but it's not too far different).  Fringer is 17 points more than the Outer Rim Smuggler, but gains an extra attack die.  Is 17 points too much for an extra red die?  I have a hard time saying so. Ghost and Lancer have similar toughness if the Ghost isn't reinforced and are separated by 10 points with a 3 -> 4 attack dice difference.  Turret ships are priced on a higher scale than others, so a 17 point jump

Meanwhile, Leebo and Fringer seem like they're relatively well priced in relation to Dash.  Dash is 12 more than Fringer, and 10 more than Leebo, who gets a permanent calculate.  Resistance Sympathizer is really poorly priced in comparison to Rey.  For another example, look at Maul.  Maul is 16 points more than a Dark Courier.  That's probably about the right price difference for a Sith Infiltrator.  Maul's pilot ability is probably a little better than Rey's, but Rey still warrants at least 10 points more than a Sympathizer.

Heck, Chewbacca clearly warrants more than a 1 point bump from a Sympathizer.  The YT-2400 is not a currently successful ship.  But the Scavenged YT-1300 strikes me as it's priced very poorly in order to prevent it from crossing the 66 point threshold.

Edited by theBitterFig

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

but gains an extra attack die

Except it really doesn’t overall because Sensor Blindspot is a HUGE loss. If it had 5 at R1 I’d totally agree with you, but it’s nowhere close. The Falcon shoots with 4 at R1 and 3 at R2. Fringer shoots 3 at R1 and 4 at R2. The difference becomes more pronounced at R3 but it’s super easy to get R1 against it, and then it’s a majorly losing situation for the 2400 since the most common ships will be throwing 4 against its 3, usually more than one of them, usually with more mods and total health. Similar green dice to fighters but much worse action economy really leave it lacking. Figuring that you’ll only fit 1-2 other ships with it, the R1 is really easy to get without much downside, and the whole thing just falls apart.

1:1 could a fringer ever beat 2 Cavern Angels Zealots?

The 2400 also loses out on the indispensable second crew slot, the useful evade action (and rerolls), 3 health, and the option for white reposition and Lone Wolf (since EH is a talent). Han get GREAT passive mods and Lando has Amazing action economy. Dash can run over rocks. Yay.

 I’ve still never heard of ANYONE ever  winning a single 2.0 game with a YT-2400, even a casual game (except obviously double-tap Dash). If you want to take it to the table and prove me wrong I’d love you to, but all my experience, all I’ve heard from others who HAVE tried it, and all the data on ListFortress says it’s nowhere near the ballpark it should be in. Everyone who says “it’s probably fine” typically has never tried it or otherwise has no idea what they’re talking about.

Look me straight in the eye and tell me there’s ANY list that would prefer an 86pt Fringer to an 82 point Solo.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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