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Biophysical

Discussing Passive Sensor enabled Torpedoes

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4 hours ago, T70 Driver said:

 

That's interesting. The artwork for Passive Sensors is a TIE/SF. It's as if the card was meant to be used on that specific platform. Who am I to say otherwise.

Of course, there wasn't a copy of Passive Sensors in the TIE/sf expansion, despite their being Juke with NO EVADE TOKEN in the kit.  Seriously?

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On 7/4/2019 at 4:51 PM, Wazat said:

Coordinate is not a bad idea for Redline.  Among my tricks were:

  • Coordinate a boost-lock before a k-turn.
  • Coordinate a focus before Passive Sensors, for a fully-moded torp shot on a high-init target.
  • Coordinate PS before a bump.

So the idea of having Sai in the list is great, the problem is Sai and AD.  ;)  Trade those for Vermeil + Tac Officer and I think we'll do way better!

Can't coordinate passive sensors.  The action can only be performed during your (the ship with PS) perform action step.

I like the idea of the card but the limitations are going to make it a niche use.  Torpedoes without a focus are super dicey.  Tried these with Bravo Pilots and generic X1's and not super impressed with either.

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Ah right, that third bullet point I forgot wasn't possible with PS's limit.  Oops!  The problem with not having the card in front of me (curse ye, proxy!),

I keep wanting to try a swarm of Alpha Star Wings with proton torps and PS.  Either four alphas, or 3 with a Reaper buddy.  Alpha-strikes are pretty one-note but effective when they land, and I feel like PS is exactly what such lists were lacking before.  It may even chase some bulk lists out of the top meta and let things balance out a bit... or throw the meta even further off kilter, which wouldn't delight me.  We'll have to see.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/27/2019 at 3:27 PM, wurms said:

Lots of downers here on passive sensors. They are fantastic on bwings with a little bit of support (which rebels have in spades).

Garven Dreis (47)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Jake Farrell (36)
Crack Shot (1)
Predator (2)

Blue Squadron Pilot (41)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Blue Squadron Pilot (41)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Total: 200

So, got two games in tonight with this list. Its pretty **** good. First game was V19 missile swarm with battle med ahsoka. All my ships were banged up, but didnt lose any. Torps were fizzing on me, even fully modded, i only got hit crit on all three torps i fired. But crits did good things to v19s. Garven jake really helped bwings with kturns and mods, or self bump and mods.

 

Second game was vader,vermeil,dutches. Went hardcore after vader. Three torps and a range 1 later and he is down. Lost 1 bwing and rest of squad was beat up bad but did 200 the list. Jake and Garven did good things.

Would also like to note that my first 4 torps (3 in game 1, and first one fired in game 2) only got hit crit, and my other ones only got hit hit crit. I didnt get 4 hits with any of my 6 torpedos. Was quite a bummer.

Passive sensor bwings are scary for aces when you have focus poppers like jake and garven in there. At any point they can have full mod shot. Jake got a block on vader, so bwing just passive sensor lock vader. Boom.

In the v19 game, i just passive sensor, get a focus from jake or garven, then wait for the v19s to shoot and see which ones spent their focus, then lock that one and destroy it, lol.

Edited by wurms

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On 6/27/2019 at 11:56 AM, Transmogrifier said:

My issue is that you are paying a 3 point premium for Passive Sensors to make already expensive ordnance work on a sub-optimal platform. That 3 points only helps you when you fire ordnance (likely only once per game, possibly twice). That same 3 points could have instead been put towards upgrading to a more expensive pilot where you would be gaining a higher initiative value (which will be relevant every time you Activate & Engage) as well as potentially a valuable pilot ability.  So it becomes a question of whether the generics are cheap enough to be run in high enough numbers to make up for the lost value over simply just running higher initiative pilots with ordnance.

I just went through and looked up all the absolutely cheapest of the ships that can take Passive Sensors and the most expensive.   Just to see what type of price difference we are looking at.  I'll list how much cheaper the lowest generic is in points.

  • B-wings: 10 pts cheaper
  • E-wings: 14 pts cheaper
  • VCX-100:  16 pts cheaper
  • Assault Gunboat: 9 pts cheaper
  • Tie Punisher: 14 pts cheaper
  • Starviper: 18 pts cheaper
  • Naboo N-1: 11 pts cheaper

The points difference is rather striking.  The difference for some ships is enough to go with the lowest Init pilot, get Passive Sensors, and pay for the expensive Proton Torpedo!  My go to out of this list is the Tie Punisher and you would have to shell out 1 pt more to have the cheapest with those toys as you would just to pay for an empty Redline.  The ship with the least difference is the one that @Biophysical thinks will benefit the most (and I am inclined to agree).   

You mentioned running the generics in high enough numbers instead of running higher initiative pilots.  I don't believe that it has to be that way.  Instead of running as many of these things as you can to min-max on them, I think you could easily go with just throwing in one of these ships into a more toolbox type list.   

===

Someone else said that you have to live long enough to fire your shots.  I think it's definitely an issue with some of these, but other ships are absolute tanks.   The Assault Gunboat, Tie Punisher, and the VCX-100 all have enough hull to really ensure they fire both Torpedoes.  I can even see the first two being able to re-load and get more shots in.  You don't have to put much more on them, to be honest.

@Biophysical I think you are right with the Assault Gunboats being the best.   The Slam really can get those ships out of there and allow them to get the reloads they need.   I haven't flown my Gunboat more than twice and I was underwhelmed when I did use it.  I might have to try this.  I do think the Tie Punisher might be able to take some Devices that could potentially cause people to veer off of it.  Not quite as good, but.....it's better than nothing!  

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Posted (edited)
On 6/30/2019 at 7:14 PM, President Jyrgunkarrd said:


Did you check the odds for when your target was wearing Autothrusters, and therefore neutralized your torpedoes unless you were strictly R2? Because I don't think you did.

This is one of the many reasons why I always take at least 1 cheap filler ship (such as Academy Pilot).  You can put it in front of your Torpedo carrier to block anyone from getting in R1.   I usually prefer the mini-swarm types of list.   I would probably create a crowded field of cheap Tie Fighters in front to create a block zone that almost automatically forces them to bump, and then can light them up with a Proton Torpedo as they have no defensive tokens.  

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (38)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Seismic Charges (3)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

“Night Beast” (26)

5 x Academy Pilot (23)

Total: 199

Edited by heychadwick

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4 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I just went through and looked up all the absolutely cheapest of the ships that can take Passive Sensors and the most expensive.   Just to see what type of price difference we are looking at.  I'll list how much cheaper the lowest generic is in points.

  • B-wings: 10 pts cheaper
  • E-wings: 14 pts cheaper
  • VCX-100:  16 pts cheaper
  • Assault Gunboat: 9 pts cheaper
  • Tie Punisher: 14 pts cheaper
  • Starviper: 18 pts cheaper
  • Naboo N-1: 11 pts cheaper

The points difference is rather striking.  The difference for some ships is enough to go with the lowest Init pilot, get Passive Sensors, and pay for the expensive Proton Torpedo!  My go to out of this list is the Tie Punisher and you would have to shell out 1 pt more to have the cheapest with those toys as you would just to pay for an empty Redline.  The ship with the least difference is the one that Biophysical thinks will benefit the most (and I am inclined to agree).  

But is a single-modded 4 dice attack that you (probably) will be alive and in the right position to get off maybe twice better than those same points spent on a more broadly capable ship? Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes is a 16 point investment that you're putting onto a low Initiative generic that 1) probably wasn't competitively costed to begin with 2) is locked into a very specific play style that your opponent has room to counter-play. The cheapest option here is a Nu Squadron Gunboat with OS-1, Passive Sensors, Proton Torpedoes for 48 points. 48 points is the same price range as most factions I4/I5 "pocket ace" style ships - Pure Sabacc (44), Ten Numb (48), Talonbane Cobra (50), Ric Ole w/Juke (49) are all right around this price point and are hitting just about as hard while also gaining the benefits of being high Initiative. I don't see much point in choosing the less flexible option unless there is a clear price incentive, which there currently isn't.

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9 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

But is a single-modded 4 dice attack that you (probably) will be alive and in the right position to get off maybe twice better than those same points spent on a more broadly capable ship? Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes is a 16 point investment that you're putting onto a low Initiative generic that 1) probably wasn't competitively costed to begin with 2) is locked into a very specific play style that your opponent has room to counter-play. The cheapest option here is a Nu Squadron Gunboat with OS-1, Passive Sensors, Proton Torpedoes for 48 points. 48 points is the same price range as most factions I4/I5 "pocket ace" style ships - Pure Sabacc (44), Ten Numb (48), Talonbane Cobra (50), Ric Ole w/Juke (49) are all right around this price point and are hitting just about as hard while also gaining the benefits of being high Initiative. I don't see much point in choosing the less flexible option unless there is a clear price incentive, which there currently isn't.

I guess I don't see a problem with a ship that isn't easy to kill getting into an area with a wide R2-3 shot.  I mean, it's not like you have to do anything specific.  It's just get into a nice position a bit in the back and let someone get in front of you.  I can see some lists it being harder, such as a list of nothing but elite aces, but I, personally, don't see that type of a list too often.

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8 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I guess I don't see a problem with a ship that isn't easy to kill getting into an area with a wide R2-3 shot.  I mean, it's not like you have to do anything specific.  It's just get into a nice position a bit in the back and let someone get in front of you.  I can see some lists it being harder, such as a list of nothing but elite aces, but I, personally, don't see that type of a list too often.

Also just... don’t spam them. Any list that can only do one thing faces too many hard counters. Bring 2 PS Protorp ships and an ace. Use the torps to melt their best ace, then ace the rest. Seems like it should work out fine.

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Posted (edited)

Don't even know if I'd want ANY passive sensor torp ship, to be honest, given the price of even Plasmas

While I've only had a few games with them, a set of Diamond Borons has been doing me quite well on a backtoid (albeit with fcs; I find passives redundant  with the CiS probe droid and the ship REALLY needs the mods at close range). It can do comparable damage at less than half the price of Torps! (Issue being one less red to hit through agility)

Given the os-1 has two missile slots... yeah

An os-1, passive, diamond boron nu is 41 points (44 for advanced SLAM, since they're still funboats and can still lock normally +reload) which is the range of "beefy generic i2 jouster"

The protorp is 48 (51 with SLAM)

 

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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I've seen some people getting some actual success on the Tie Advanced X1s with passive sensors.  Running something like tempest squads, or other lower PS ships.  As it really allows the low ps ship to get the correct TL at the right time, giving it optimal shots from the Advanced Targeting Computer

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