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Schu81

Anti Rebel Agenda

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@Schu81 I get what you're putting down, I've been a Rebel player since 2.0 began (probably 80% of my games have been with Reb ships) but you have to understand that this kind of thing was bound to happen.

Scum got hit hard this last January, now it's our turn. There are ways to play your favorite ships, we just have to be creative. If you need list building ideas, let me/us know what you like to fly and maybe we can brainstorm something good. Probably head over to the List Building part of the forum though. 

Link

Also keep in mind, a lot of generic upgrades got adjusted up too, so that affects all factions.

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Ah, yes. Welcome back. I see you still have you're protest signs from before the first points change and have even taken the time to polish them... Rebels had 1 specific list of 1 specific archetype hit with any severity and 1 side archetype reigned in a little. Every single pilot and upgrade adjusted in Rebels this time around is still playable, you'll just have to adjust your lists a bit...

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1 minute ago, Force Majeure said:

@Schu81 I get what you're putting down, I've been a Rebel player since 2.0 began (probably 80% of my games have been with Reb ships) but you have to understand that this kind of thing was bound to happen.

Scum got hit hard this last January, now it's our turn. There are ways to play your favorite ships, we just have to be creative. If you need list building ideas, let me/us know what you like to fly and maybe we can brainstorm something good. Probably head over to the List Building part of the forum though.  

Link

Also keep in mind, a lot of generic upgrades got adjusted up too, so that affects all factions. 

Thanks.

I am already trying to create some new lists right now.

It's just pretty difficult now, because it feels like any good ship or pilot is more expensive or worse now.

Can't switch to another faction. I am "the rebel guy" in my local community :D

Apart from that, I have got tons of rebel ships but hardly any other factions ships.

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What annoys me isn't that a ton of Rebel stuff got some significant price increases, it's that unlike all the other factions almost nothing in the Rebel line-up became more appealing or was buffed at all...it was all just point increases and slot removals.  RZA1s are still trash compared to RZA2s point-for-point, Dash+Outrider is still the most laughably overcosted option in the game.  Aside from Leia, the Rebel crew are probably the worst in the game.  The Rebel Gunners are generally terrible and all head-scratchingly expensive, still, three point adjustments later.

If you want to make the hyperefficient Rebel options more expensive, fine, that's understandable.  But Rebels have a lot of bloated junk that is clearly underefficient, when will it get a bit of a boost?

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Unfortunately A-Wings are pretty weak and / or overpriced for what they do.

2 attack dice don't work, unless they're coming in large swarms.

There could be one good A-Wing, if Jake was a least a 5, maybe better a 6. Why? Because his ship will explode within seconds, as soon as he gets into heavy fire. An Arc dodger needs to dodge arcs. That won't work if any other pilot moves after him.

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Posted (edited)

It's not just the Rebels. Empire and Scum missed out on a lot of the buffs too. It's especially confusing for the scum players who weren't doing very well anyway.

34 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

Somehow all the good ships, all the fun pilots.. everything got more expensive or lost features.

I have always loved flying Wedge. And Dutch. And some others.

Don't complain because Wedge and Dutch went up. That was very much needed and a long time in coming. Their nerfs were just and definitely not overdone.

On the other hand, do complain because the counter-buffs weren't nearly strong enough at all. They completely overlooked the VCX and YT2400 as if they were ever actually seeing play. Their excuse for Dash is disgustingly pathetic (when are Rebels actually going to get something new? The answer is just before the next points adjustment! 😠 )

Magva is great and well-costed. Jyn, Baze, and Lando are amazing but have been overshadowed by Leia until now. There's definitely plenty of good stuff out there. Luke and Han are in the running for best pilots in the Rebel Alliance and there are some pretty cool 2-ship builds with Han and SR Luke.

I'd like to see Rebels get more Ace-y and less Beef-y anyway. Try dropping the support and putting AS on your named Bs to help them make their cost back. Try out the Auzituck's 180 arc. Miranda with HSG, Sabine, and bomblet is a really solid filler piece. Try out some of the action economy on the partisan Xs and Us; it's actually pretty good!

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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13 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

There could be one good A-Wing, if Jake was a least a 5, maybe better a 6. Why? Because his ship will explode within seconds, as soon as he gets into heavy fire. An Arc dodger needs to dodge arcs. That won't work if any other pilot moves after him.

Followed by the inevitable complaints of an all I5/I6 meta.

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7 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Some people simply don’t know how to play if they aren’t moving last.

#personalI3/4meta

I will add, that while many lament combo-wing, the game is meant to be played with upgrades.

If a ship isn't flying well, the right upgrade can make it worth more than it's points say it is.

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The loss aversion on A-Wings is surprisingly high. I had an outmaneuver Jake do pretty fair damage to my 2x I5 silencers and QuickDraw because he was never the primary threat. He doesn’t need to arc dodge if he can get damage in while you focus on correct target priorities. 

I personally would love if I could get an enemy list to chase a 40-odd point A-Wing for several turns while I lit into them with heavier ships. 

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3 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

The loss aversion on A-Wings is surprisingly high. I had an outmaneuver Jake do pretty fair damage to my 2x I5 silencers and QuickDraw because he was never the primary threat. He doesn’t need to arc dodge if he can get damage in while you focus on correct target priorities. 

I personally would love if I could get an enemy list to chase a 40-odd point A-Wing for several turns while I lit into them with heavier ships. 

Exactly. It’s kinda like how I use Pure Sabaac in my now (sadly) nots points legal list.

Sabaac

Vermiel

Echo w/Juke 

Sigma w/Juke

Its my highest increase at 6 points. RIP. Anyhow, Sabaac is a big scary gun that draws attention and aggro. I often use him to entice my opponent into bad decisions. Go after Sabaac and let the two Phantoms flank from opposite sides, ignore Sabaac and get hammered by a big gun. He usually gets killed at some point, but that’s ok. His role is to distract. Force you to turn away from my desired end game pieces.

Jake can be similar. He’s not the ship you plan to win with, he is your cheap ship that your opponent simply can not afford to ignore. Use him to harass, force your opponent to deal with him, or suffer the consequences. If I trade my Sabaac for your Wedge? I have won.

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Dutch needed a point raise.  It was either a point increase or restrict his ability.  Either by range or in firing arc.  It was a way undercosted ability when compared to other rebel y-wings.

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having to be just a teeny, tiny bit more creative in the list building process won't be a huge loss, and will probably open up appreciation for things that were completely overshadowed by beef

plus, passive sensors

Ghosts and B-wings with some focus support are gonna be monstrous with just their primaries 

you got Saw (Crew), jake, and garven to help you out without losing ANY action efficiency

happy hunting!

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13 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

I have a list with wedge and dutch that's still competitive, it's not that hard

This is exactly why the pount increase.  Dutch gives a free TL to wedge.  So then wedge, has a double mod roll with a nerf to the defender.

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1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Good stuff got nerfed.  Bad stuff got buffed.  If Rebels didn't get as many buffs and got more nerfs, it's because they had more good stuff to begin with.  Almost surely still good.

Mostly true, not completely.

All three OT factions missed out on some buffs they definitely should have gotten, especially the VCX, YT-2400, generic interceptors and strikers, and single-slot missiles.

Plus many rebel and scum named crew/gunners are still overpriced, illicits are all trash except CC, and talents like Daredevil and Saturation really should have gone down.

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4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Good stuff got nerfed.  Bad stuff got buffed.  If Rebels didn't get as many buffs and got more nerfs, it's because they had more good stuff to begin with.  Almost surely still good.

I’d even go so far as to say that, competitively, Rebels are still the best faction. They just have to actually make choices and sacrifices in list building now. 😱 the horror!

Also Phantoms got whacked hard. Echo really is the biggest victim there. Poor Echo, always the most fun, always the victim of others.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

I’d even go so far as to say that, competitively, Rebels are still the best faction.

Pretty sure Republic just passed them up. Every single pilot is now either correctly priced or underpriced. If missiles weren't as overcosted as they are it would be very obvious. As-is I expect the meta tier to go:

• Republic

• Rebel

• Resistance

• Empire

• First Order

• Separatists

• Scum

But probably with narrower margins/gaps than before and multiple viable archetypes in all.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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