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Folkvar

A Moment of Respite [Critique]

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I am pretty disappointed with this direction, especially how much of a big problem Crab turned out to be. I was expecting developers to have some sense and do at least some of the following:

1. Restrict all attachment. Tower is going to be continuously a problem and will plague the game if there is no restriction to attachments. By restricting attachments, it will stop Crab from being the monster that it's known to be a better the health of the game overall. Crab have disgustingly been the main culprit to abuse the attachment rule.

2. Remove their saves. This will probably take removing two of the following: Vanguard, Reprieve or Iron mine. Getting rid of one doesn't do much of a dent, two will actually affect them. Literally, they are the only Clan to abuse the save system while others continue to play the game as normal.

3. Watch Commander. Why is this card still in the game? Crab should not be allowed to have any tools for dishonor. It's not in their MO. Get rid of this and this would make them a military focused clan as they are supposed to be.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, countergreen said:

especially how much of a big problem Crab turned out to be.

How big a problem are they?

They've won one Kotei more than Phoenix. They've won one Kotei more than Scorpion. They have the same Favor points as Crane, two fewer than Scorpion. They're fourth in the Glory Race. They aren't making up a disproportion amount of players at events. They aren't making up a disproportionate amount of players in the cut.

They certainly don't seem to be a big problem. There will always be a best Clan, and it appears to be Crab at the moment, but they're nowhere near the runaway Clan that Scorpion were for most of last season.

Edited by Evilgm

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What about Crab says that they cause honour loss to others in the lore? They are a military clan. Watch Commander should have been a Crane card or maybe a Scorpion card by mechanics. Crab being given one of the best braindead honor loss tools in the game seems really atypical of what the clan is supposed to do, military defence.

The Crab have been a runaway success both this year and the last year, that sort of success isn't accidental.

 

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Posted (edited)

Crab's sacred duty is to protect the wall, of course it's dishonorable to attack them. 

Lore flavor aside, they are a clan playing on resources and supply themes. The whole Yasuki family exists to serve as supply chain for the wall. So they have mechanics to make you expend your resources. 

Edited by Nitenman

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The Crab dishonor other clans by making them ashamed that they don't support the war effort to keep the Shadowlands out of the empire. If you attack the Crab militarily you are interfering with their duty given to them by the first Hantei. The Crab themselves don't concern themselves with honor and glory. They do what must be done. Victory at any cost.

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That doesn't answer why they could cause honor loss at all. Crab are not the pinnacle of honor or integrity, that's the Lion or the Crane or even the Scorpion to manipulate. That's like saying the Asahina should get a 7 military character "because they are peaceful but will fight for peace". 

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Posted (edited)

It's less that their courtiers or actions actively make you lose honor. It's reactive, the opponents has to do or not do something to lose honor. It's shameful to attack the Crab in rokugani tradition and lore, because they've been holding shadowlands at bay for a thousand years. 

Not only it is a sacred duty, it's one Rokugan doesn't always like being reminded off. It is impolite to mention taint or the Shadowlands. 

See what cards they have to make you lose honor. 

Hiruma Outpost, you have to attack them on a non holding province

Intimidating Hida, you have to pass a conflict

Levy, you could give them a fate. This one is very thematic, refusing to help the Crab with resources can be badly discussed at court. 

Became infamous because of the recent loop combo. 

Watch Commander, most infamous even, you have to play a card to lose the honor. 

The honor loss is reactive. It isn't Crab that make you lose, you lose honor when you act against Crab. 

It's pernicious, because you somehow lose honor for playing the game. 

Doesn't ease thing either that Crab players have mastered DH as a wincon, towers and Dynasty tutoring for a long time now. 

Edited by Nitenman

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6 minutes ago, Nitenman said:

It's less that their courtiers or actions actively make you lose honor. It's reactive, the opponents has to do or not do something to lose honor. It's shameful to attack the Crab in rokugani tradition and lore, because they've been holding shadowlands at bay for a thousand years. 

Not only it is a sacred duty, it's one Rokugan doesn't always like being reminded off. It is impolite to mention taint or the Shadowlands. 

See what cards they have to make you lose honor. 

Hiruma Outpost, you have to attack them on a non holding province

Intimidating Hida, you have to pass a conflict

Levy, you could give them a fate. This one is very thematic, refusing to help the Crab with resources can be badly discussed at court. 

Became infamous because of the recent loop combo. 

Watch Commander, most infamous even, you have to play a card to lose the honor. 

The honor loss is reactive. It isn't Crab that make you lose, you lose honor when you act against Crab. 

It's pernicious, because you somehow lose honor for playing the game. 

Doesn't ease thing either that Crab players have mastered DH as a wincon, towers and Dynasty tutoring for a long time now. 

Yeah, Scorpion can outright force you to lose honor no matter what you do. (dishonoring characters, some of their events, etc)  Crab at least give a form of "choice control."  Watch Commander doesn't automatically make you lose honor, you just can't play a card while its involved. So in theory you can drop your conflict characters and attachments before declaring the conflict. (events you'll either have to hold, or risk the price) Hida you can toss a pointless dude into a no hope battle... and so on. 

Not saying it's great or anything, but there are at least options a player can do to play around a lot of the cards (instead of it being the equivalent of solitaire).

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On 6/29/2019 at 6:35 AM, countergreen said:

3. Watch Commander. Why is this card still in the game? Crab should not be allowed to have any tools for dishonor. It's not in their MO. Get rid of this and this would make them a military focused clan as they are supposed to be.

Every clan should have the ability to honor and dishonor, it's a crucial pillar to the lore of Rokugan and to the design of the game.  Some clans are just better ait it and/or more deliberate in how they go about it.

Crab has a duty to defend the wall.  Fighting with them is dishonorable since it interferes with their ability to do their duty.

Or you can just look upon the Crab a brutes.  If you roll around in the mud with them, you're gonna get dirty too.  The Crab just don't give a flop about getting dirty.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Crabs just don't give a flop about getting dirty.

Absolutely, they have 4 in clan cards that cost opponent honor and 4 in clan cards that cost them honor, no in clan card that gains them honor or honor folks.

And no in clan opponent character dishonor mechanics. 

Battling with the Crab is a dirty business. And thematically speaking, honor loss is frequent in crab territory, on the border of shadowlands. 

If Crab isn't allowed to DH, neither are Crane and Lion, paragon of courtesy and honor. And Dragon and Phenix, they are too mystic for that. Or even Unicorn, they don't know rokugani ways in court. 

Only the scorpion so, because they are the manipulative vilains? 

Crab isn't just a battle hardened warrior clan, they are the most pragmatic and use all the tools they have to defeat the opponent and further the accomplishment of their sacred duty.

 

Edited by Nitenman

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Posted (edited)
On 6/26/2019 at 9:46 AM, Hinomura said:

To summarize the OP's stance: will whine for free but must be paid to be constructive?

Cool.

This post is counter to how the great majority of players should/could respond to threads that they don’t agree with. If you are aiming at being an ***@%0)3, you succeeded. 

And to those of you who responded with a ‘like’ to his post, shame on you. 

Edited by LordBlunt

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You don't get to post something ridiculous and not get called on it. When a poster outright states, in a lengthy post, that they're determined not to offer anything constructive, they absolutely deserve to be not taken seriously in any way.  And honestly, neither do you - you might want to try developing a thicker skin if you're going to post, oooh, anywhere on the internet.

I may very well be an *******, but at least I come from a position of trying to make things better.

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1 hour ago, Hinomura said:

You don't get to post something ridiculous and not get called on it. When a poster outright states, in a lengthy post, that they're determined not to offer anything constructive, they absolutely deserve to be not taken seriously in any way.  And honestly, neither do you - you might want to try developing a thicker skin if you're going to post, oooh, anywhere on the internet.

I may very well be an *******, but at least I come from a position of trying to make things better.

You know what Hinomura, if this is the direction that veteran posters are taking now, then I don't want to be a part of this game.

Please feel free to continue your ways. You can do so without me. I'm out.

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What just happened? That post looks like Shakespear in the park, dude shows up out of nowhere and berates a seemingly random poster for pointing out that the original poster DEMANDED to be Paid By the Hour for constructive advice.

And then when that person bites back he just Quits L5R Forever! **** dude, I WISH I could be that influential.

But seriously look at the original post. He basically says Spoils of War = Spyglass, which is laughably untrue. And then follows up with, "Pay Me! I'm Important!!" How are we supposed to take this seriously?

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1 hour ago, LordBlunt said:

You know what Hinomura, if this is the direction that veteran posters are taking now, then I don't want to be a part of this game.

Please feel free to continue your ways. You can do so without me. I'm out.

To be fair, most veteran posters don't behave like that. I really like your posts on here and would be sad if you leave the game.

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Everyone has their moments.  I almost wish I knew what the OP said but now that I see where this thread is going, I'm glad I've had him on ignore well before this thread got started.

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6 hours ago, LordBlunt said:

You know what Hinomura, if this is the direction that veteran posters are taking now, then I don't want to be a part of this game.

Please feel free to continue your ways. You can do so without me. I'm out.

Seems like a pretty innocuous comment to cause you to ragequit, but you do you, buddy. Not sure how you got from 'this guy's an ****' to 'this guy also represents the whole of the veteran portion of the community", but I've long since ceased to worry about how other people see things.

You're welcome to rationalize and externalize in any manner you see fit, but your toys out of the pram moment is on you and you alone. I like the community and the game a lot. Hope you rediscover your passion for both in the future too.

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