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Trip Silencers

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Posted (edited)

I thought about Outmaneuver as an option against Boba because he's everywhere in Hyperspace. So like @theBitterFig I did the math.

Important note: Boba is defending here, has 1 force charge active, gets a reroll at range 1.

 

No mods

Out.

Out./Focus

Fanatical

Adv.Opt.

Fan./AO

Range 1

0.7

1.2

2.1

1.2

1.7

2.0

Range 2

0.6

0.9

1.6

1.0

1.4

1.6

Range 3

0.3

0.6

1.1

0.6

0.9

1.1

Conclusion:

  • Outmaneuver and Fanatical (without any other mods) are doing the same amount of damage.
  • AO is stronger than Outmaneuver without mods
  • Outmaneuver gets really good with a focus 
  • ...but isn't much better than Fan./AO

The requirement of Outmaneuver is to be not in arc of the enemy ship which is significantly harder to achieve against Boba because he has two firing arcs (+Slave 1 title). Outmaneuver really starts to shine if you have a focus token so you have only the option to boost or barrel roll. Comparing this to Fan./AO I think the two upgrade option is much stronger because ...

1) you don't need to be out of arc.

2) having the AO option is better than just a focus. AO is always active if you have a focus which is easier to do than arcdodge. This also applies for fanatical after shields are down.

3) Fan./AO is easier to trigger than an Outmaneuver/focus shot imo.

4) both loadouts costs 6 points.

Edited by Ryuneke

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Great work!

7 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

The requirement of Outmaneuver is to be not in arc of the enemy ship which is significantly harder to achieve against Boba because he has two firing arcs (+Slave 1 title).

This is the major sticking point to me.  The extent of which how much easier to use Optics than Outmaneuver is just the dealbreaker.

With a Outmaneuver/Focus and Optics with Fanatical active push the same damage.  Outmaneuver without focus, or Fanatical without focus, also push the same damage.

Outmaneuver is just more difficult.  If a ship couldn't take Fanatical, or it has a hard time getting both actions and dice mods, it's a not-terrible way to get some passive modification that does make an impact on damage dealt.  However, if a ship can take other options, they're probably better.

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16 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

 

  • AO is stronger than Outmaneuver without mods

While true, this is a bit misleading, because for AO to work you need a Focus token, so under the same scenario with Outmaneuver you'd also have a focus token. 

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Posted (edited)
On 1/18/2020 at 7:39 PM, theBitterFig said:

Hyperspace Trip Silencer Archetypes.

  • Kylo + Blackout (Fanatical) + Sienar-Jaemus Engineer.  Without Sense, this is less tempting, but there's 8 points to play with.  The advantage over Kylo FOTP FOTP is that you've got a second Init 5, and maybe the Init 1 is a better blocker.
    • Advanced Optics for Kylo.  It's a decent offensive buff, but puts a soft-restriction on Kylo's actions.  I think it's nice, but not stapled on.

Turns out there's another option: Advanced Optics for the SJ Engineer, and it just went top 4 at Space Jam #3, flown by cody wood.

The more I think about it, the more I like it.

As discussed above, one thing that Optics does is provide a lot of offense while uncontested.  If an Optics ship is safe, the damage creeps up.  That's a bit of a challenge, and someone like a Kylo or a Quickdraw can get position to avoid being shot at, but there's another option.  Put that Optics somewhere your opponent is more likely to ignore it.  The Engineer.

Kylo and Blackout can't be ignored.  They're Init 5 monsters with high mobility and passive mods. They're init 5, so they've got a decent chance to shoot first, but shooting first with an Advanced Optics ship is a bit of a mixed blessing.  They have to decide on Optics before they'll know whether they ought to have used their focus defensively.  The SJE doesn't have that problem, they get to judge best on their defenses first.  Meanwhile, the soft-restriction on actions, where Optics really wants you to focus, is less of an issue, since the SJE is a lot more likely to want to focus in the first place.  Without the Force or Fanatical, it's a lot harder to go without a token.

But mostly, I like the way Optics works on a Silencer as a means of making it a lot more of a threat.  Sometimes it's best to double-down on the most important ship, like Kylo, but there are other times when it'd be better to improve the weakest link.  If your opponent just chases Kylo and concedes the flank to your other ships, the SJE is going to feel a lot less useless.  That seems really wise.

Good job, cody wood.  This feels like a great version of the list to me.

Edited by theBitterFig

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On 2/25/2020 at 3:30 PM, andyee said:

Slightly off-topic, but what you been running alongside the /ba generics?

This what I have been messing around with. 
 

New Squadron

(45) First Order Provocateur [TIE/ba Interceptor]
Points: 45

(45) First Order Provocateur [TIE/ba Interceptor]
Points: 45

(51) Sienar-Jaemus Engineer [TIE/vn Silencer]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 55

(51) Sienar-Jaemus Engineer [TIE/vn Silencer]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 55

Total points: 200

On 3/6/2020 at 7:41 PM, Andyf1702 said:

Is optics worth it on a 3 attack dice ship?

I can see why you would put it on Kylo, but not sure about the other ships as I would expect you would roll at least one focus anyway

Fanatical+Optics can be amazingly good. Average roll on 3 die is hit+focus+blank? With fanatical plus optics, 1 hit becomes three. Fanatical is the best faction talent so far IMO. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

(45) First Order Provocateur [TIE/ba Interceptor]
Points: 45

(45) First Order Provocateur [TIE/ba Interceptor]
Points: 45

(51) Sienar-Jaemus Engineer [TIE/vn Silencer]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 55

(51) Sienar-Jaemus Engineer [TIE/vn Silencer]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 55

Total points: 200

When TieBas first came out, i flew this exact same list to learn the new chassis. Its fun to fly. Its **not** meta. But, in the right hands, can be annoying to fly against. 

Edited by FastWalker

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12 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

This what I have been messing around with. 
 

New Squadron

(45) First Order Provocateur [TIE/ba Interceptor]
Points: 45

(45) First Order Provocateur [TIE/ba Interceptor]
Points: 45

(51) Sienar-Jaemus Engineer [TIE/vn Silencer]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 55

(51) Sienar-Jaemus Engineer [TIE/vn Silencer]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 55

Total points: 200

I was looking at that list, and probably had it packed once or twice, but haven't played it.

I like how everyone in the list has a lot of unopposed offense.  Leave the TIE/ba alone, and they're Focus/Lock on 3 dice.  Leave the SJE alone, and they've got Optics, which is pretty solid.  Everyone is is mobile enough to spread out a bit, to try to get an opponent to commit to one of your ships, letting the others start hitting from relative safety.

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16 hours ago, FastWalker said:

When TieBas first came out, i flew this exact same list to learn the new chassis. Its fun to fly. Its **not** meta. But, in the right hands, can be annoying to fly against. 

Probably correct.  I'll propose a name anyhow: Baa Baa Black Sheep

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Great thread guys, really sound.

I gave in, dropped Blackout 😢 but this has legs:

(76) Kylo Ren [TIE/vn Silencer]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 80

(57) "Rush" [TIE/vn Silencer]
Points: 57

(57) "Recoil" [TIE/vn Silencer]
(1) Marksmanship
Points: 58

Total points: 195

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3 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Great thread guys, really sound.

I gave in, dropped Blackout 😢 but this has legs:

(76) Kylo Ren [TIE/vn Silencer]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 80

(57) "Rush" [TIE/vn Silencer]
Points: 57

(57) "Recoil" [TIE/vn Silencer]
(1) Marksmanship
Points: 58

Total points: 195

i have already tried this list.... i prefere to remove optics for a deeper bid

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15 hours ago, Manolox said:

i have already tried this list.... i prefere to remove optics for a deeper bid

Makes since , I agree with that thought, as shooting first is the key to survival in an Interceptor; plus, Kylo is the best naked ship in the game.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Makes since , I agree with that thought, as shooting first is the key to survival in an Interceptor; plus, Kylo is the best naked ship in the game.

Yes; double agree.

I'd even consider full 200...

Optics on the other two could help them bridge the purple gap (that'd be 199, which is also fine, imo). 

Edited by Bucknife

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Posted (edited)

To comment on the topic as a whole, on instinct only, I'd probably lean towards splitting the third Silencer into a couple Cadets. 

That way, you could add punch to Kylo and keep Blackout as well. 

Even Omega Aces with Proud Trad. could fill in very nicely. 

That's just my rebel (or, Resistance, rather) opinion.  

____

(Sorry to bomb the thread!! 

Don't mean to rain on the parade. I just know I chased the Golden goose with trip T70 for a long time, but the efficiency/output was never really there.)

Edited by Bucknife

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20 hours ago, Bucknife said:

To comment on the topic as a whole, on instinct only, I'd probably lean towards splitting the third Silencer into a couple Cadets. 

Hey, Kylo/Blackout/Cadet/Cadet seems like it has a chance to be a better overall list than Trip Silencers.  It'd be a lot like the Torrential double jedi/double V-19 lists in early Republic.  I've had a decent time flying Kylo/QD/FO/FO, back a ways.  Sense is a great piece on Kylo in one of these lists.

However, there's one potential problem.  It isn't triple Silencer. 

Trips is about mood as much as anything else.

I'm far less parochial about other sorts of spam lists.  Quad T-70 is great as a thought-experiment, but Kaz and Cova are just so good, so when it actually hits the table, why not do that?  I've got no problem mixing Fangs with other things.  But Silencers?  A huge part of the reason to fly them is because they're hypermobile tanks.  Putting three into a list just distills the joy.

If I'm in the mod for three Silencers, no amount of logic or reason will make swapping one out for two FOs at all tempting.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Don't mean to rain on the parade. I just know I chased the Golden goose with trip T70 for a long time, but the efficiency/output was never really there.)

The other bit: while it probably isn't there for Trip T70, it might be here for Silencers.  There have been a few top 4, top 8, type results.  Not a tonne, but enough that the list feels worth it.  Kylo/FOTP/FOTP or Kylo/Blackout/3rd seem like they've got the juice to make a cut.

*edit*

If I had to try to figure out why: while T-70s have some nice T-Rolls, their normal-turn mobility is a lot weaker.  With only 2 green dice, they also can't highroll as well, and will more consistently take chip damage.  And then the #1 thing: Kylo has two Force charges, and Fanatical is basically also the Force.

Edited by theBitterFig

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

The other bit: while it probably isn't there for Trip T70, it might be here for Silencers.  There have been a few top 4, top 8, type results.  Not a tonne, but enough that the list feels worth it.  Kylo/FOTP/FOTP or Kylo/Blackout/3rd seem like they've got the juice to make a cut.

*edit*

If I had to try to figure out why: while T-70s have some nice T-Rolls, their normal-turn mobility is a lot weaker.  With only 2 green dice, they also can't highroll as well, and will more consistently take chip damage.  And then the #1 thing: Kylo has two Force charges, and Fanatical is basically also the Force.

Definitely agree. 

Three agility alone might be enough to give the Silencers an edge over T70s.

Silencers can tallon roll like T70s, but can leverage initiative extraordinarily well with autothrusters double-repo. 

Focus is a stronger action on the Silencers with 3agi, and they can clear stress and retain time on target. 

Kylo, no brainer. 

Lock action needs support on the Xwing chassis in general. More people should probably be taking R3 Astros as staples on any Xwing, but I digress. 

Good luck, gents. 

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On 6/17/2020 at 12:10 PM, clanofwolves said:

(76) Kylo Ren [TIE/vn Silencer]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 80

(57) "Rush" [TIE/vn Silencer]
Points: 57

(57) "Recoil" [TIE/vn Silencer]
(1) Marksmanship
Points: 58

Total points: 195

I really liked this iteration to try. Unfortunately, this isn't Hyperspace legal. (I don't like Hyperspace format. I understand why FFG did it. Just not a fan.)

As an alternative HS format list without Blackout, how about this?...

Kylo Ren (76)
Advanced Optics (4)

"Rush" (57)
Advanced Optics (4)

Sienar-Jaemus Engineer (51)
Advanced Optics (4)

Total: 196

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

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