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Force Majeure

New Points Update #2

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9 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

He’s the first completely untrained Force user Pilot in the game (you could obviously argue Rey, but she’s considerably older, and her pilot represents a greater span of character development whereas lil’ Annie is quite distinctly only from one scene).

Plus at this point in his life, pilot is 100% his identity, and he knows nothing about the force. The fact that he has a force charge comes down to his innate use of the force helping him to fly slightly better; it doesn’t enable him to Coordinate two generic pilots or sense where others are going.

 

tl;dr I thought so at first but I like it better this way.

Personally, I wouldn't given him a Talent of any kind.  No Force Talent (so no Instinctive Aim Proton Torpedoes).  No regular Talent (no Juke).  Doesn't seem unfair, since having the Force *at all* is already better than any talent in the game.

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7 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

that's basically my thought process as well

you get one ESC; you get one Buzz droid

except the Buzz Droid is farted out during engagement (before the vulture gets blown up), even though it triggers (critical) damage at Initiative 0 with no dice involved!

or the opponent could waste shots against them, either or

Hmm hmmhmm. I guess if you can stick a buzz droid it's always going to do at least 1 damage? And on less maneuverable ships will do a ton more? Hmmhmmhmm 

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10 hours ago, millertime059 said:

I just want to circle around to something.

Seventh Sister is now 43 points. One of the already most underrated ships in the Empire, now 3 points cheaper.

She now goes in everything for me.

What do you equip her with?

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34 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Points depending:

FCS always, Hate when possible. Was 48/51 before, now 45/48. Keep her lean, she’s a knife fighting assassin.

I feel like 7th sister doesn't actually get that much more out of upgrades. (Generally upgrades aren't great in this stage of 2.0)

Is it better to keep her lean without 5 points of upgrades? 

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1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

I feel like 7th sister doesn't actually get that much more out of upgrades. (Generally upgrades aren't great in this stage of 2.0)

Is it better to keep her lean without 5 points of upgrades? 

You'll want FCS on her. She does have great action economy, but with 4 HP and 2 red dice she's also completely dependent on having 4+ tokens (focus, evade, lock, force) at all times. At I4 she will sometimes get caught out by a higher initiative ace (especially an interceptor like Soontir or L'ulo), but with an evade token you can most likely shrug off the attack. Against I3 and down you'll probably want to boost, roll and/or focus. Since you give up both your defense and your repositioning by grabbing a lock, you'll only do that when you know you're safe (at R3 behind a gas cloud maybe), which again means you'll want to hold on to it.

I think there's probably something to be said for Passive Sensors on this ship, but probably not on Seventh Sister and probably only if you feel you need to get off that missile and can take losing a ship. 

I like Hate too, and I usually take either Concussion Missiles or Ion Missiles, depending on the points. Both of these have decent synergy with her ability, sometimes letting you force through that one card-flippin' hit or that one extra ion token.

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25 minutes ago, Okapi said:

I like Hate too, and I usually take either Concussion Missiles or Ion Missiles, depending on the points. Both of these have decent synergy with her ability, sometimes letting you force through that one card-flippin' hit or that one extra ion token. 

Ummm... no? Her ability works only with primary attack, that's what the card says...

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1 hour ago, Okapi said:

I like Hate too

Because her ability needs both force charges to trigger, I think Hate is almost an automatic choice. Frankly I'd pick that before the fire control system (though I'd get that afterwards....)

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15 hours ago, Revanxv said:

Well about that, Republic also got hit. 4 point increase on Anakin (6 if you count R2 astromech) is a tough pill to swallow. Other Jedi (excluding Obi and Plo) also went up when using 7b which let's face it - is still the only viable config for Delta 7.

You realize that only 2 things in the entire Republic list went up in points.  Anakin and 7B.  People have said that the Republic faction is now "useless".  Really?  Almost everything else went down in points.  When I hear things like Delta 7 is the only viable config......for an entire faction...I just laugh.   

12 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

The buzz droids seem really quite hard to pull off though? I suppose against certain targets they can do good DoT. And I also suppose you often only manage to get off one ESC a game.... 

I've only messed a bit with Buzz Droids, but there are a few things to think of.  First, if you fall short, there is still a good chance they might just run over it when they move.  Also, it becomes an obstacle on the board that you get to ignore.  When you are dealing with a list that is all arc-dodgy, that matters.  

I do question about only getting off one ESC per game.  Maybe it's because I fly about 6-7 Vultures with ESC, but I get ESC off a bunch of times in a game.  As in, I reload the ESC and fire again.  Not every Vulture Droid lives long enough, but enough usually do.  With Grapplers going down in price, I can recommend taking a big rock and placing it just past R3 from your deployment.  Send a Vulture with Grapplers on that rock and sit there all game.  You fling ESC, reload.  Rinse and repeat.   You hover at the edge of most combat all game and you get the extra defensive dice for being behind an obstacle (if you land right).  

6 hours ago, Velvetelvis said:

Those N1 prices tho

I am very happy to see the prices on the N-1.  I was pretty worried it was going to be OP.  The cost of it makes me realize that it won't be too insane.

1 hour ago, Okapi said:

I like Hate too, and I usually take either Concussion Missiles or Ion Missiles, depending on the points. Both of these have decent synergy with her ability, sometimes letting you force through that one card-flippin' hit or that one extra ion token.

I'm curious about Concussion Missiles.  I have not really rated their ability and generally ignored them.  They are the one main damaging R2-3 Missile, though.   Do you get them because of the special ability?  Or just for the only decent range missile?   Does the ability ever happen?  I'm just curious.

 

=========

 

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the changes.  A few things that get used too often got to be more expensive.  A lot of things went down in price, but just a bit.   It seems a slight tweak to make a lot more playable and a few choice hits with points increase.  I like it.

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15 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

You realize that only 2 things in the entire Republic list went up in points.  Anakin and 7B.  People have said that the Republic faction is now "useless".  Really?  Almost everything else went down in points.  When I hear things like Delta 7 is the only viable config......for an entire faction...I just laugh.   

It's mainly because Jedi with 7B config is what most Republic players like about the faction. They are the quintessential aces and Anakin was the purest of them all. Most don't want to fly a bunch of clones and support, they want cool Jedi doing cool jedi things.

 

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Will Contracted Scouts be able to become true Bump-Masters once again?

Could something like this have potensial?

* Contracted Scout (44)    
    Agile Gunner (8)    
Ship total: 52  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 5    
*Contracted Scout (44)    
    Agile Gunner (8)    
Ship total: 52  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 5       
* Black Sun Enforcer (46)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 3    
* Black Sun Enforcer (46)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 3    
Total: 200

If you are a good blocker having 2 large bases to block with is great even if the dial is....well named Jumpmaster. Agile Gunner now lets them always get a 2 dice shot, which isn't amazing, but we have all had the games where we have to spend our focus to defend against them which leaves the starvipers to get a big hit through.

Now after adding the vipers I had 4 more points and the obvioous choice was FCS but is it really worth it? Maybe Dead mans switch on the jumps or a 4 point bid to move first?

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40 minutes ago, Pink_Viking said:

It's mainly because Jedi with 7B config is what most Republic players like about the faction. They are the quintessential aces and Anakin was the purest of them all. Most don't want to fly a bunch of clones and support, they want cool Jedi doing cool jedi things.

 

I guess that is what you see from your perspective.  I know at least a third of the Republic players in my area refuse to fly with Jedi as they don't like that style.  So, when you say things like "most" it's all a matter of perspective.   Yes, Anakin was the purest of them all....and a little too good.   That's why he's getting an increase in points.  One pilot with one configuration went up in points.  Doesn't mean that the entire faction is down because some players preferred super elite aces at maximum efficiency and it's not there anymore.  Playing without 7B is still a viable tactic.  Playing without Anakin is still a possibility....or Anakin with 7B and something other than another Jedi Ace with the same build.  

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37 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'd probably prefer Mace over Plo.

It's like Ello Asty versus Snap Wexley.  Init versus ability.  I kind of like the thought of Plo with this many R2s in the list.  Stealing the disarm token to let Obi or Ric get a good Range 1 shot and also regen a shield might be handy.  I'm keen to put it on the table, with either this or CLT Ani/Obi/Plo.

Quote

I don't think the single Juke is gonna be worth it though.  7 is a LOT of points.

Maybe.  But like, what else is there?  I guess Predator could work, but it's also pretty limited in effect.  The cheapness would allow an easy Collision Detector on Ric, though, without utterly trashing the bid.

Meanwhile, Juke is either Hotshot Gunner or Crack Shot, so I don't think a single version is too bad.

48 minutes ago, Pink_Viking said:

It's mainly because Jedi with 7B config is what most Republic players like about the faction. They are the quintessential aces and Anakin was the purest of them all. Most don't want to fly a bunch of clones and support, they want cool Jedi doing cool jedi things.

*cough*Calibrated Laser Targeting*cough*

That's even ace-ier than 7B.  Ship still has all the same tricks, and if the points adjustment gets folks to try it out, they might like it.  7B was wicked easy, but CLT doesn't seem that much harder, particular on Anakin.

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3 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

*cough*Calibrated Laser Targeting*cough*

That's even ace-ier than 7B.  Ship still has all the same tricks, and if the points adjustment gets folks to try it out, they might like it.  7B was wicked easy, but CLT doesn't seem that much harder, particular on Anakin.

I know, and Precise Shot just dropped to 1 pt (down 3!).  

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13 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I guess that is what you see from your perspective.  I know at least a third of the Republic players in my area refuse to fly with Jedi as they don't like that style.  So, when you say things like "most" it's all a matter of perspective.   Yes, Anakin was the purest of them all....and a little too good.   That's why he's getting an increase in points.  One pilot with one configuration went up in points.  Doesn't mean that the entire faction is down because some players preferred super elite aces at maximum efficiency and it's not there anymore.  Playing without 7B is still a viable tactic.  Playing without Anakin is still a possibility....or Anakin with 7B and something other than another Jedi Ace with the same build.  

I agree with you in that Republic is far far from being unplayable, although I don't think 6pts increase to popular Anakin build was really necessary and seems to me it was motivated more by a desire to shake up the meta than actual balance concern.

Personally it just seems to me that something like Luminara/Sinker/4x GST is far more boring to play with and against than 2xDelta/2xTorrent was so I wouldn't like to see Republic being forced into swarmy/jousty/efficiency lists. I get that other may prefer these lists, so I would prefer more viable options. Lowering Kenobi and Plo were steps in the right direction imho, can't wait to field this smug Jedi again.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I know, and Precise Shot just dropped to 1 pt (down 3!).  

Predictive Shot is still not worth taking.  With CLT, since you'll be able to spend a force to convert the newly-added eye to a hit, so you'll almost always have as many hits as the opponent will have defense dice.

Actually, playing with the calc ( http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=AwAAAAAAAAAA&a1=IwMAAAAACIAA ), CLT Obi-Wan at range 2 with 3 force and a Lock against a 3 agility ship without focus actually does LESS damage if using Predictive Shot.  The fact that you spend the force means you won't be able to convert eye-eye plus CLT eye, you'll need to reroll.

Ironically, Predictive Shot works better with Delta 7B.  It still usually pushes less damage than Heroic.

//

Predictive Shot is probably the worst upgrade printed in 2nd Edition.  If it had a different timing, it'd probably be OK, however.  If you got to spend the force *after* you've seen your dice results, you'd be able to use it to help push through single-hit attacks.  It'd need a higher price, but it wouldn't be a trashfire of an upgrade.  As printed, it's just so mathematically bad that it's almost never worth using at any price.

Edited by theBitterFig

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1 hour ago, Pink_Viking said:

It's mainly because Jedi with 7B config is what most Republic players like about the faction. They are the quintessential aces and Anakin was the purest of them all. Most don't want to fly a bunch of clones and support, they want cool Jedi doing cool jedi things.

 

I like one Jedi with a bunch of clones. I have fielded neither Jedi with 7B nor Anakin. I like my clones in my ARCs. That drop on Squad Seven Veteran and some of the other ARCs as well as the torrent drops and Dedicated drop is more exciting to me than changes to Jedi. 

Although I do agree that many of these changes seem more like shake up the meta changes than balance changes. 

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I just noticed that with the price drops on CLT and most jedi you'll be able to field any 4 named jedi (as long as none of those names is Anakin) all with CLT. That's a lot of bullseye arcs and a lot of Force charges on the table.

By my count you could have all four of the i4s with CLT for 182 points allowing significant other upgrades (you could take R2s on Mace, Lumi and Saesee). If I had enough jedi fighters I'd give it a try.

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3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Because her ability needs both force charges to trigger, I think Hate is almost an automatic choice. Frankly I'd pick that before the fire control system (though I'd get that afterwards....)

Personal preference. I prefer FCS over hate, with only 4 health I don’t feel like allowing extra shots to begin with, but both have merits.

She is also a sneaky ship. With only 2 dice opponents never really focus on her if you have a bigger gun, which really opens the space for her to work. Half my games she never even gets shot at.

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2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

You realize that only 2 things in the entire Republic list went up in points.  Anakin and 7B.  People have said that the Republic faction is now "useless".  Really?  Almost everything else went down in points.  When I hear things like Delta 7 is the only viable config......for an entire faction...I just laugh

Yes! So much this. I think I literally only had one Republic list of 20 go above 200. And it was Super 7b Anakin And Mace (no regen droids). All others? Stayed the same or went down. And I’ve had a very high success rate with Republic. They’ll be fine. It’s just the people who relied on regen Anakin that are hurt. But since I literally never flew that, I don’t care 😄

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Gallanteer said:

Rebels appear to have been nerfed all over the place for all the stuff worth flying - including generics.


Rebels got utterly hammered with this change.  Every single change that affects the Rebels affects them negatively (in the sense of losing slots or prices increasing).  The other factions, while they have a few increases to cost, still generally harvested a handful of price reductions to play with.  Even the Imperials, which have been wanting for nothing, still have a quite a few generous gifts to play with in this change.

Are we to believe that nothing in the Rebel line-up could have afforded to get cheaper?  RZA1s can't be made any better?  Dash/Outrider really needs to stay unplayably expensive?  Rebel Gunners really need to stay north of 12 points?! 

It is a dark time for the Rebellion indeed...

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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