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Force Majeure

New Points Update #2

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20 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

seriously.

Fixing anything with multiple mod slots is going to need the later slots being discounted at this stage for them not to stink forever.

I'm so disappointed, still, that the K Fighter didn't get a red boost instead of a white roll.  Then Engine Upgrade would have been worthwhile.

Especially as the Engine Upgrade card actually shows a Kihraxz.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Some Kihraxz-specific mods would be interesting.

Or a Black-One-like illicit to grant a 3-charge red boost? 

I'd be down with this.  It could even be drawn from canon - there was a Star Wars Resistance episode that featured the "Corellian hyperfuel" coaxium, as well as said fuel being central to the plot of Solo.  This would fit perfectly into the illicit slot, and it would be thematic as well, although I'd kick it up a notch.  Since it's so powerful, I would do this:

Coaxium Fuel Cell (Scale-costed to base size 4/7/10)

Illicit + Modification Slot / 3 Charges.  Grants white [Boost] > red [SLAM] or white [SLAM] > red [Boost]. (Both options on the card)

After you perform a [SLAM] action, lose 1 [Charge].  Then you may suffer one [Hit] damage or gain 3 ion tokens to remove one disarm token.

This card's charges cannot be recovered. 

 

I really miss 1.0 Burnout SLAM. :(

Edited by feltipern1

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2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

oh no! The most efficient rebel stuff that was seen absolutely everywhere got a deserved point increase!?

what ever shall we do !?!?!?

Run!!

Hide!!!

Plead for mercy!!!!

Scatter your forces!!!

With a point increase this massive what chance do we have??!!

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

I'd be down with this.  It could even be drawn from canon - there was a Star Wars Resistance episode that featured the "Corellian hyperfuel" coaxium, as well as said fuel being central to the plot of Solo.  This would fit perfectly into the illicit slot, and it would be thematic as well, although I'd kick it up a notch.  Since it's so powerful, I would do this:

I was thinking more like:

Adds [red boost]

After you perform a boost action, lose a charge.

If all your charges are inactive, you cannot perform [boost] actions.

3 charges, non-recurring.

4/8/12 points or else small ship only.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

You’re asking us to wait 6 months based on nothing but hope!

Rebellions are build on hope ;)

 

 

That said, Rebels are absolutely not in a bad shape.

What irks me is that some of the force users (but Maul crew increased, wtf) and force talents got cheaper - stupid passive mods! And also some of the supermobiles like Silencers and certain Jedi got cheaper. Had hoped for more increases for the high initiative/passive abilities or passive mods without downsides/super dials. Good flying with a "brick" and catching e. g. a Jedi in arc should be rewarded. But with force being cheap you still do not hit them or do really low damage if hitting.

Edited by Managarmr

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14 hours ago, feltipern1 said:

Grants white [Boost] > red [SLAM] or white [SLAM] > red [Boost]. (Both options on the card)

you can't get SLAM as a linked action. Otherwise, sounds cool.

 

 

17 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

oh no! The most efficient rebel stuff that was seen absolutely everywhere got a deserved point increase!?

what ever shall we do !?!?!?

Join the Galactic Empire, obviously. We'll have you flying in no time. :ph34r:

 

 

Slightly intrigued by how cheap Calibrated Laser Targeting now is. Yes, all right, it's arguably a bit rubbish. But five Jedi Knights could be very intriguing.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, feltipern1 said:

I'd be down with this.  It could even be drawn from canon - there was a Star Wars Resistance episode that featured the "Corellian hyperfuel" coaxium, as well as said fuel being central to the plot of Solo.  This would fit perfectly into the illicit slot, and it would be thematic as well, although I'd kick it up a notch.  Since it's so powerful, I would do this:

Coaxium Fuel Cell (Scale-costed to base size 4/7/10)

Illicit + Modification Slot / 3 Charges.  Grants white [Boost] > red [SLAM] or white [SLAM] > red [Boost]. (Both options on the card)

After you perform a [SLAM] action, lose 1 [Charge].  Then you may suffer one [Hit] damage or gain 3 ion tokens to remove one disarm token.

This card's charges cannot be recovered. 

 

I really miss 1.0 Burnout SLAM. :(

You couldn't link a SLAM after another action.  SLAM HAS to be your Perform Action Step action, a linked action after your PA Step action is not the same thing.  Nothing stops it working the other way round, though.

 

I'd just like them to errata the K Fighter to have red boost rather than white roll.  It's just so disappointingly similar in feel to the Scyk as it stands.  I know they won't, but a man can dream.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'd just like them to errata the K Fighter to have red boost rather than white roll.  It's just so disappointingly similar in feel to the Scyk as it stands.  I know they won't, but a man can dream.

The K fighter would be a much better ship with boost (especially Talonbane), but I like the fact that there are several X Wing-like ships in the game, and what sets the T-65s apart are their s-foils. 

Maybe a Vaksai configuration could take away its barrel roll and give it a boost (similar to a T-65 upgrading to the T-70 sans S-Foils)?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

you can't get SLAM as a linked action. Otherwise, sounds cool.

Why not?  All the rulebook says is that it can only be performed in your Perform Action step.  Cards have messed with this many times already ;)

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

You couldn't link a SLAM after another action.  SLAM HAS to be your Perform Action Step action, a linked action after your PA Step action is not the same thing.  Nothing stops it working the other way round, though.

Same thing as above - I'm curious what other restrictions apply that would prevent the action order of Boost > red SLAM.  I haven't seen any.

Whalers on the moon, you said "The K fighter would be a much better ship with boost (especially Talonbane), but I like the fact that there are several X Wing-like ships in the game, and what sets the T-65s apart are their s-foils. 

Maybe a Vaksai configuration could take away its barrel roll and give it a boost (similar to a T-65 upgrading to the T-70 sans S-Foils)?"

I like the idea of a Vaksai configuration.

Edited by feltipern1

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Posted (edited)
On 6/26/2019 at 9:42 AM, millertime059 said:

Yes! So much this. I think I literally only had one Republic list of 20 go above 200. And it was Super 7b Anakin And Mace (no regen droids). All others? Stayed the same or went down. And I’ve had a very high success rate with Republic. They’ll be fine. It’s just the people who relied on regen Anakin that are hurt. But since I literally never flew that, I don’t care 😄

~85% of Jedi making top cuts at actual competitive events (40+ players) were 7B/R2. You say its just Ani/Mace lists, but all competitive versions of trip Jedi (usually trip i4s all with 7B/R2) caught about 8-10 pts.

We can speculate about weather quad CLT will be competitive (my guess is no), but it's a fact that the only proven, consistently successful load-out for Jedi got nerfed hard.

Edited by prauxim

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1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

Why not?  All the rulebook says is that it can only be performed in your Perform Action step.  Cards have messed with this many times already ;)

Same thing as above - I'm curious what other restrictions apply that would prevent the action order of Boost > red SLAM.  I haven't seen any.

Whalers on the moon, you said "The K fighter would be a much better ship with boost (especially Talonbane), but I like the fact that there are several X Wing-like ships in the game, and what sets the T-65s apart are their s-foils. 

Maybe a Vaksai configuration could take away its barrel roll and give it a boost (similar to a T-65 upgrading to the T-70 sans S-Foils)?"

I like the idea of a Vaksai configuration.

Yes, they do, as I stated.  SLAM has to be your Perform Action Step action, and a linked action after your Perform Action Step action is not your Perform Action Step action.

 

I really, really don't want to see FFG publishing fix cards.  That way madness lies.

 

I really, really wish they were more willing to just errata stuff.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/26/2019 at 8:42 AM, theBitterFig said:

Predictive Shot is still not worth taking.  With CLT, since you'll be able to spend a force to convert the newly-added eye to a hit, so you'll almost always have as many hits as the opponent will have defense dice.

Actually, playing with the calc ( http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=AwAAAAAAAAAA&a1=IwMAAAAACIAA ), CLT Obi-Wan at range 2 with 3 force and a Lock against a 3 agility ship without focus actually does LESS damage if using Predictive Shot.  The fact that you spend the force means you won't be able to convert eye-eye plus CLT eye, you'll need to reroll.

Ironically, Predictive Shot works better with Delta 7B.  It still usually pushes less damage than Heroic.

//

Predictive Shot is probably the worst upgrade printed in 2nd Edition.  If it had a different timing, it'd probably be OK, however.  If you got to spend the force *after* you've seen your dice results, you'd be able to use it to help push through single-hit attacks.  It'd need a higher price, but it wouldn't be a trashfire of an upgrade.  As printed, it's just so mathematically bad that it's almost never worth using at any price.

It was laughable at 4 pts, but it may actually be playable at 1.

If you have focus/force/no TL (as CLT will tend to do) it gives +0.4 hits if they are rolling 4 green (assuming not R1, true for 7B and CLT).
In the rare case of 5 green die it becomes better at 0.7 hits.

You'd only do it if the opp costs were acceptable, maybe that happens often enough to warrant 1pt? Idk, but I'll give it a try. Mace seems like a prime candidate (assuming Sense doesn't fit)

Edited by prauxim

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Posted (edited)

It's not so much spending force en masse.

It's a question of Focus/Predictive Shot (assuming you've spent 1 force on Predictive shot) versus Force/Target Lock (assuming you spend 1 force on the attack).

Which actually come out at exactly the same number of damage results for both*.

 

(If you have more force to spare, then good on you, but then in the specific example you gave, Obiwan would always pick focusing over locking, because he can 'regenerate' the focus to use defensively)

 

It's not an especially devastating ability, but at 1 point it's not bad. On an agility 3 target, especially if at range, obscured, or getting bonus dice for other reasons, you're likely to cost it at least one green dice, and you've not lost any damage potential with Focus/Predictive Shot compared to Force/Target Lock.

It's much the same as calibrated laser targeting itself. If you're trying to convert the extra eyeball result by spending force, you're on a losing curve, because you're spending force to reposition to get the bullseye, then spending MORE force to turn the focus into a hit. But a 'proper' focus token doesn't care how many focus results you have, it changes all of them.

 

* For the sake of explanation:

  • Target Lock and Focus are identical in effect on the same number of dice; 2 dice with lock and 2 dice with focus produce the same percentage chance of any given number of hits, because the number of hits, crits and focuses (6/8 = 3/4) is the same as the odds of rolling only hits or crits on a rerolled dice (1-(4/8 x 4/8) = 3/4) 
  • Therefore the odds on the two dice you actually roll are identical
  • On the dice you merely add, with lock/force the force token automatically makes it a hit, ditto the focus token, so it doesn't actually affect the results.

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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Posted (edited)

 

2 hours ago, feltipern1 said:

Why not?  All the rulebook says is that it can only be performed in your Perform Action step.  Cards have messed with this many times already ;)

Same thing as above - I'm curious what other restrictions apply that would prevent the action order of Boost > red SLAM.  I haven't seen any.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yes, they do, as I stated.  SLAM has to be your Perform Action Step action, and a linked action after your Perform Action Step action is not your Perform Action Step action.

 

Feltipern1, what thespaceinvader is referring to is this text from the rules document:

"A ship can perform a [SLAM] action only as the ship’s one action during the Perform Action step. Therefore a ship cannot perform a [SLAM] action if it is granted an action from another effect." pg 17 X Wing Second Edition Rules Reference v 1.0.4.

That is likely that was implemented as preventative measure, broadly against coordinate SLAM shenanigans, and likely against some specific interactions that I am unaware of.  

However in all my searching through the rules reference 1.0.4, I could not find anything that firmly states that linked actions do not happen in the "perform action" step, and no other actions have similar rulings (i.e: only being usable in the "perform action step.") As such, should they make a card that has/grants a linked red SLAM action they would have to either clarify if linked actions happen in the perform action step, or add a line to the above rule to the effect of "linked actions happen in during the 'perform action' step." And the use of the words "only action" make it seem like you cant do anything else, but advanced SLAM seems to disagree.

Feltpern1, I hope this addresses your question clearly, as it was not before. I am not a judge or X-Wing rules expert, but as they currently stand, I would agree with thespaceinvader's assessment of this ruling.

And to make this truly rambley, if the Kihraxz needs anything, it's not a SLAM action, its better Illicits. Let the spice flow, BRING BACK GLITTERSTIM! VIVA LA STUPEFIANTS!

Edited by Seraphimtoaster375

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1 hour ago, prauxim said:

It was laughable at 4 pts, but it may actually be playable at 1.

If you have focus/force/no TL (as CLT will tend to do) it gives +0.4 hits if they are rolling 4 green (assuming not R1, true for 7B and CLT).
In the rare case of 5 green die it becomes better at 0.7 hits.

You'd only do it if the opp costs were acceptable, maybe that happens often enough to warrant 1pt? Idk, but I'll give it a try. Mace seems like a prime candidate (assuming Sense doesn't fit)

I'd still rather have a point of bid, than being able to get a bit of a benefit when bullseye, through an obstacle, at range 3, of a 3 agility ship, and only with a Focus action.

Quote

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

All in good fun, though.

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1 hour ago, Seraphimtoaster375 said:

" And the use of the words "only action" make it seem like you cant do anything else, but advanced SLAM seems to disagree.

And to make this truly rambley, if the Kihraxz needs anything, it's not a SLAM action, its better Illicits. Let the spice flow, BRING BACK GLITTERSTIM! VIVA LA STUPEFIANTS!

Advanced SLAM grants an additional action (so you can at least be a bit defensive after you blow out your guns trying to juice the engines - never understood quite how that would translate into physical effects on a ship, though.  Did you fire the engines so hard that you fused the barrels of your laser cannons?  Burn them off going so fast that a purgill couldn't catch you if it tried?  I just don't know...), but it is a modification, so there's weasel room.  I can understand how that one works.  Likewise, I can see the reason that @thespaceinvader is giving in the rules.  However, I do appreciate the discussion on my fictitious, but hopefully future game-breaking (or even better-designed, but in-the-pipeline), card :)

In case you haven't noticed (the bold, italicunderline emphasis should give it away) I agree with your revolutionary sentiment above, but I think that, sadly, we will never see Glitterstim in the same form as the OP version that 1.0 had. ;)  However, I can imagine what it'd be like in 2.0:

Glitterstim - 2 charges, Illicit slot (3 pts)

"Before you activate, spend a charge on this card.  During your activation, your [Focus] results may not be modified by enemy ships

Alternatively;

Glitterstim - 2 charges, Illicit slot (5 pts)

"Before you activate, spend a charge on this card.  During your activation, you may change any blank results to [Focus] results.  This does not prevent other dice modification.

For all the rest of you, I'm going to stop hijacking the thread, now.  It was originally about the new points updates, so feel free to pull it back on track :)

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2 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

never understood quite how that would translate into physical effects on a ship, though.

Power allocation. Weapon system power is shunted into the engines disabling the weapons.

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40 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'd still rather have a point of bid, than being able to get a bit of a benefit when bullseye, through an obstacle, at range 3, of a 3 agility ship, and only with a Focus action.

You're selling it a bit short. Range 3 OR through an obstacle on 3agi gives results better than a TL would, r3 + obstacle makes that true for 2 agi.

With CLT you already want to focus anyway unless your going to be R1, esp with cheapObi, and getting Bullseye with some regularity is already part of your win condition.

Similar to Heroic, its mitigates the worst scenarios. Heroic only gives 0.04 hits on AO RZ2s and it's seeing wide spread play. 

Idk, good chance you're right and I am being overly optimistic due to the desire for a decent cheap force power, but I'm gonna give it a try.

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14 minutes ago, prauxim said:

Similar to Heroic, its mitigates the worst scenarios. Heroic only gives 0.04 hits on AO RZ2s and it's seeing wide spread play

Heroic AO has a high probability for 2 hits every time, from 81 to 86% basically. It also increases the probability of you keeping your focus after the fact, by about 10%. It is really good when you look at it that way. It also increases crit probability slightly, and helps when you have no focus, increasing the odds of 1 hit by 10%, and 2 hits by 5%.

so, yes, it is insurance against bad dice. But it also helps to save the focus for times when you’re getting shot, or frees you to spend it more on defense when shooting last. I would kill for Heroic on so many ships. Interceptors, Strikers? Heck yeah.

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