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Most Hated Pilots

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

If this pans out, it may at last be the beginning of a new golden age for generic Punishers.

They said I was MAD when I bought three in First Edition...

My first thoughts tend towards Gunboats, while they have approximately the same toughness, Star Wings are so much cheaper than Punishers.  32 vs 38.  However, Punisher has an actual K-Turn, which might be better.  A lot of Gunboat tricks (Advanced SLAM and Passive Sensors cannot be used in the same turn; OS-1 without Fire Control System is kinda sketchy) won't be as good on Passive Sensors Gunboats, so maybe that also leans back towards Punishers.

But maybe Passive Sensors, Torpedoes, and XG-1/Autoblaster is the way to go.  Easy attacks while SLAMing or reloading, plus easy Torpedoes...

Edited by theBitterFig

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, AceDogbert said:

If his points go up as some want, I don't know how well Rebels will cope. 

This seems like the wrong way to look at it. If one ship is carrying the faction, that ship is not correctly priced in comparison to the rest of the faction. Either it needs to go up, the rest needs to go down, or (usually) some mix of both. I want to live in a world where list-building is mostly super wide open and any given pilot has a very good reason to be taken, all doing reasonably well in competition by people who fly them a lot. Of course this is a bit of a fairy-tale, but it's the whole goal of this 2.0 thing anyway, so let's keep dreaming.

But also the Rebels have so many other fantastic options right now, many of which are totally overlooked because a few ABUXY pilots are just so efficient and reliable. Rebels are in no danger.

Unrelated, but one of the other comments here made me think; what would it take to make Torpedoes and Missiles worth taking on the VCX, Decimator, YTs, etc.? My model brought most missiles down to 2-4 points which would be a great start, but the Ghost's primary is already 4 dice and the Decimator is such a points sink from the get-go...

 

Back on topic, my most hated pilot is probably Quickdraw. I basically have to tell myself that if I can't clear all his shields with one shot I'm going to be hurting for a while.

Unfortunately, now that I've finally gotten into FO, there's nothing decent to fly with him.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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3 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Unfortunately, now that I've finally gotten into FO, there's nothing decent to fly with him.

Hey... over here! Shh... quiet, quiet, don't say anything—Keep it on the down low—what you wanna try is Muse+Squad Leader & Biohexacrypt Codes and a named Silencer, see? It's like advanced sensors and Supernatural for your boys.

Mum's the word. You never heard it from me. Now scram before the heat comes down on both of us!

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4 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

Hey... over here! Shh... quiet, quiet, don't say anything—Keep it on the down low—what you wanna try is Muse+Squad Leader & Biohexacrypt Codes and a named Silencer, see? It's like advanced sensors and Supernatural for your boys.

Mum's the word. You never heard it from me. Now scram before the heat comes down on both of us!

*raises hand*

Can you walk me through how this combo works and what it does? I’m staring at everything in YASB but don’t get it.

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2 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

*raises hand*

Can you walk me through how this combo works and what it does? I’m staring at everything in YASB but don’t get it.

  1. Muse in the first round would take a Target Lock on the friendly Silencer/other friendly ship.
  2. Later on, when Muse activates at I2 on a needed round, they use Squad Leader to perform a Red Coordinate to a friendly ship (Beyond range 2 on the Locked ship if needed using Biohex Codes & spending the lock)
  3. Muse receives a Stress token for performing the Red Coordinate
  4. At the start of Engagement, Muse removes 1 Stress token from a friendly ship at range 0-1... As it doesn't say -Other- friendly ship, they remove their own Stress.

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Rebel Han is currently a PITA with all the Inertial Dampener and R2-D2 abuse. His ability clearly should have been charge-based.

Nien Numb is awful. A skinny Nien is annoying; a Nien with Afterburners, Black One, Pattern Analyzer, and HLC is infuriating. His ability clearly should have been charge-based (as they did with Anakin).

Otherwise good. Ready for some point changes and rotation, though. Getting tired of the same-old in tournaments

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3 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

Dash.  Always and forever.

Dash is a $#@&!  90's Fake Han with his Rob Liefeld pouches and Xtreme 'tude.

Dash also was everything I ever hated in 1st edition.

Watched a Dash vs Triple Jumpmaster match and I was rooting for the Jumpmasters.  That's how much I hate Dash.

What was it in the 90s with everyone wearing ammo pouches? There were characters who didn't even carry guns that would wander around wearing ammo pouches. What the hey.

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2 hours ago, ChahDresh said:

What was it in the 90s with everyone wearing ammo pouches? There were characters who didn't even carry guns that would wander around wearing ammo pouches. What the hey.

 

1 minute ago, Octarine-08 said:

Where else are you going to keep your munchies?

^ and WEB gear/ammo pouches were also pretty dang good for carrying allot more sedate things than ammunition. Batteries, phones, etc. If it was slightly larger than pocket sized or smaller then putting it into an "ammo" pouch just worked and you could carry allot more on you with a slightly better ease of access than just relying on pockets or a backpack. :)

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10 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

 

^ and WEB gear/ammo pouches were also pretty dang good for carrying allot more sedate things than ammunition. Batteries, phones, etc. If it was slightly larger than pocket sized or smaller then putting it into an "ammo" pouch just worked and you could carry allot more on you with a slightly better ease of access than just relying on pockets or a backpack. :)

While your point is valid in the abstract, how many character designs these days include handfuls of ammo pouches? Sure, we can talk about their relative merits as storage solutions, but we both know that's not why they proliferated in art throughout the 90s only to disappear shortly thereafter.

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39 minutes ago, ChahDresh said:

While your point is valid in the abstract, how many character designs these days include handfuls of ammo pouches? Sure, we can talk about their relative merits as storage solutions, but we both know that's not why they proliferated in art throughout the 90s only to disappear shortly thereafter.

Maybe Y2K did to ammo pouches what Roadhouse did to mullets.

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7 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

Dash.  Always and forever.

Dash is a $#@&!  90's Fake Han with his Rob Liefeld pouches and Xtreme 'tude.

Dash also was everything I ever hated in 1st edition.

Watched a Dash vs Triple Jumpmaster match and I was rooting for the Jumpmasters.  That's how much I hate Dash.

I feel the hate flowing through you.

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1 hour ago, astronautcowboy said:

People really seem to hate / always target Anakin first, and I’m not 100% that it solely has to do with his abilities and points value.

I mean, if it's Anakin versus half your list...there aren't many scenarios where you win.

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Most hated ship: Wedge. He is so cheap that he became an autoinclude.

He is ONLY 11 points more expensive than the cheapest X-Wing for +5 IN and a permanent Outmaneuver without the requirements to be out of arc (Outmaneuver is 6p by itself normally).

Lets compare to his direct counterpart (Soontir Fel, 52 points). If Soontir loses the IN-bet, he is toast. More notably he is 18p more expensive than the cheapest Tie-Interceptor. With a worse ability. To have a chance against Wedge you need to BID at least 4 points (to be sure you can outfly him, but even then thats not always working).

Or another IN6 Pilot. Fenn Rau. He is 24p more expensive than the cheapest Fang Fighter. TWENTYFOUR.

Wedge should at LEAST cost 58. And he would STILL see a lot of play (would bet on that).

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7 hours ago, beardxofxdeath said:

Most hated ship: Wedge. He is so cheap that he became an autoinclude.

He is ONLY 11 points more expensive than the cheapest X-Wing for +5 IN and a permanent Outmaneuver without the requirements to be out of arc (Outmaneuver is 6p by itself normally).

Lets compare to his direct counterpart (Soontir Fel, 52 points). If Soontir loses the IN-bet, he is toast. More notably he is 18p more expensive than the cheapest Tie-Interceptor. With a worse ability. To have a chance against Wedge you need to BID at least 4 points (to be sure you can outfly him, but even then thats not always working).

Or another IN6 Pilot. Fenn Rau. He is 24p more expensive than the cheapest Fang Fighter. TWENTYFOUR.

Wedge should at LEAST cost 58. And he would STILL see a lot of play (would bet on that).

Okay, there IS a good reason for Interceptor-style ships to scale much more by initiative than jousters. I mean, they just die because they can't dodge anything anyway. Their value growth is EXPONENTIAL based on initiative. For X-Wings? Not so much.

Of course, Wedge is definitely still way too cheap. 52 is a bargain for a beefy I6 ship in the first place, but then there's his bonkers ability on top of that. It's pretty ridiculous. I'd see him at 55-58. Fenn, Vader, Soontir are all fine or maybe a tad cheap (they're still consistently doing the best in their faction), and I think the Saber and Alpha actually need to go down in order to see play.

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8 minutes ago, Gallanteer said:

Looks great but completely uncompetitive.

So far...

Personally, I'm indifferent towards it at the moment. Once it comes to Hyperspace and has access to some of the new upgrades from the upcoming waves, we'll be seeing it more than before. It can be hard to put down and going to time seems to be more prevalent in this edition so that's a factor to consider now, on both sides.

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3 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

So far...

Personally, I'm indifferent towards it at the moment. Once it comes to Hyperspace and has access to some of the new upgrades from the upcoming waves, we'll be seeing it more than before. It can be hard to put down and going to time seems to be more prevalent in this edition so that's a factor to consider now, on both sides.

Half points are also much more of a thing, and zero agility is a much bigger drawback with the shortage of action economy and passive mods and the nerf to evade.

Honestly, to me the 2.0 VCX seems... Pretty balanced, and honestly a very interesting design. Big, beefy brawler that has a turret but doesn't care about it that much. Focus is still on getting arc for a ship that has a little bit of a rough go of it, but can bring the hurt when it does as long as it plans well. Makes a juicy target that burns down fast so you have to shift gears quickly from offense to defense and back, but you can almost never do both. I really like it.

Unpopular opinion: Hera doesn't need a cost decrease. Ezra and some other named gunners/crew coming down and the nerf to beef will make her really good, and her ability is so strong that we don't want it to be ubiquitous anyway. All the others should be much cheaper though.

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13 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Half points are also much more of a thing, and zero agility is a much bigger drawback with the shortage of action economy and passive mods and the nerf to evade.

Honestly, to me the 2.0 VCX seems... Pretty balanced, and honestly a very interesting design. Big, beefy brawler that has a turret but doesn't care about it that much. Focus is still on getting arc for a ship that has a little bit of a rough go of it, but can bring the hurt when it does as long as it plans well. Makes a juicy target that burns down fast so you have to shift gears quickly from offense to defense and back, but you can almost never do both. I really like it.

Unpopular opinion: Hera doesn't need a cost decrease. Ezra and some other named gunners/crew coming down and the nerf to beef will make her really good, and her ability is so strong that we don't want it to be ubiquitous anyway. All the others should be much cheaper though.

As a Hera Ghost fan, I would actually agree she's pretty much costed right, and crew/other options coming down is all she really needs. The others could certainly stand to come down a bit though.. Kanan more like 6-8 down

And I know its not possible, but I think any of the VCX-100's would be much safer to run in a list with an extra shield or 2. 1st Ed may have gotten the 10/6 more right than 2nd's 10/4

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On 6/21/2019 at 10:29 PM, ClassicalMoser said:

Unrelated, but one of the other comments here made me think; what would it take to make Torpedoes and Missiles worth taking on the VCX, Decimator, YTs, etc.? My model brought most missiles down to 2-4 points which would be a great start, but the Ghost's primary is already 4 dice and the Decimator is such a points sink from the get-go...

If the VCX could fire torpedoes out of it's butt like 1st Edition, I'd slap them on that ship. But for the heavy turrets, it's almost worth taking cluster missiles if you have force crew to back the lock. Keep the turrets to the sides and use the missile as a psuedo front arc. But really, I'd rather just drop those points for either a bid or a crew/gunner/modification.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

If the VCX could fire torpedoes out of it's butt like 1st Edition, I'd slap them on that ship. But for the heavy turrets, it's almost worth taking cluster missiles if you have force crew to back the lock. Keep the turrets to the sides and use the missile as a psuedo front arc. But really, I'd rather just drop those points for either a bid or a crew/gunner/modification.

I mean sometimes? But when do you have the action free for a lock anyway? If you're Dash you only ever get one, and if you're Han, you usually want to boost and/or evade.

I'm definitely in the camp of make non-procket/barrage missiles crazy cheap (2 point ions, 3 point cluster, homing, 4 point concussion). They'd probably be seen more on A-Wings and TIE Bombers, and that double slot might be toolkit types of useful instead of a "barrage rockets" slot. You could use them on torrents and other filler without taking a major hit to your list.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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