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Quarrel

what's the right Kihraxz for me[TM]?

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Looking for a 4th ship, kind of acey-flankery, for this list:

  • Ketsu Onyo + Fearless & Maul (84)
  • Black Sun Soldier + Crack Shot (28)
  • Black Sun Soldier + Crack Shot (28)
  • 60 points left

Options I've thought about:

  • Talonbane Cobra + Predator & Shield Upgrade (58)
  • Talonbane Cobra + Predator & Afterburners (58)
  • Graz the Hunter + Cloaking Device, Predator & Afterburners (60)
  • Viktor Hel + Stealth Device, Predator & Shield Upgrade (59)
  • Old Teroch + Fearless (59 -- I know it's not a Kihraxz)
  • (or...hm. Sol Sixxa w/Dorsal, VTG and Proxies is only 60...)

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i like... Talonbane Cobra + Predator & Afterburners (58)

if ur running kestu, recommend using title. its very strong. can punish them for blocking you as well as being all-around useful. theyll not want to get caught in close and will avoid you giving u some control vs aces.

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45 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

i like... Talonbane Cobra + Predator & Afterburners (58)

if ur running kestu, recommend using title. its very strong. can punish them for blocking you as well as being all-around useful. theyll not want to get caught in close and will avoid you giving u some control vs aces.

Absolutely agree about adding the Title to Ketsu. Maul is nice but it requires you to take damage. With Perspective Co-pilot it really helps for both offense and defense. I ran this list a few weekends ago and it's a lot of fun and all three ships did some serious work:

Old T + Predator (58)

Talonbane Cobra + Fearless (53)

Ketsu + Fearless + PerCo + Shadowcaster (87)

TOTAL Squad Points: 198

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29 minutes ago, MUrunner20 said:

Absolutely agree about adding the Title to Ketsu. Maul is nice but it requires you to take damage. With Perspective Co-pilot it really helps for both offense and defense. I ran this list a few weekends ago and it's a lot of fun and all three ships did some serious work:

Old T + Predator (58)

Talonbane Cobra + Fearless (53)

Ketsu + Fearless + PerCo + Shadowcaster (87)

TOTAL Squad Points: 198

nice squad. ive also experimented with perc. co-pilot on Ketsu and really liked it. makes me want to add a corrdinating ship like Lando in escape shuttle but u really need the offense from those other ships to count. 3 red dice hits harder than 2 red dice and at close range Talonbane really shines... Fearless on him looks pretty good.

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2 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

if ur running kestu, recommend using title. its very strong. can punish them for blocking you

The title can't punish ships that block you since either A) you can't shoot them, or B) Ketsu tractored them away herself and adding another tractor token will do nothing.

I agree that the title is strong but it's slightly redundant with Ketsu's own ability and the points might be better spent elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, MUrunner20 said:

Maul is nice but it requires you to take damage.

Maul is there for his 1 normal Force. I do a lot of K-turning and getting blocked with Ketsu -- she flies a lot more directly than Asajj. Maul's occasional mid-round recharge is gravy.

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1 hour ago, Quarrel said:

The title can't punish ships that block you since either A) you can't shoot them, or B) Ketsu tractored them away herself and adding another tractor token will do nothing.

I agree that the title is strong but it's slightly redundant with Ketsu's own ability and the points might be better spent elsewhere.

ah ok. i got ketsu's ability muddled with the title. i guess i just like having both as the title gives u the ability to tag something with a tractor token thats at range 2-3 as long as u deal dmg to it.

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1 hour ago, Quarrel said:

The title can't punish ships that block you since either A) you can't shoot them, or B) Ketsu tractored them away herself and adding another tractor token will do nothing.

While you can’t punish those who block you, if/when her pilot ability triggers, you can then shoot them bc they are no longer touching you. And I have the title bc in this situation at Range 1 it’s likely to trigger and when TBC rolls 5 red dice against a ship with -2 agility it puts a major hurt on the opponent.

 

1 hour ago, Quarrel said:

I agree that the title is strong but it's slightly redundant with Ketsu's own ability and the points might be better spent elsewhere.

Absolutely, and I feel it’s also about play style. Maul is nice for sure and the added Force means you can always mod a dice and 1 point cheaper than PerCo + Title. I’ll try it the next time I fly this list.

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3 hours ago, MUrunner20 said:

and when TBC rolls 5 red dice against a ship with -2 agility it puts a major hurt on the opponent.

Tractor tokens don't stack defense penalties in second edition.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Quarrel said:

Old Teroch + Fearless (59 -- I know it's not a Kihraxz) 

It's not. But it is a really good option. Token suppression is a great trick, and with Angled Deflectors about to become a thing, it's worth remembering that Reinforce is also a 'green token'...

 

12 hours ago, Quarrel said:

Graz the Hunter + Cloaking Device, Predator & Afterburners (60)

If I was taking Graz, I'd switch out Predator/Afterburners for Outmanoeuvre to double down on his ability, and maybe electronic baffle. Burning off your shield to recover stress is an extreme response but it's cheap and a nice trick to have up your sleeve. Alternatively, cloak/outmanoeuvre is a nice 58 point build.

12 hours ago, Quarrel said:

Viktor Hel + Stealth Device, Predator & Shield Upgrade (59)

Aside from the stress effect, the value of a stealth device is directly proportional to your ability to avoid an attack entirely. Which means lurking at range 3 where you get bonus dice (which means you keep the stress effect even after losing the charge on the stealth device), which in turn means lining up bullseye shots is hard. Stealth Device and some sort of missile launcher feels like a better plan. Ion or Homing missiles might be nice.

Regardless, the correct answer is clearly @FTS Gecko's patented FIVE. CARTEL. MARAUDERS. 

Obviously you're 140 points short of being able to pick that option, so you might need to remove a few things from your squad first, such as 'the ships' and 'the upgrades'....

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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9 hours ago, Quarrel said:

Tractor tokens don't stack defense penalties in second edition.

Yes, you are correct. I misspoke on the stacking but I also tend to use tractor multiple ships if/when I tractor a ship out of the Shadowcaster’s firing arc. It’s happen multiple times when I’ve flown against swarms.

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16 hours ago, Quarrel said:

The title can't punish ships that block you since either A) you can't shoot them, or B) Ketsu tractored them away herself and adding another tractor token will do nothing.

I agree that the title is strong but it's slightly redundant with Ketsu's own ability and the points might be better spent elsewhere.

I found with the title I could get two tractor tokens out sometimes on two separate ships, or on a medium ship.

And tractoring at range two onto rock also helps. Oh and you can elect not to move the ship you tractor with her ability and when/if you apply the second token I think you can then move it, as a ship can only be "Tractored" once per round.

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7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Regardless, the correct answer is clearly @FTS Gecko's patented FIVE. CARTEL. MARAUDERS...

4-2 with the Fab Five at the Italian Open.  Shame the 2 came early on, though.  One of the losses was a close run thing, the other was a battering.

Still, not a bad result considering I haven't been able to play anywhere near as much as I'd like this year.  ☹️

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Oh, Talonbane, to be sure.

The someone similar list I've flown and might fly this weekend at a small tourney:

  • Ketsu (Fearless, Maul, Title)
  • Talonbane (Crack Shot, Hull, Shield)
  • Serissu (Crack Shot, Ion Cannon)
  • Bid 2

Serissu rerolls feel like they can contribute. Ketsu is certainly the fire-magnet first turn, and hopefully converting a few more evades on the opening seems good.  Talonbane is just great.  Meanwhile, I'll also recommend the title.  Putting a U-Wing (and isn't every Rebel list required by law to bring a U-Wing?) onto a rock is very punishing, since they often like to stall and stalling on an asteroid is extra bad.  Or just tractor two small-base folks.  Use your pilot ability on one, then ignore it.  Just getting an enemy ship out of the engagement for a round can be effective.  Meanwhile, with the rest of your list attacking Ketsu's target, if she can hit, you'll only really be giving up one attack against a reduced agility opponent.

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2 hours ago, Scum4Life said:

Oh and you can elect not to move the ship you tractor with her ability and when/if you apply the second token I think you can then move it, as a ship can only be "Tractored" once per round.

You can only choose to move a ship when it goes from "not enough tractor tokens" to "enough tractor tokens". You can't move a small ship when you raise it from 1 token to 2, regardless of whether it was moved earlier that round.

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my list

capt jostero + shield upgrade+hull upgrade+afterburners

sol sixxa+ dorsal turret+ havoc+ skilled bombardier+ proton bombs+proximity mines

2 jackku gunrunners

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22 minutes ago, crusaders said:

my list

capt jostero + shield upgrade+hull upgrade+afterburners

sol sixxa+ dorsal turret+ havoc+ skilled bombardier+ proton bombs+proximity mines

2 jackku gunrunners

What is Sol getting from Havoc? You don't have a Sensor upgrade listed and the other upgrades can all be taken on him without the title.

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Posted (edited)

what about something like... kavil/old teroch/talonbane/lando might be pretty solid. 3 init 5 and one init 4 pilots.

Old Teroch (56)    
    Predator (2)    
    
Ship total: 58  Half Points: 29  Threshold: 2    
    
Talonbane Cobra (50)    
    Predator (2)    
    Afterburners (6)    
    
Ship total: 58  Half Points: 29  Threshold: 3    
    
Kavil (43)    
    Trick Shot (2)    
    Dorsal Turret (2)    
    Veteran Turret Gunner (6)    
    
Ship total: 53  Half Points: 27  Threshold: 4    
    
Lando Calrissian (Scum) (Escape Craft) (29)    
    Tactical Officer (2)    
    
Ship total: 31  Half Points: 16  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 200    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v7!s=200!98:127,:;119:127,,,,,105:;85:133,137,,90,,,,:;93:,61,:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Edited by Da_Brown_Bomber

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21 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

What is Sol getting from Havoc? You don't have a Sensor upgrade listed and the other upgrades can all be taken on him without the title.

forgot trajectory sim

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1 minute ago, crusaders said:

forgot trajectory sim

Thought so :D. That build makes for a flexible, if expensive and very limited duration, bombing setup. Nothing like being able to toss bombs just about anywhere in range 1 aft (and have a fair bit of coverage range 2 front) of Sol. :)

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Posted (edited)

I tried two versions at my FLGS:

Version 1. Talonbane + Predator & Afterburners
vs. Nien Nunb & 3 Resistance A-wings

Talonbane did Talonbaney stuff: hang back until an opportunity arises for a R1. Keeping him at R3 until he could strike was key to dissuading attacks against him. That's tricky on a ship with no 1-straight and that can't boost out of arc unless it goes speed 3+ (which makes the Kihraxz's lack of a 3-hard double-damning). (Neither of those facts should surprise anyone who's used him.) My opponent was scared of potential tractoring and didn't navigate obstacles well. (I brought 3 asteroids, he brought 1 of each type.) Things went pretty much in my favor as I singled out A-wings for focus firing, but he did pull off the funky Nien + Pattern Analyzer + Black One + Static Discharge Vane combo, and rear turrets let the A-wings shoot Ketsu at R1 without giving her Fearless.

Version 2. Graz + Outmaneuver + Cloaking Device
vs. Wedge, 2 ARCs & a Z-95

This game was closer. My opponent brought 3 gas clouds and kept the asteroids spaced. I had trouble arranging a high-risk area and trouble baiting him into it. His was a jousting list, and he kept it in formation. I lost both my Zs without shots on the first real round of combat. However, decloaking and friendly tractoring, plus anticipating correctly, helped me navigate Graz around the flank. Two rounds of shooting Wedge in the side and back finished him when he finally let the threat of tractoring scare him and he broke formation too late. Then I tractored the Z into an obstacle crowd and out of combat for two rounds. I committed to k-turn jousting what was left, and eventually more mods + more dice pulled me ahead.
Fearless didn't kick off this game either. Neither did Outmaneuver, except vs. Wedge. Graz's extra dice did matter, even (especially!) when chasing rear-firing ships. That, plus Stupid Tractor Tricks, plus not being the obvious Kill Me First target that Talonbane/Fenn are, makes me want to play with him more.

Edited by Quarrel

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