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punkUser

I tested my dice...

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I clicked the link fully expecting to come back and post about shoddy methodology and small sample sizes. Instead I was delighted, excellent work indeed! I deffo feel that certainly once it comes to cut games a joint dice pool as you recommend is needed with solid evidence like this. Well done.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Max Teranous said:

I clicked the link fully expecting to come back and post about shoddy methodology and small sample sizes. Instead I was delighted, excellent work indeed! I deffo feel that certainly once it comes to cut games a joint dice pool as you recommend is needed with solid evidence like this. Well done.

Ditto. I'm in disbelief that the results are so stark.

Didn't Dion use a shared dice pool for streams already? Good for him!

Edited by Parakitor

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Wow! Amazing read!

I know that right now, 3d printed dice are not legal for competitive play as described in the rules, but I ask : would most people be okay with a player having such dice? Or is the potential to to create your own dice template with an advantage too much of a liability?

(as always, best solution is : share your die! No player can have an advantage if both players roll from the same set. Anecdotally, whenever I find my dice to roll too well, I always offer to my opponent that we either share mine or his to balance this.)

 

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3 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Ditto. I'm in disbelief that the results are so stark.

Didn't Dion use a shared dice pool fire streams already? Good for him!

Yup! Been doing a shared dice pool now for while but with more than 5 dice mostly for the convenience. I might consider making the pool smaller though after reading this.

 

43 minutes ago, punkUser said:

Great Work.

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7 minutes ago, DarthSempai said:

Wow! Amazing read!

I know that right now, 3d printed dice are not legal for competitive play as described in the rules, but I ask : would most people be okay with a player having such dice? Or is the potential to to create your own dice template with an advantage too much of a liability?

(as always, best solution is : share your die! No player can have an advantage if both players roll from the same set. Anecdotally, whenever I find my dice to roll too well, I always offer to my opponent that we either share mine or his to balance this.)

 

It would be insanely easy to weight 3d printed dice.

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Posted (edited)

It makes sense to go to a shared dice pool, since the once rare Regional+ event dice are now so prevalent to almost completely remove any "coolness" factor.  Locally, I think I see more of those grey dice on tables than standard.

Edited by gennataos

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I would love to see this test extended to the various prize dice. The newest black Hyperspace dice most of all just because I feel like most of them I have seen roll terribly. I know mine do at least lol.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, prauxim said:

So what you're saying is, Xwing Probability Calculator is trash? :D

I considered adding a mode where you could adjust your die probabilities but that was maybe a step too far ;):P

And yeah 3d printed dice can never be allowed - as noted it would be very easy to cheat. I mainly did it just to test the hypothesis that it is primarily the skewed shapes that are making them biased (which appears to be the case).

I really wanted to test some machined dice too but couldn't find a good set of D8's. Someone linked me these which actually look awesome and are pretty reasonably priced for testing a bunch at the sale price, but unfortunately they are out of stock :(
https://store.gravitydice.com/collections/all/products/d8-polyhedral-dice-rpg?variant=16357607079987 

Edited by punkUser

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, punkUser said:

I was honestly expecting a few dozen, maybe a hundred or so trials and instead I’m finding myself completely blown out of the water; this is amazing, thank you!

Edited by Innese

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9 minutes ago, punkUser said:

And yeah 3d printed dice can never be allowed - as noted it would be very easy to cheat.

I can see one way in which they could end up in game "legally", but that would be FFG selling them themselves. Though differentiating between real official FFG 3d printed dice and counterfeits could be an issue if that ever happens.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, punkUser said:

I considered adding a mode where you could adjust your die probabilities but that was maybe a step too far ;):P

And yeah 3d printed dice can never be allowed - as noted it would be very easy to cheat. I mainly did it just to test the hypothesis that it is primarily the skewed shapes that are making them biased (which appears to be the case).

I really wanted to test some machined dice too but couldn't find a good set of D8's. Someone linked me these which actually look awesome and are pretty reasonably priced for testing a bunch at the sale price, but unfortunately they are out of stock :(
https://store.gravitydice.com/collections/all/products/d8-polyhedral-dice-rpg?variant=16357607079987 

I have a hobby level CNC mill but dice are a PITA without investing a lot of time, work and/or money into specialized work-holding solutions.

Even if the dice are precisely machined, seems like they would be biased due to the material removed for the symbols?

Edited by prauxim

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8 minutes ago, prauxim said:

Even if the dice are precisely machined, seems like they would be biased due to the material removed for the symbols?

The data indicates pretty strongly that the removed material is at least an order of magnitude less impact... i.e. we're probably down into the 0.1% at that point. I intentionally 3d printed the dice with the removed material/symbols as well vs. using stickers/paint to test that, and the 3d printed dice seem to be much better than the FFG ones (I only tested 4, but 3/4 were "fair").

Machined ones should be a step better even than 3d printed ones as the latter can still have a bit of skew depending on the printer/settings/material. They're also lighter (at least with PLA) which isn't ideal for the "feel" of them, although it doesn't seem to affect the randomness negatively.

The casino dice are still the gold standard though - they don't mess around, as the results show :)

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First, this is awesome.  

Second, it doesn't look like casino dice are super expensive.  Sure, probably too expensive to put in a core set.  But wouldn't it be in FFG's best interests after seeing your research to create a "tournament" set of dice that are manufactured to the same accuracy as casino sets?

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2 minutes ago, dadocollin said:

First, this is awesome.  

Second, it doesn't look like casino dice are super expensive.  Sure, probably too expensive to put in a core set.  But wouldn't it be in FFG's best interests after seeing your research to create a "tournament" set of dice that are manufactured to the same accuracy as casino sets?

They could just sort existing ones. That what they do in competitive 22LR, the difference between $10/$15/$20 box of Eley match ammo is just weight sorting of the components to different allowances

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