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Unit34

Rebel Leia vs Resistance Leia

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I have a question about Rebel Leia and Resistance Leia.

I play rebels and have used Leia in an ARC and double E-wing list. I like the way it functions as Leia works well with the E-wings. When triggered Rebel Leia reduces the difficulty of maneuvers of all friendly ships for that turn. I've always understood that to mean that when the E-wings pull a red maneuver that turn, it becomes a white maneuver, or white maneuvers become blue. Now, I've used Elusive on the E-wings sometimes, and it works well, but I've understood the interaction of Rebel Leia to cancel the effects of Elusive - (After fully executing a red maneuver, regain a charge). I'm not performing a red maneuver if Rebel Leia changes them to white, so I don't get both benefits; if Leia triggers, Elusive can't gain a charge that turn. That's fine, fair and I've never had an issue with it.

Until Resistance Leia in the new Resistance Transport article was revealed. Resistance Leia allows you to spend a recurring force charge to reduce the difficulty of a maneuver for a single friendly ship. Makes sense so far. Similar ability, but can be used every turn on a single target instead of all friendly ships every 3 turns. However the article specifically indicates that Resistance Leia's ability still allows the benefits of Cova Nell's pilot ability (While you defend or perform a primary attack, if your revealed maneuver is red, roll 1 additional die) without gaining stress from the red maneuver. That to me indicates that even though Resistance Leia reduces the difficulty of the maneuver, it's colour designation remains the same, just with a reduced difficulty and she does not actually change a red maneuver into a white maneuver.

As the wording of both Leia crew cards says "reduce the difficulty" my question then is, does the article explanation of Resistance Leia indicate that Rebel Leia works the same way? Specifically the interaction between Rebel Leia + Elusive, this would mean a ship would perform a "reduced difficulty" red maneuver and regain a charge without gaining stress; The red maneuver difficulty is reduced but retains it's colour designation for the purposes of Elusive.

I hope I'm clear in laying out my thinking.

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Cova states “if your revealed maneuver is red, roll 1 additional die” while Elusive regen triggers “after fully executing a red maneuver”.

Cova/Leia works because you reveal red, even though the maneuver becomes white.

Elusive/Leia does not work because the completed maneuver is white.

Different triggers, different results. :)

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Some extra clarification: Neither Leia works like R2-A6, who literally changes the dial:

“After you reveal your dial, you may set your dial to a maneuver of the same bearing of a speed 1 higher or lower.”

Leias change the maneuvers, not the dials.

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Yea, I guess you're right. That makes sense.

I think it could have been worded better. But oh well.

For the record, I didn't want the Rebel Leia/Elusive combo to work. I think if you're using both, it's a good thing that you need to factor in which benefit you want and don't get both automatically.

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31 minutes ago, Unit34 said:

When triggered Rebel Leia reduces the difficulty of maneuvers of all friendly ships for that turn. I've always understood that to mean that when the E-wings pull a red maneuver that turn, it becomes a white maneuver, or white maneuvers become blue.

One more note for Posterity, Rebel Leia only reduces the difficulty of red maneuvers so she can never make a white maneuver blue.

â¢Leia Organa

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1 minute ago, joeshmoe554 said:

One more note for Posterity, Rebel Leia only reduces the difficulty of red maneuvers so she can never make a white maneuver blue.

â¢Leia Organa

Yep - I knew that. My error there. I'm typing at work and keep getting distracted.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

In the round when Leia is active, Hera has no red manoeuvres on her dial.

Which runs contrary, and is the exact point, of the conflict with what the article says about Resistance Leia.

Cova’s ability should NOT trigger according to this logic, right?

Nevermind, wording is different. Resistance Leia actually occurs AFTER the dial is flipped. Rebel Leia is before. 

Edited by JBFancourt

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

In the round when Leia is active, Hera has no red manoeuvres on her dial.

phase*

@JBFancourt: When Hera checks for red maneuvers, she can't find any, because Leia is reducing their difficulty; they're all white now.

A revealed maneuver is literally just the maneuver that's on your revealed dial. Resistance Leia's ability doesn't physically alter your dial, it just reduces the difficulty while you execute that maneuver. So when Cova goes back later to check, the maneuver on her revealed dial is still red.

Edited by Maui.

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@JoeSchmoe A 'revealed maneuver' is a specific thing.

Quote

 

• Some abilities reference a ship’s revealed maneuver outside of that ship’s activation. A ship’s revealed maneuver is the maneuver selected on its dial, which remains faceup next to that ship’s ship card until the next Planning Phase.

◊ If a ship’s dial is not revealed, or it was not assigned a dial that round, that ship does not have a revealed maneuver.

 

Leia doesn't physically alter your dial. If Hera reveals a red maneuver while Leia is active, that red maneuver (along with all other red maneuvers on Hera's dial) is treated as white until the end of the activation phase.

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18 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

So Rebel Leia doesn't change Hera's "revealed maneuver", but she does change the maneuver that Hera reveals?

Functionally, Leia puts white-out over the red buits of Hera's dial in the round she is active.

 

In the same way as an E Wing with R4 Astromech simply doesn't have red turns, it has white/blue ones.

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5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Functionally, Leia puts white-out over the red buits of Hera's dial in the round she is active. 

Functionally, Leia puts white-out over the red maneuvers on Hera's dial in the PHASE she is active. She doesn't last the entire round.

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So Rebel Leia alters your revealed maneuver for the phase, and Resistance Leia alters your revealed maneuver for an indeterminate period of time (I suppose from after revealing the dial, through executing the maneuver).  So, if you were playing a fun mixed faction format and used Rebel Leia to make Cova Nell's red maneuver into a white maneuver then Quickdraw flew through an mine and took a shot during the Activation phase, Cova would only get her 1 green die since her "revealed maneuver" is still white due to Rebel Leia still being active?

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On 6/17/2019 at 10:27 PM, thespaceinvader said:

Functionally, Leia puts white-out over the red buits of Hera's dial in the round she is active.

 

In the same way as an E Wing with R4 Astromech simply doesn't have red turns, it has white/blue ones.

So Leia active, and an E-wing with R4. 

Are the 1 turns blue or white? 

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On 6/17/2019 at 10:27 PM, thespaceinvader said:

Functionally, Leia puts white-out over the red buits of Hera's dial in the round she is active.

 

In the same way as an E Wing with R4 Astromech simply doesn't have red turns, it has white/blue ones.

So Leia active with an E-wing with R4. Are the 1 turns blue or white? 

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2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

White.  There are no red turns for Leia to act on, on an E Wing with R4, and she only decreases the difficulty of red moves.

What defines the order of application? Why not Leia before R4? 

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1 hour ago, uncugly said:

What defines the order of application? Why not Leia before R4? 

Both Leia’s specify when they take effect: “Star of activation” or “when a friendly ship reveals its dial.”

R4 does not have a timing window, so it does not go into the ability queue: it is always in effect. 

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So with the new rules reference.... I think Rebel Leia now synergizes with Elusive.

In the FAQ section. Page 28.

Q: When an effect checks the difficulty of your revealed
maneuver (such as Cova Nell’s pilot ability), do any effects
that alter the difficulty of your maneuvers (such as R4
Astromech [󲁔] or Leia Organa [Resistance, 󲁒 󲁒] apply?

A: No. The difficulty of a revealed maneuver matches its printed color. The
speed and bearing of a revealed maneuver also match their printed value
and type, respectively.

So Leia reduces the difficulty negating the stress of the red maneuver, but the red maneuver remains red for the check on Elusive. Also mean Elusive synergizes with R4 in the same way - preventing stress on red moves but regaining the charge on Elusive.

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