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Da_Brown_Bomber

What did 1.0 do better than 2.0?

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11 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

All right, but apart from the Palob, the 4-L0M (Pilot), Seevor, Quadjumpers, Ketsu, Old Teroch, Latts Razzi (pilot), Moral Eval, Emon, Torkil Mux, 4-L0M (crew), Zuckuss (crew), Boba (crew), Tobias Beckett, Asajj Ventress, and the Shadow Caster title, what disruption abilities does scum really have?!

*cries in scum hyperspace*

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20 minutes ago, tampermagnitude said:

*cries in scum hyperspace*

Honestly, and this is coming from a guy who took palob to Coruscant...there isn't a non-zero level of representation that I want to see palob, 4-L0M, and quadjumpers at.  If they were never meta-viable ever again, I'd consider it an absolute win.  Their disruption abilities are just quintissentially "not x-wing" to me.

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11 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

All right, but apart from the Palob, the 4-L0M (Pilot), Seevor, Quadjumpers, Ketsu, Old Teroch, Latts Razzi (pilot), Moral Eval, Emon, Torkil Mux, 4-L0M (crew), Zuckuss (crew), Boba (crew), Tobias Beckett, Asajj Ventress, and the Shadow Caster title, what disruption abilities does scum really have?!

Fair enough.  Although, strictly speaking, I wasn't talking about general disruption, which Scum still does quite well, but more about "Just let me pop my Glitterstim and then go crazy on you" shenanigans - before Expertise, no one else could do that.  Timewalk Asajj was a pretty fun boat at the time.  Inertial Dampeners gave Scum some neat "Surprise!  You thought you were going to arc dodge but now you've got a range 1 primary coming at you" options, which seem a little more commonplace now with more ships having access to the stationary maneuver.  And Ventress with a Slicer on board was great fun - just slide that damage right on past the shields.  Take that, tank!  These are the glory days that I'm talking about.  The Illicit slot seems more like a modification slot than anything, now. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Azrapse said:

Nobody misses the missions that used to be packed with large ships?

I never played any of them. :P

 

However, I strongly believe there ought to be an X-Wing equivalent to "The Correllian Conflict" from Armada which has a few new cards, but mostly missions and campaigns.  If they need to pack in repaint ships, so be it, but a paper-only box is fine with me.

I'd love a series of them.  Naboo to Coruscant (Prequel Trilogy).  Lothal to Scarif (Rebels, Rogue One). Yavin to Endor (Original Trilogy).  Jakku to... wherever they wind up in IX (Sequel Trilogy).  Probably a separate Scum-themed one, with Solo, ESB Bounty Hunters, and Cad Bane and Asajj and the other Clone Wars rogues.

Edited by theBitterFig

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Azrapse said:

Nobody misses the missions that used to be packed with large ships?

Definitely. I used to love the cinematic play stuff. Not least because it used to put very different demands on your squad to a 100-points-in-a-phone-booth "first one to die loses" engagement*

The default ability to (for example) lock obstacles, and the addition of non-obstacle-non-ship 'objects' and 'reposition' as default concepts opens up a lot of options, as does strain, charges and jamming as default mechanics.

7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

However, I strongly believe there ought to be an X-Wing equivalent to "The Correllian Conflict" which has a few new cards, but mostly missions and campaigns.  If they need to pack in repaint ships, so be it, but a paper-only box is fine with me.

I'd love a series of them.  Naboo to Coruscant (Prequel Trilogy).  Lothal to Scarif (Rebels, Rogue One). Yavin to Endor (Original Trilogy).  Jakku to... wherever they wind up in IX (Sequel Trilogy).  Probably a separate Scum-themed one, with Solo, ESB Bounty Hunters, and Cad Bane and Asajj and the other Clone Wars rogues.

I'd be well up for this. Throwing in scenarios, pilot cards (& supporting cardboard), upgrades, quick builds and maybe some alternate terrain offers a lot of options.

E.g. Dawn of the Rebellion - blue squadron pilots, Hera/X-wing, Ezra/Y-wing, Vult Skerris/Defender, Defender Elite title/config (not sure), maybe rock pinnacles/trees 'atmospheric' obstacles

Equally, if you're just throwing in pilot cards and base inserts, it'd be a logical place to put (for example) the Shuttle Tyridium title and Chewbacca/Lambda, or Commander Malarus in a T-70 X-wing with a first order only version of Black One.

 

 

* I ran several evenings of missions at my LGS. In each one, someone would turn up with the current that squad off the internet, and proceed to get hammered because it relied on a trick which the scenario either disallowed or undermined. A good example was Preystalker - an 'ambush' scenario where the ambusher starts behind the ambushee, and each ambushee receives a stress token one at a time before the first movement phase. Bad for a normal squad but painful as buggery for someone who thinks Attani Mindlink is the answer to everything and avoids a need for tactics "because people on the internet said so".

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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1 minute ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'd be well up for this. Throwing in scenarios, pilot cards (& supporting cardboard), upgrades, quick builds and maybe some alternate terrain offers a lot of options.

E.g. Dawn of the Rebellion - blue squadron pilots, Hera/X-wing, Ezra/Y-wing, Vult Skerris/Defender, Defender Elite title/config (not sure), maybe rock pinnacles/trees 'atmospheric' obstacles

Equally, if you're just throwing in pilot cards and base inserts, it'd be a logical place to put (for example) the Shuttle Tyridium title and Chewbacca/Lambda, or Commander Malarus in a T-70 X-wing with a first order only version of Black One.

Exactly.

Even if some of this stuff was quick-build only, it'd still open up a lot of options.

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12 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

Dash, TLT, Jumpmasters and even Dengar were all ships where manouvers mattered despite having turrets.

You have some good points, but I have to respectfully disagree with this point, specifically Dash and TLT.  Sure, they had a donut hole, but it really wasn’t difficult to deal with.  I played Dash/Miranda A LOT in 1.0, and before the Ghost brought us Kanan and “Ranbow Dash,” it was 1 bank, barrel roll, focus.  Occasionally a boost if someone was closer.

And Miranda didn’t care at all.  If someone got within range 1, they would just eat a 4 dice primary turret.

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1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

Fair enough.  Although, strictly speaking, I wasn't talking about general disruption, which Scum still does quite well, but more about "Just let me pop my Glitterstim and then go crazy on you"

Hyper-frikkin' dice mods...🤔

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

Timewalk Asajj was a pretty fun boat at the time.

Double-hyper-frikkin' dice mods🤔🤔

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

Inertial Dampeners gave Scum some neat "Surprise!  You thought you were going to arc dodge but now you've got a range 1 primary coming at you" options, 

Perfect-information repositioning 🤔🤔🤔

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

And Ventress with a Slicer on board was great fun - just slide that damage right on past the shields.  Take that, tank!

Auto-damage 🤔🤔🤔 through shields 🤔🤔🤔🤔

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

 These are the glory days that I'm talking about.

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤨🤔🤨🤨

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9 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Hyper-frikkin' dice mods...🤔

Double-hyper-frikkin' dice mods🤔🤔

Perfect-information repositioning 🤔🤔🤔

Auto-damage 🤔🤔🤔 through shields 🤔🤔🤔🤔

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤨🤔🤨🤨

Obviously not a fan ;)

 

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On passive and hyper modifications:

I genuinely don't understand how unstoppable effects are not universally recognized as worse for the game than stoppable effects. Of course there is a middle ground with limited use upgrades. But Expertise, 1.0 Lonewolf, 1.0 Predator, 1.0 FCS, K4 for free locks, GuidanceChips, several autoblaster attacks with accuracy corrector, and so on and so on.

They were all strictly worse for the game than current options!

The only explanation I have is that OP, forgiving and easy stuff is fun. It's why people cheat in single player games, because it is fun to kick ***. And in the Starwars IP, chances are high that this coincides with genuinely favorite ships, allowing us to turn two blind eyes to the problem.

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Posted (edited)

Mainly people haven't recognized that hyper mods only serve to make the occasional game swinging unmodded shot FAR more impactful

For example, Corran Horn getting natural evades basically would win him the game. Miranda could become invincible with the occasional string of natural evades. TLTs were almost never fully modified, and they could spike for undeserved damage. For imperial stuff and guaranteed evades from Palp and x7s, your first shot was guaranteed worthless (unless your first shot whiffed or the opponent got lucky...thrn your next shot was worthless) and then you were at the mercy of green dice with the fewer rolls you had remaining. Combine this with the spikey nature of unmodded TLTs...

The more rolls you have to make, the closer you'll get to the predicated probability of results . 

1st Ed basically skewed towards a smaller number of unavoidable spike rolls determining the game amidst a see of mods and turrets without counter play 

2nd Ed still has annoying luck spikes, because we still don't make many rolls overall, but since you don't need to break through guaranteed defenses that void some of the few rolls you have, you actually have better odds of doing stuff!

(Armada dice still far better, though)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2019 at 8:24 PM, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Your turn. What did 1.0 do better than 2.0?

Dare I say simplicity?

No scaling cost cards that scale on Initiative, or is it the number of green dice, or is it hull, or base size? Will it scale based on how many you already have of that card? Maybe based on where in the alphabet the third letter of the pilot name falls?

Strain is unesessary and complicated compared to other mechanics, but I guess they wanted to add as many new things so people would be more incentivized to buy into the new factions. I'm curious when people who don't buy into the new factions will officially be able to pick up some gas clouds from FFG.

Fewer factions is better than more factions. Resistance, and especially FO, just feel like weaker Rebel and Empire with fewer choices, respectively. I don't think that will ever change because FFG won't be making as many ships for either of these factions.

Missiles were better in 1.0, so were cannons.

Scum was more scummy in 1.0. Now the scummiest faction is CIS.

For all the things FFG said about making 2.0 more accessible and user friendly for new players and people who might want to start playing, it really isn't.

Edited by Skitch_

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How is strain complicated? It's super easy

Also no, there's nothing simplistic about a standard Nym build needing like 8 cards. The slapdash nature of title fixes, not to mention having to hunt them down in packs beside the base ship's, owing to a lack of an app was objectively more complicated than some silly app

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Skitch_ said:

Dare I say simplicity? 

 

15 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

How is strain complicated? It's super easy

Also no, there's nothing simplistic about a standard Nym build needing like 8 cards. The slapdash nature of title fixes, not to mention having to hunt them down in packs beside the base ship's, owing to a lack of an app was objectively more complicated than some silly app

I can maybe add another perspective. My SO basically stopped playing in the last year or 1,5 of 1.0 when it all got "too complicated". That's why 5 strikers (or 4 with WhisperSloane) was perfect for her in 2.0, just ships and no or only a few upgrades.

For her, 2.0 is a step in the right direction, but it's not there yet. There are still too many things, too many words everywhere that make it less fun. And for the record, she placed better in every tournament that we went together.

Edited by GreenDragoon
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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, ForceSensitive said:

On the subject of hyper-mods, Paul won his first two (?) Worlds before those environments existed didn't he?

Yes, but what are you getting at?

e: that it was possible to be consistently good?

Edited by GreenDragoon

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5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

That's why 5 strikers was perfect for her in 2.0...And for the record, she placed better in every tournament that we went together.

Tip of the hat to anyone flying the beauty that is the TIE/sk "striker" swarm. Shield upgrades, Afterburners, or Predator?

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6 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Tip of the hat to anyone flying the beauty that is the TIE/sk "striker" swarm. Shield upgrades, Afterburners, or Predator?

Shields. Nothing to remember, no bullseye to chase, no intended afterburner and then realizing that's this one used it already. Pure Beer&Pretzels X-wing.

The problem is that lack of interest in your opponent's list puts you at a severe disadvantage if there are important combos. And they absolutely exist in 2.0, though not as often as late 1.0, and that means tournaments and (many but not all) competitive lists are no option.

Just two cents on simplicity.

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