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DakkaDakka12

About the Hammerhead...

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So the Hammerhead greatly interests me aesthetically and I enjoyed light cruiser gameplay in battlefleet gothic by GW

 

cr-90 seems to occupy the role of a high speed flanker/harasser

What makes a Hammerhead different from a cr90? What advantage does it have compared to other cheap small bases.

 

are the task force titles worth it?

 

I wish to run 3HH’s, is it better to run 3 of the same type?(3 torps?) or better to mix(2 scouts and a torp?)

 

Leia commander seems to synergize well, as does a pelta with the shield fleet command.

 

As a sidenote, are swarms of activations good or bad? I have heard first/last is a big advantage, but i have also heard good things about 2 ship lists.

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Did some one say hammer time....

Name: Untitled Fleet
Faction: Rebel
Commander: Garm Bel Iblis

Assault: 
Defense: 
Navigation:

Pelta Assault Ship (56)
• Garm Bel Iblis (25)
• Ahsoka Tano (2)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• External Racks (3)
• Phoenix Home (3)
= 95 Points

Hammerhead Scout Corvette (41)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
• Task Force Organa (1)
= 48 Points

Hammerhead Scout Corvette (41)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
• Task Force Organa (1)
= 48 Points

Hammerhead Scout Corvette (41)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
• Task Force Organa (1)
= 48 Points

Hammerhead Scout Corvette (41)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
• Task Force Organa (1)
= 48 Points

Hammerhead Scout Corvette (41)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
• Task Force Organa (1)
= 48 Points

Squadrons:
• Shara Bey (17)
• 4 x A-wing Squadron (44)
= 61 Points

Total Points: 396

 

This is something I want to try 

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HH's can be very effective when used wisely. They will go BOOM! if anything sneezes at them more than once. Riekeen is also really good with them - theyre cheap and disposable, and you will get an extra shot off or block a ship from escaping. Sato can also make them meaner, but then you need fighter support. 

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26 minutes ago, eliteone said:

HH's can be very effective when used wisely. They will go BOOM! if anything sneezes at them more than once. Riekeen is also really good with them - theyre cheap and disposable, and you will get an extra shot off or block a ship from escaping. Sato can also make them meaner, but then you need fighter support. 

You can use cracken and TFA to make them surprisingly durable though.

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15 minutes ago, axe238 said:

I wish their was "Task Force Raddus" titles with the ability to push a ship when it rams!

It would be cool if they could push a ship like the movie, they must have really powerful engines.

 

@ExplosiveTooka I am surprised about cracken because I thought speed 2 was the speed you wanted to keep them at for the better turning.

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My favorite Hammerhead fleet:

Maybe Sato Doesn't Suck Anymore? 
Author: shmitty

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 394/400  

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
-  Commander Sato  ( 32  points) 
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points) 
-  Projection Experts  ( 6  points) 
-  Shields to Maximum!  ( 6  points)

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
 Task Force Antilles  ( 3  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points)

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
 Task Force Antilles  ( 3  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points)

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
 Task Force Antilles  ( 3  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points)

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
 Task Force Antilles  ( 3  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Assault Concussion Missiles  ( 7  points)

1 Shara Bey ( 17 points) 
1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 
1 Han Solo ( 26 points) 
1 Hera Syndulla ( 28 points) 
 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Divad said:

Why Garm?

The beautiful thing about Germ is he takes away the stress of getting the dials right and leaving your ships open to naving for the first 2 rounds/however long it takes to get to combat, allowing you to take full advantage to the maneuvers you can do.

 

With the pelta Garm it works well as Asoka will change one of your tokens to a CF token so you will always be able to trigger IFF allowing the ship to use it's dial to it full potential. Naving where you need to go, dropping more dice with a CF. If you change it around a bit you can add ET and really make it move 

 

On the corvettes you give them a nav token at the start deploy at speed 3 Nav into position for the first few rounds open up with a CF command and use the token to slow you down or speed you up if you have already dropped to get you out of danger if you slowed already. Nav is IMO the most important command you can give a hammer head. With the lack of movement at speed 3 it really needs it. On round 5 you can give them a nav to escape or repair token paired with a dial and flip a bad crit.

Even tho garm only gives the hammer head 1 token if it's the right token it can change the game

 

And he is only 5 pts

Edited by X Wing Nut

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14 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

I had a HH roll 11 freaking damage on its first attack against me (can’t recall all the upgrades/admiral but deffo ex- racks) in a game once! 😳

14 is the best they could do. The stars have to line up just right tho :P

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19 hours ago, Divad said:

Why Garm?

Because always Garm, all the time. End of story.

With that list I imagine deploying at high speed and starting the attacks turn 2 will mean you're nicely tokened up with Garm while many opponents will still be starting up their Comms Net farms. I've found Garm to be most effective if you're fighting as early in the game as possible.

I mean, more effective than Garm if you're not attacking early.  That measurement is in no way related to how he compares to other commanders 😂 But apparently of all the hills I could have chosen to die on, I've picked Garm, so I'll support anyone else using him too!

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On 6/15/2019 at 12:56 PM, X Wing Nut said:

The beautiful thing about Germ is he takes away the stress of getting the dials right and leaving your ships open to naving for the first 2 rounds/however long it takes to get to combat, allowing you to take full advantage to the maneuvers you can do.

 

 With the pelta Garm it works well as Asoka will change one of your tokens to a CF token so you will always be able to trigger IFF allowing the ship to use it's dial to it full potential. Naving where you need to go, dropping more dice with a CF. If you change it around a bit you can add ET and really make it move 

 

On the corvettes you give them a nav token at the start deploy at speed 3 Nav into position for the first few rounds open up with a CF command and use the token to slow you down or speed you up if you have already dropped to get you out of danger if you slowed already. Nav is IMO the most important command you can give a hammer head. With the lack of movement at speed 3 it really needs it. On round 5 you can give them a nav to escape or repair token paired with a dial and flip a bad crit.

Even tho garm only gives the hammer head 1 token if it's the right token it can change the game

 

And he is only 5 pts

Trust me, I like Garm more then most, but this list doesn't utilize him much at all.

Generally there isn't much dial pressure on 1 Command Ships. And you can usually get away with banking a Nav command on either the 1st or second turn. The Pelta can also bank a token turn 1, spend it turn 2, then bank another turn 2 as it should lag a bit behind the rest of the fleet and not need the dial. Turn 3 can use Hondo, and turn 4 can discard the card. By then the HH's should have overshot their targets and probably not be in range of their other arcs.

Dodonna seems better even without inbuilt synergy, for 5 pts cheaper (could probably drop an A-wing, and Phoenix home title to add in a comms net flotilla). Or for 5 points more Mon Mothma or Rieekan adds some value.

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10 hours ago, Divad said:

Trust me, I like Garm more then most, but this list doesn't utilize him much at all.

Generally there isn't much dial pressure on 1 Command Ships. And you can usually get away with banking a Nav command on either the 1st or second turn. The Pelta can also bank a token turn 1, spend it turn 2, then bank another turn 2 as it should lag a bit behind the rest of the fleet and not need the dial. Turn 3 can use Hondo, and turn 4 can discard the card. By then the HH's should have overshot their targets and probably not be in range of their other arcs.

Dodonna seems better even without inbuilt synergy, for 5 pts cheaper (could probably drop an A-wing, and Phoenix home title to add in a comms net flotilla). Or for 5 points more Mon Mothma or Rieekan adds some value.

Wouldn’t leia be pretty strong? A engineering command can actually heal hull with leia.

 

and the extra token would probably help torpedo HH’s line up better i think?

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18 hours ago, Divad said:

Trust me, I like Garm more then most, but this list doesn't utilize him much at all.

Generally there isn't much dial pressure on 1 Command Ships. And you can usually get away with banking a Nav command on either the 1st or second turn. The Pelta can also bank a token turn 1, spend it turn 2, then bank another turn 2 as it should lag a bit behind the rest of the fleet and not need the dial. Turn 3 can use Hondo, and turn 4 can discard the card. By then the HH's should have overshot their targets and probably not be in range of their other arcs.

Dodonna seems better even without inbuilt synergy, for 5 pts cheaper (could probably drop an A-wing, and Phoenix home title to add in a comms net flotilla). Or for 5 points more Mon Mothma or Rieekan adds some value.

Not a fan of Hondo as in this list he will only give you 1 chance to use IFF and can also give your opponent a leg up also. Dodonna is Cheaper but, at least in my Area, unless you can trigger a special crit Dodonna does not get a lot of use for 5 points Garm really gives you more Flexibility. Dropping a A wing for a flotilla or Mon Mothma or Rieekan is a option but again in my area Shara and 4 A Wing is the right mix to counter the SQ balls I see.    

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Posted (edited)

The Hammerhead is a great ship, best run as a pair or more in my experience. For just 43 points (Torpedo Corvette [36] + Ordnance Experts [4] + External Racks [3]) you have a ship that hits way above its point value. Six dice at close range from the front arc, four of them black dice with rerolls, can devastate any ship that isn't ready for it. And that's without considering any relevant Admiral bonuses you might have.

The fact that you can pretty easily fit two of them in a list is just extra bonus. CR-90's are faster and better flankers, but the Hammerheads are just durable enough to charge headfirst in, fire their missiles, and get out. Even if you lose one, you're really not giving up that many points, just an activation.

I've also learned that the Garel's Honor title tends to get more mileage than the Task Force titles do. At least when only running two Hammerheads.

Edited by Derpzilla88

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So, I'm the guy who used to run 7 hammerheads with Leia on a CR-90 with Jaina's Light and TRC, and a GR75 with QS and Slicer Tools. The HHs all had ExRax and TFO. They hit like a truck. 

And I disagree about them being fragile. It wasn't until Gunnery Teams started showing up in my local meta that I really started having trouble with them. I would usually lose one or two on the approach, but then trade for something big, like an ISD. I actually find them to be more robust than the CR-90. Both ships will die at long range to 8 damage and 1 accuracy. If it is 7 damage with a crit and one accuracy, the CR-90 can still die with a Structural Damage, but not the Hammerhead (because of Contain). If there are three accuracies, the CR90 dies to 6 damage, but the Hammerhead requires 7. The only case that is better for the CR-90 is two accuracies and at least one die a double damage — then the CR-90 can weather 7 damage results, whereas the Hammerhead can weather only 6 (though crits don't make this any worse).

Leia is pretty awesome on them, but don't bother with Engineering. Their commands should pretty much always be either Navigate or Concentrate Fire. Getting rid of one card is a waste, because once you have damage, that ship is probably going to die the next round regardless. That said, I did find Engineering of some use on the GR75.

A hammerhead with ExRax, Leia, TFO, and a ConFire dial is a beast. If you get four or five of those things onto something big it can be huge. The biggest problem that I had was against heavy squadron lists, and a last-first from Pryce was brutal. I had played around with some small squadrons, but it was never enough to warrant just putting more hammerheads in.

I've been toying with the idea of dusting them off and trying them with Mon Mothma instead of Leia, but my original goal of the fleet was to make Leia good, not the hammerheads. The hammerheads were just a way to do that.

Anyway, they are a ton of fun. :)

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On 6/15/2019 at 4:56 AM, X Wing Nut said:

The beautiful thing about Germ is he takes away the stress of getting the dials right and leaving your ships open to naving for the first 2 rounds/however long it takes to get to combat, allowing you to take full advantage to the maneuvers you can do.

 

With the pelta Garm it works well as Asoka will change one of your tokens to a CF token so you will always be able to trigger IFF allowing the ship to use it's dial to it full potential. Naving where you need to go, dropping more dice with a CF. If you change it around a bit you can add ET and really make it move 

 

On the corvettes you give them a nav token at the start deploy at speed 3 Nav into position for the first few rounds open up with a CF command and use the token to slow you down or speed you up if you have already dropped to get you out of danger if you slowed already. Nav is IMO the most important command you can give a hammer head. With the lack of movement at speed 3 it really needs it. On round 5 you can give them a nav to escape or repair token paired with a dial and flip a bad crit.

Even tho garm only gives the hammer head 1 token if it's the right token it can change the game

 

And he is only 5 pts

Garm on 1 command ships is really wasted. Cracken, Rieekan, Madine, Leia or even Sato would be way better for a MSU list.

 

 

On 6/14/2019 at 8:01 AM, DakkaDakka12 said:

So the Hammerhead greatly interests me aesthetically and I enjoyed light cruiser gameplay in battlefleet gothic by GW

cr-90 seems to occupy the role of a high speed flanker/harasser
What makes a Hammerhead different from a cr90? What advantage does it have compared to other cheap small bases.

The biggest difference between the Hammerhead and the CR90 (beside the speed) are the upgrade slots. The cost of both is about the same (39+44 vs. 36+41).
The CR90 has Support and Defense while the Hammerhead has Gunnery and Offence. And the Hammerhead Torpedo has an Ordnace slot.
This Gunnery Slot, Offence Slot and Ordnace Slot gives the Torpedo Hammerhead some really good damage potential, that a CR90 does not have. But the Hammerhead Torpedo need to get closer to the opponent for this damage.
And this Gunnery + Offence are needed for the boarding cards Cham Syndula is really fun, against a large ship).

Basically you use the CR90 if you want to stay out of range (or if you use Ackbar), want a really fast ship, need a lifeboat (Engine Tech CR90 is insane) or want the Ion Cannon slot for Heavy Ion Emplacements.
The Hammerhead is used if you want really high damage (External Racks + Ordnance Experts) or if you want to play around with the Task Force titels. Organa is a nice and cheap reroll, Antilles is a bit expensive, but can last your Hammerhead a bit longer (depend on the ships that your opponent has). Additional the Hammerhead Torpedo is one of the best drops with Profundity. 5 black dice (front and side) + 1 red + 1 blue, with rerolls and Garel Titel for a good ram can take down some ships and hurt everything else with this activation.

If you want to do a real overkill, you use Torin Farr and Rapid Launch Bays with Nym in the Hammerhead (together with External Racks, Ordnance Experts, Garel's Honor). With Concentrate Fire commando and a Squadron token from Hondo, you can deal some extrem damage (as long as you roll the blue crit with Nym).
Sure, 81 points is insane for this, but the fun is worth it, when you are able to oneshot every small ship and even a Quasar.

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22 hours ago, Tokra said:

Garm on 1 command ships is really wasted. Cracken, Rieekan, Madine, Leia or even Sato would be way better for a MSU list.

True but Garm works in this list for the why I would fly it and the tactics I would use. 

there is no real rule that says this Admiral must go with this ship, except Konstantine, he goes with no fleet :P, its all about what tactics you wish to employ with your list and admiral that matter. the hope would be that my opponent would thing its a waist not knowing I have a larger plan ;) 

 

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, X Wing Nut said:

True but Garm works in this list for the why I would fly it and the tactics I would use. 

there is no real rule that says this Admiral must go with this ship, except Konstantine, he goes with no fleet :P, its all about what tactics you wish to employ with your list and admiral that matter. the hope would be that my opponent would thing its a waist not knowing I have a larger plan ;) 

 

Mothma and no evades, Cracken and no small/mediums, Sloane and squadless, Raddus with 1 non-flotilla, and Motti and the SSD are also all cases where the commander does nothing, which might as well be a rule.

Not to be that guy.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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14 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Mothma and evades, Cracken and small/mediums, Sloane and squadless, Raddus with 1 non-flotilla, and Motti and the SSD are also all cases where the commander does nothing, which might as well be a rule.

Not to be that guy.

I would put Motti on a SSD in a 1200 point battle :P

 

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