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CaptainRocket

Now you too can pre-measure movement *without* pre-measuring movement!

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Tired of forgetting just how far Vader can reach out and Force Choke you? Anxious about stumbling into the face of some Fleet Trooper's riot gun?Want to be able to pre-measure all threat radii like the top tier Worlds contenders, but just can't manage to remember what all the movements distances are in range ruler units?Anxious about marking your range ruler more than just to, "indicate ownership as long as the function of the component is not compromised."?

HAVE I GOT A DEAL FOR YOU!!!

It turns out FFG has already cleverly marked all the movement ranges for you on the ruler, if you only know which greebles to look at! 
(In case you forget which is which, you can print out and carry this handy refference sheet.)

RNHk9OI.jpg

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55 minutes ago, Squark said:

Huh. Does it work for larger bases?

Oh good question!
I don't have the rulers in front of me, but it seems that there are marking for just about every inch, and it seems that bases plus movement rulers despite being defined in mm end up as effectively inch based, so it may...

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Reposting my previously worked out movement distances. I should add the tank...

Base size: Speed 1| Speed 2 |Speed 3

27mm:  4.06 | 6.16 | 8.36

50mm:  4.97 | 7.07 | 9.27

70mm:  5.76 | 7.86 | 10.06

100mm: 6.94 | 9.04 | 11.24

All movements worked out in inches using measurements found on the forum.

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2 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Reposting my previously worked out movement distances. I should add the tank...

Base size: Speed 1| Speed 2 |Speed 3

27mm:  4.06 | 6.16 | 8.36

50mm:  4.97 | 7.07 | 9.27

70mm:  5.76 | 7.86 | 10.06

100mm: 6.94 | 9.04 | 11.24

All movements worked out in inches using measurements found on the forum.

Did you confirm these with actual pieces? A 27mm base making a speed two move actually travels just under 6" in reality (try it and see).

I think you haven't accounted for the curved "cut-outs" in the movement tools.

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6 hours ago, colki said:

Did you confirm these with actual pieces? A 27mm base making a speed two move actually travels just under 6" in reality (try it and see).

I think you haven't accounted for the curved "cut-outs" in the movement tools.

I might give it a try. Like I say in the post, it's based on measurements from the forums for the movement tools and the bases. So I don't know where on the tool the measurements were taken.

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While certainly nifty, one would think this kind of measuring is counter to the spirit of "no pre-measuring." I mean, for a personal game I feel like if someone's gonna be using a range finder to see how far he can move I'd just tell 'em to pre-measure with the move tool; for tournament play I'd think this would suggest a need to either remove pre-measuring restrictions or double-down and say no pre-measuring period. Just my two-cents.

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9 hours ago, colki said:

Did you confirm these with actual pieces? A 27mm base making a speed two move actually travels just under 6" in reality (try it and see).

I think you haven't accounted for the curved "cut-outs" in the movement tools.

I can confirm my measurements are all taken with actual tools and unit bases.

There are two factors that make th move slightly less than what you calculated. First, is the cut out in the tool. Second is the angle of the tool and the base. Both contribute to slight overlap which makes thebmovements be just very slightly under the 6" etc marks.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Castlecruncher said:

While certainly nifty, one would think this kind of measuring is counter to the spirit of "no pre-measuring." I mean, for a personal game I feel like if someone's gonna be using a range finder to see how far he can move I'd just tell 'em to pre-measure with the move tool; for tournament play I'd think this would suggest a need to either remove pre-measuring restrictions or double-down and say no pre-measuring period. Just my two-cents.

Yeah I'm not sure why FFG would include ranges of movements on the ruler but also say "no pre measure of move tool" unless the theory is that it's faster of folks are limited to just one tool.

Regardless the info is out there and on the tool so I think it's best of everyone knows it.

Edited by CaptainRocket

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2 hours ago, CaptainRocket said:

I can confirm my measurements are all taken with actual tools and unit bases.

There are two factors that make th move slightly less than what you calculated. First, is the cut out in the tool. Second is the angle of the tool and the base. Both contribute to slight overlap which makes thebmovements be just very slightly under the 6" etc marks.

Do you have the measurements handy for just the movement tools so I can update the chart (mm prefered, but can work with any units)? Worst case I'll try to find some time to make some measurements. 

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3 hours ago, Castlecruncher said:

While certainly nifty, one would think this kind of measuring is counter to the spirit of "no pre-measuring."

There is no such spirit.  The only rule is that you can't put a move tool against a unit leader unless you are moving that unit.

 

Don't read things into that and then put them on everyone else. 

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24 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

There is no such spirit.  The only rule is that you can't put a move tool against a unit leader unless you are moving that unit.

 

Don't read things into that and then put them on everyone else. 

Yeah... I think maybe that comes from x-wing or armada.  There is no rule against using the range ruler to pre-measure, and indeed you should do so as often as possible.

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Painting the range templates really helps within the game as well.

I painted the markings on the range ruler in different colour codes so that I don't get confused when my little head is allready steaming during the game.

I have highlighted the markings for all standard moves Speed 1 to 3 for trooper bases and for Speed 2 moves of medium vehicle bases.

The markings are on the range ruler for a reason and it is certainly no coincidence that the markings are almost exactly matching the standard moves.

I am pretty confident that is legal.

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20 hours ago, Squark said:

Huh. Does it work for larger bases?

Okay I went back and checked and no it doesn't really. It's a bit tricky because it's unclear where you would start measuring from. Range distance or notch distance? I tried a few of both at different base sizes and while I found a couple useful measures (speed 2 move of medium size is basically 7 1/2"s which is distinctively marked), there's not the comprehensive pattern that you see with the trooper bases and markings. 🤷‍♀️

4 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Do you have the measurements handy for just the movement tools so I can update the chart (mm prefered, but can work with any units)? Worst case I'll try to find some time to make some measurements. 

My calipers and finer gradation metal rulers are still somewhere in boxes from my move, so I'm not really confident in estimating the distance given the notch and the tool sloped ends, sorry! 

I did the above analysis on a cutting mat marked in inches down to 1/8ths. I'm only confident on it because of how precisely it lines up with the ruler markings... but I wouldn't want to be quoted on the imperial or metric length of those ruler markings! 😹

4 hours ago, Orkimedes said:

This is a great tool.  Do you mind if I put that pic on my site?  Will make sure to credit you.

Please go ahead! I think it's best if this is shared far and wide and generally available. I know some folks can memorize this stuff... 😭

3 hours ago, M.Mustermann said:

The markings are on the range ruler for a reason and it is certainly no coincidence that the markings are almost exactly matching the standard moves.

The truth is out there~ 👽

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7 hours ago, CaptainRocket said:

Yeah I'm not sure why FFG would include ranges of movements on the ruler but also say no pre measure of move tool unless the theory is that it's faster of folks are limited to just one tool.

Regardless the info is out there and on the tool so I think it's best of everyone knows it.

Yeah, it seems kinda weird to me. I get restricting pre-measuring--it moves the game along, and can add some fun challenges like when you're pretty darn sure you can make it to that barricade and end up just short. On the other hand, allowing for one type of pre-measuring and not another seems... Odd? Like I imagine it would be weird to have a referee watching a game and calling a guy out for measuring if his leader could make it to cover with the movement tool, but then be blithely fine when someone does the same but with a nominally different tool of measurement. I don't know, maybe it's different in actual play.

5 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

There is no such spirit.  The only rule is that you can't put a move tool against a unit leader unless you are moving that unit.

 

Don't read things into that and then put them on everyone else. 

I beg your pardon?

As I understood it, CaptainRocket was showing a nifty way of using the range-tool to measure relative movement distances, because you can't press the movement tool against the leader without committing to a move, but you can press the range tool to a unit at any time--perhaps I misunderstood that, in which case I apologize for the confusion.

In any case, I was just pointing out that allowing for players to use a range-finder but not a movement-tool at any point in the game seems counter-intuitive if people can just memorize the distances of the disallowed tool on the allowed tool--at that point, it would make more sense to me to either allow or disallow both types of pre-measuring, so that one can't be used to substitute the other.

I wasn't putting my ideas onto anyone. I was expressing my opinion of what I thought to be an oversight in the rules of the game, and then offering that opinion for general consumption--I even specified "That's just my two cents," implying this is just my opinion and that others may well disagree.

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1 hour ago, Castlecruncher said:

As I understood it, CaptainRocket was showing a nifty way of using the range-tool to measure relative movement distances, because you can't press the movement tool against the leader without committing to a move, but you can press the range tool to a unit at any time--perhaps I misunderstood that, in which case I apologize for the confusion.

That's not the rule. The only restriction on measuring with the movement tools is that it has to be with the active unit. You don't have to commit to a move.

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9 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

That's not the rule. The only restriction on measuring with the movement tools is that it has to be with the active unit. You don't have to commit to a move.

Spot on. You *are* commiting to activating that unit, but that's it.

The chart above is great (thank you CaptainRocket!), but still not equivalent to placing the movement tool unless you have a straight line to your destination. That's why it works really well for units like Boba and Luke with Jump :)

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18 hours ago, CaptainRocket said:

I can confirm my measurements are all taken with actual tools and unit bases.

There are two factors that make th move slightly less than what you calculated. First, is the cut out in the tool. Second is the angle of the tool and the base. Both contribute to slight overlap which makes thebmovements be just very slightly under the 6" etc marks.

Hey Rocket, sorry, this comment was for Caimhuel, not your chart. The very small difference I mention wouldn't really be visible on your (excellent) image.

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16 hours ago, Castlecruncher said:

I beg your pardon?

In any case, I was just pointing out that allowing for players to use a range-finder but not a movement-tool at any point in the game seems counter-intuitive if people can just memorize the distances of the disallowed tool on the allowed tool--at that point, it would make more sense to me to either allow or disallow both types of pre-measuring, so that one can't be used to substitute the other.

I wasn't putting my ideas onto anyone. I was expressing my opinion of what I thought to be an oversight in the rules of the game, and then offering that opinion for general consumption--I even specified "That's just my two cents," implying this is just my opinion and that others may well disagree.

Yes, but some months ago there were more than a few people who believed that you were not allowed to pre-measure at all or that you couldn't use two tools or that once you moved a unit down the tool (and the tool was still left in place) you were not allowed to change your mind.  There was a lot of talk about RAI and what was the spirit of the rule and whether anything not addressed specifically was permitted or forbidden. 

When you talk about the spirit of a rule you're taking your opinion about a rule and then appealing to it in order to influence other people to adopt the rule.  This isn't inherently bad, but it can be a cudgel.  Sometimes people talk about the spirit of a rule and then imply, or just outright state that people who don't follow the spirit are somehow unethical or that their motives are otherwise suspect.  That's when it becomes a problem so I was stepping into the statement before it got there either by you or anyone else.  

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

That's not the rule. The only restriction on measuring with the movement tools is that it has to be with the active unit. You don't have to commit to a move.

From the sound of it, then, I may have misinterpreted the rule--apologies. In that case, what would the chart CaptainRocket made be used for? Is there a place where knowing the length of movements on the range-finder is particularly useful beyond just knowing how far a character can shoot after a move or the like?

3 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

Yes, but some months ago there were more than a few people who believed that you were not allowed to pre-measure at all or that you couldn't use two tools or that once you moved a unit down the tool (and the tool was still left in place) you were not allowed to change your mind.  There was a lot of talk about RAI and what was the spirit of the rule and whether anything not addressed specifically was permitted or forbidden. 

When you talk about the spirit of a rule you're taking your opinion about a rule and then appealing to it in order to influence other people to adopt the rule.  This isn't inherently bad, but it can be a cudgel.  Sometimes people talk about the spirit of a rule and then imply, or just outright state that people who don't follow the spirit are somehow unethical or that their motives are otherwise suspect.  That's when it becomes a problem so I was stepping into the statement before it got there either by you or anyone else.  

Well that's all well and good, but I wasn't at all a part of that conversation and so your response came across as rather hostile. I suppose I could have used different language, but honestly I was just saying it seemed counter-intuitive to use one measuring tool to get around the disallowed-used of another measuring tool (which is apparently not the case, though maybe I've just gotten it all utterly confused at this point). Honestly, though, I hardly feel that saying "the spirit of the rule" translates to "everyone must keel over to obey my interpretation of matters," and whoever was supposedly doing so would seem a tad silly in my book.

Regardless, I suppose it's a moot point--apologies again for confusion and such.

Edited by Castlecruncher

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3 hours ago, Castlecruncher said:

From the sound of it, then, I may have misinterpreted the rule--apologies. In that case, what would the chart CaptainRocket made be used for? Is there a place where knowing the length of movements on the range-finder is particularly useful beyond just knowing how far a character can shoot after a move or the like?

It can be useful in estimating/planning multiple moves ahead, or estimating the move distances of multiple units before you commit to activating one. You can't use the movement tool to tell you how far 2 movements will get you, but you can use the range tool to estimate it. So for example, you can use the markings to check exactly how far your snowtroopers can shoot with 2 moves plus Steady; or you can approximate how far your stormtroopers can move because a speed-2 move is slightly less than range 1.

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