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Hazoku

Dead of Night To expensive!!!

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Posted (edited)

30 USD  = 30€ in europe are you kidding? 

4 characters
 2 New Scenarios

about the info in the stream : "Double the size of ever encounter decks" (that means  more than 420 cards)
guys the cards are recicled from the LCG game reusing the same ilustrations...  

i'm not going to buy anything else is expensive for the little content, I do not intend to accept this abusive policy anymore, it is really bad to be greedy like FFG is doing...
what could be good lovecraft games you've spoiled with your abusive expansions and trimmed content to resell later ...
Users are not stupid. enough is enough and stop laughs of the people.

Edited by Hazoku

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I believe it's a matter of opinion as well. For me replayability and more choices are key in most games. This box seems to improve the replayability and give us more player options of the game a lot in my opinion.

Double size of the encounter decks are a lot new cards, thus adding much replayability for me. New Scenarios obviously adds replayability as well. More investigators equals more choices for the individual players and a lot of new combinations of investigator teams.

Reusing artwork is a smart move in my opinion. I actually like that I can identify the card by the art from a different game, makes the different Lovecraft themed games more connected to eachother.  I also believe the price would be even higher if every game had original artwork done for the same thing.

But it's all a matter of opinion. 30 USD is not cheap, but I personally find it reasonable and about the price I'd expect for this kind of expansion.

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It's more or less standard pricing for a small box expansion. Just for comparison: it's the same pricing of a Mansions of Madness small box exp that comes with 1/10 of the printed content coming with this small box.

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6 hours ago, Jarema said:

Reusing artwork in Arkham Games happens again and again. It is matter of personal opinion if you like it or not

It's also not bad artwork, and deserves to reappear in most cases. It serves the job, and what you are paying for is the work that goes into the game and the costs to print it. The work may or may not include paying artists, but it definitely includes designers that create all of those cards, and regardless of WHAT you print on those cards, you still have to pay for the materials to actually print them. 

The only way print cost could be limited without giving us fewer cards, probably, is if they printed the whole thing in black/white.

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4 hours ago, pixcalcis said:

  I happily pay 15 bucks for 60 cards of the Arkham lcg and one new scenario.  30 bucks sounds fantastic for this

Agreed.  I'm keen to add more variety to the base game.

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6 hours ago, pixcalcis said:

  I happily pay 15 bucks for 60 cards of the Arkham lcg and one new scenario.  30 bucks sounds fantastic for this

so are you agree for example pay 60$ (60€) the bix box expansions with the same cards like the small box?? (they are just adding new mini board or new tiles and double the prices just for that...)  really a piece of cardboard doubles the price of the box?

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I don't see it as a piece of cardboard, rather there's probably a lot of work happening to bring us a mini board, new tiles, cards, investigators, scenarios etc. Most often in the big box expansion they introduce new game mechanics, which I  guess must be balanced with the rest of the game and require extensive testing Before release. Which for me equals replayability and fun.

Personally I view it as paying for the design process that leads up to the cardboard. That in turn improves the game and my fun, and as it is a hobby I can decide if and when I want more of a game. Same goes for the Arkham LCG, 15 USD for a small plastic container with a few cards may sound steep. But I pay for the game design and the hours upon hours of enjoyment the game will provide, rather than seeing it as paying for the cards themselves.

But it's a matter of opinion.

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Maybe I am in the minority here, but I was actually happy to hear that this is only 30 bucks, when they announced the price. And I think it's just the right kind of expansion in that it greatly expands the current card pool and adds some new investigators and scenarios, without requiring cumbersome sideboards or tons of new token types.

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I don't wish to "Pile on" here, so I'll approach this from my own perspective alone.

For myself, $30-ish USD, does not seem unreasonable here--given the box design. My real quip, is that the economics of marketing in today's' amazingly prolific range of hobby games, makes it less attractive to make boxes/ containers that fit the contents. that is to say, that the push to establish a foot print on the shelves of retailers, in an effort to stand out and be noticed by consumers, is high. It may be, that this frequent disparity between the size of the box and the amount of content, can lead to feeling like we are purchasing as much air as game. And while I find it disappointing that FFG is particularly guilty of this, they are by no means operating in a vacuum--other publishers do this too.

Now I don't have any working knowledge of what the difference might be, in price, were the packaging to be more size appropriate, but I'd be surprised if that does not play into the equation. I do, however, feel that this has a meaningful affect on our perceptions of value, as consumers.

Far more of an impact on the MSRP, is the target profit margin on a given item. Before we can begin to know that, we'd need to first understand how much a given company budgets for the project, including; payroll, art, materials cost, warehousing, shipping, taxes, and so on, not to mention the impact of online retail, and whatever in-house decisions are made in terms of profit margin of a given product vs. the longevity of the core property when properly supported. Without those numbers, it's nearly impossible to know what FFG's expectations are for profit margin on an expansion like this (in the context of a $30 price point). I also think it's fair that FFG would expect to more than break even on their investment. 

As consumers then, it's up to us to decide what the actual "Value" of a product is on a personal level. From the after market prices on hard to find items, it's clear that there are those out there that would likely pay much more than $30 bucks for the right expansion to a game. Anyone who has ever researched the cost of the Arkham Horror dice sets, will know this all too well.

So in the end, I feel it's less about whether it's possible to argue that a company is being greedy, and becomes, with a little self-reflection, a matter of what we as gamers and consumers are willing to live with, how much enjoyment we expect to get out of a particular product, and then what we'd be willing to pay someone else to provide that for us.

I'm quite certain, that were I to cobble together the components of the Dead of Night expansion, not to mention the time it would take to play-test and balance it, collect the art, and so on, then have it printed by a third party printing service, I would spend more, possibly a lot more, than $30 dollars for my trouble. So, in that light, Yeah, I'll drop the cash on DoT, because I want to flesh out my core game.

For others, it may not be as cut and dry, and I respect that difference of opinion. These are hobby games, and as such, hardly worthy of getting stressed over things that are not, and will never be, within our control. Instead we make thoughtful decisions about what makes sense and what we can live with--choosing not to financially support a product that we don't believe in is absolutely a reasonable choice in my opinion.

 

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Posted (edited)

^Well said. Theoretically, there is an 'objective' value to every game, but ultimately it's each gamer's subjective value of that game/expansion that requires inspection. We'll never know the profit margins, but realistically we don't need to in order to come to terms with whether or not something is 'worth' purchasing.

Edited by Soakman

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Posted (edited)
the fanboys pay anything and FFG know that. Why other boardgames with more content the price is similar to the Arkham Games,star wars games and Lord of the rings... 
Arkham games they do not have copyright... and you are paying the same as a copyrighted game.
 
 
Edited by Hazoku

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But this true for most hobbies. Fans of just about anything are willing to pay more than something might objectively be worth.

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As others have said, what we find reasonable cost wise and are willing to pay for stuff is entirely subjective. 

I would point out that I recently had a look at kill team from citadel games as I played 40k years ago. With some snazzy thousand sons terminators being a recent release I looked at the shop and checked what I needed to get active. Core rules at £25...😂 

Elites rules at £25. Box set with board and some terrain £40-£80 depending on what flavour. Actual box set with the terminators and a third pamphlet of rules £40. Gtf games workshop. 

Ffg may be greedy as you say, they may make an absolute fortune in profits from expansion like this. But it could be worse..... 

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7 hours ago, k7e9 said:

But this true for most hobbies. Fans of just about anything are willing to pay more than something might objectively be worth.

There would be no hobby games or any luxury items if this weren't the case. There would be no industry at all. The company has to make money or there is no possibility to be a company any longer or create new material.

Of course they're making money. That's the point of a business. And if they squeeze too hard, it'll backfire. I don't think this is that though.

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Yeah, there's been a lot of talking about this mostly everywhere in the last few years. At some point, when MoM 2nd was released, a guy on BGG posted that 100 bucks for 4 evenings of fun were too much, and another one answered "when I go to the movies with the wife, we grab a bite to eat, two tickets for the show, and we pay a babysitter to stay home with the two kids, and we blow 120 in a single evening..."

So, it's a question of perspective, and also as Soakman said, value and cost are a different thing. Starve three days and see a burger for sale at 40 dollars. You're gonna get it.

Comparing LotR / SW and Mythos isn't fair. We need to compare the number of copies these game sell. Because if SW sells 10 times Arkham, then it means that the fixed costs (tied to development of the game and production of the physical copy) are divided over 10 times more copies in the SW case, and thus the cost of the license is absorbed to the point that the profit margin for the lines could be comparable. Do we have these data? No.

Then, the only question we need to ask yourself is whether we're ok or not to pay 30 to cash 2 scenarios and double the cards in the game. The answer is entirely up to you / to your wallet / to your interest in the line (and there's no right or wrong answer).

Is FFG playing cheap? Yes, they are dropping the number of cards / components in their games, they are dropping quality on the boxes, and they are slightly dropping quality on components (my 3rd edition copy already has some wear and tear whereas my 2nd edition copy survived a lot more), BUT they are mantaining the prices constant over time. Looks like a marketing choice they did. You can respect that or not (again, entirely your decision).

I know I'm gonna get this one because for me it's a worthy investment, and I'm confident the two new scenarios will be a blast to play, but that's just me.

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And putting value into perspective, doubling the deck sizes alone is going to give the game a lot more life for me, so I'm fine with it and will also likely buy it even though 3rd edition doesn't hit my table as often as the LCG. And, it's got 2 of my partner's favorite investigators (Diana AND Kate!). 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/12/2019 at 9:59 PM, Hazoku said:

so are you agree for example pay 60$ (60€) the bix box expansions with the same cards like the small box?? (they are just adding new mini board or new tiles and double the prices just for that...)  really a piece of cardboard doubles the price of the box?


Have they announced what will be in the big box expansions yet?  I highly doubt the only difference compared to the small box is that they will have tiles or a board in them. The bigger boxes typically have more of most things than the small boxes do.  8 characters instead of 4, possibly 3 or 4 scenarios instead of 2, an increased number of items and enemies, etc.  

So yes, if they put out a big box expansion and charge 60 bucks, and the only difference between it and a small box expansion is that there will be a mini board or some tiles for a board in it, I would not be happy.   This is not typically how they operate though, so I am unsure why we are assuming they are now though.

 

I may be misinterpreting what you are asking though. If so, I apologize.
 

Edited by pixcalcis

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Posted (edited)
On 6/14/2019 at 4:18 PM, Julia said:

Yeah, there's been a lot of talking about this mostly everywhere in the last few years. At some point, when MoM 2nd was released, a guy on BGG posted that 100 bucks for 4 evenings of fun were too much, and another one answered "when I go to the movies with the wife, we grab a bite to eat, two tickets for the show, and we pay a babysitter to stay home with the two kids, and we blow 120 in a single evening..."

LMAO
movie + drink + popcorn for 2  = 50$ , nanny = 4 hours maybe 40$ , (that bite to eat ) 30$ Mcdonals maybe?? = 120$????

And yes for me MoM 2nd is expensive to win 100€ i need 4 days of work is a expensive product for 4 misions and is not very replayable the game... the cinema in my country is like 10€ and half price sometimes.

Edited by Hazoku

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10 hours ago, Hazoku said:


And yes for me MoM 2nd is expensive to win 100€ i need 4 days of work is a expensive product for 4 misions and is not very replayable the game... the cinema in my country is like 10€ and half price sometimes.

Doesn't every game have some repetition or play out somewhat linear to some degree? Even games that don't have a story have the same rule set. Sometimes it's about how you change your style by using different strategies. That being said, MoM has some very different variations in the scenarios. The story might have some similar events, but who hasn't re-read their favorite books or watched a movie again to see what they missed.

I have different groups of friends that I've played AH3 with and each time things have played a little differently. I'm looking forward to the expansion and what may be coming down the line in the future. As many have said it's personal choice how we choose to look at it. Good luck with yours!

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I actually think the price is fine for beefing the size of every deck.

2 scenarios and 4 new characters adds a lot of replayability and also don't forget, artwork isn't cheap. FFG's AH series has some of the finest art i've ever seen in a board/card game.

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