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Darth Wrath

2 Jedi and 2 Torrent Strategy / Streams

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Posted (edited)

I've been running the following list and struggling for some reason. I feel like I'm just missing something about it. I know people have been successful with it, and I love it on paper, but man am I having problems getting flying it right.

Does anyone have any tips or know of any good streams of games with a similar list?

Anakin Skywalker (60)    
    R2 Astromech (4)    
    Delta-7B (18)    
    
Ship total: 82  Half Points: 41  Threshold: 3    
    
Mace Windu (46)    
    R2 Astromech (4)    
    Delta-7B (16)    
    
Ship total: 66  Half Points: 33  Threshold: 3    
    
Gold Squadron Trooper (25)    
Ship total: 25  Half Points: 13  Threshold: 3    
    
Gold Squadron Trooper (25)    
Ship total: 25  Half Points: 13  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 198    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v6!s=200!273:,2,201,:;314:,2,201,:;321:,:;321:,:&sn=Ani%2C Mace and the Arcs&obs=

Edited by Darth Wrath

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Darth Wrath said:

Yes, standard 75-minute games.

It hasnt been on stream a ton. Should be some S&V Aces League Vassal Logs of it. Not sure where those are, maybe someone has a link.

Some tips: 

  • Pretty sure the Win Condition with this list is almost always running to time with the Jedi + Regen. Primarily with Anakin but also with Mace depending on what you destroy first. 
  • Mace & Anakin do a huge amount of damage at Range 1. Remember Anakins probably your win condition, so maybe dont be super duper aggressive with him unless its safe. 
  • You genuinely dont want to reposition more than you "need" to. The list gradually becomes worse as you over leverage boost/roll.  Even at 3 force, those Jedi start to feel like T65s kinda quickly if you dont have the mods. 
  • Defending against multiple shots also kinda drains your force super quick...so its 100% ok to use the Focus Action and save it for defense to help manage force tokens.
  • The torrents want and definitely can land sick blocks. If your not landing blocks with these your probably not getting the full 50 pts you paid for them. But dont over chase that 2 dice shots are good to. 
  • All 4 ships have evade tokens, its ok to use them if your in the mix with Mace etc. 
  • Also on the regen thing, you dont have to 5k turn and keep fighting a joust with a limited force pool, if you lost some shields consider disengaging recharge a shield or two and your force. Sorta depends on the board state though, you want to be able to regen back to full pts at the right time.

Also I have no idea what im talking about...just ask @Brunas

Edited by Boom Owl

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Posted (edited)

Just to add a few high level points to think about when approaching different matchups:

1) You're not a jousting list per se, so as @Brunas indicates above, don't straight on joust efficiency lists. The V19's are there to take the brunt of the attack (and get blocks if they live) so they can just fly in, but realize you are (ideally) trading them for some damage and a double flank.

2) I've seen people fly both Jedi together but in the majority of matchups I think that's a mistake. You almost always want them on each flank so that the enemies can't bully both of them at once. The advantage of Jedi is that unlike other aces they both aren't going to immediatly evaporate if a ship looks at them, and they can punish on a flank with trivial double mods and range 1 shots fairly easily. You want to maximize both of these effects by keeping them spread wide.

3) If you're moving after stuff the game is a whole lot easier. Just dial safe moves and approach from behind asteroids, then leverage single/double repo as you would with another ace to ensure your opponent always made the wrong choice.

4) If you're moving before things the game is trickier, but the movement options available to the Jedi are excellent, and unless you screw up they take damage gradually. It's a tougher game with way more thinking but most games are still winnable if you outplay your opponent.

5) I'm personally willing to be a bit more aggressive with Anakin earlier in the game than others because of the regen. Trading a few damage on a key target early and then having your opponents think they need to continue "focus firing" Anakin as he disappears across the board and regens is often a pretty easy way to win the game if your opponent doesn't have a good plan :)

6) As mentioned a lot of games go to time, particularly losses. It's pretty rare to actually lose Anakin unless you need to get overly aggressive near the end of the game to score points. Thus it largely becomes a game of half points on Anakin and half or losing Mace vs. whatever you can score.

It's a fun list though with a bunch of tricks though, and most matchups are winnable even if you aren't particularly favored.

Edited by punkUser

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Like he said above split your Jedi. I have been flying this but with R2 on Anakin instead of the R4s. The Torrents are sneaky still tend to put damage through because people focus on the Jedi so much. This list struggles against Imperial aces that have a bid in my experience pretty strong against everything else. Like is stated above most games will go to time. 

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I like the gas clouds. This is personal preference. I like to try and get my opponent turned towards one of my Jedi as I hide behind the gas cloud and they waist shots only to be flanked by the other Jedi and picked at by the Torrents. Again this is personal preference and you need to figure out what works for your style of play.

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Curious if folks feel like Padme will replace the 2x V-19's once she drops (hopefully) next month?

 

Seems like her ability will help the Jedi on defense while also doing about as much damage and she can stack focus/evade herself. I assume she'll be less than 50 too for a bigger bid.

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1 minute ago, FriendofYoda said:

Curious if folks feel like Padme will replace the 2x V-19's once she drops (hopefully) next month?

Everything depends on price. Padme or an N1 with a torpedo or something is absolutely a reasonable replacement for some matchups. That said, Jedi aren't really efficient when jousting/tanking, so adding a "support unit" for the Jedi that can't itself take a bunch of shots might be the wrong direction. Of course Padme is hardly made of glass, but likely still takes fewer shots than 2x V19s.

That said, I flew the list with Wolffe instead of the V19's in the last system open and I enjoyed that variant more. Overall my impression is that the V19s are still better vs. beef as they do take more damage, but I definitely preferred Wolffe vs. aces and 2-3 ship lists as he is a legitimate threat himself and can't just be ignored. Some imperial ace lists can mostly ignore the V19s while they bully Jedi which can definitely be a problem.

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1 minute ago, FriendofYoda said:

Curious if folks feel like Padme will replace the 2x V-19's once she drops (hopefully) next month?

 

Seems like her ability will help the Jedi on defense while also doing about as much damage and she can stack focus/evade herself. I assume she'll be less than 50 too for a bigger bid.

Depends on the points update honestly. Torrents are a 25 point WORKHORSE! It will be hard to replace 2 of those with 1 ship even with Padme's ability.

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2 minutes ago, punkUser said:

That said, I flew the list with Wolffe instead of the V19's in the last system open and I enjoyed that variant more. Overall my impression is that the V19s are still better vs. beef as they do take more damage, but I definitely preferred Wolffe vs. aces and 2-3 ship lists as he is a legitimate threat himself and can't just be ignored. Some imperial ace lists can mostly ignore the V19s while they bully Jedi which can definitely be a problem.

Were you flying Anakin and Mace with him? Just curious I have been wanting to try a variation of that but I dropped to Obi-Wan to fit Palpatine on Wolfee. Don't know if it will be worth it but ya know passive mods on everyone is nice.

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3 minutes ago, punkUser said:

Everything depends on price. Padme or an N1 with a torpedo or something is absolutely a reasonable replacement for some matchups. That said, Jedi aren't really efficient when jousting/tanking, so adding a "support unit" for the Jedi that can't itself take a bunch of shots might be the wrong direction. Of course Padme is hardly made of glass, but likely still takes fewer shots than 2x V19s.

That said, I flew the list with Wolffe instead of the V19's in the last system open and I enjoyed that variant more. Overall my impression is that the V19s are still better vs. beef as they do take more damage, but I definitely preferred Wolffe vs. aces and 2-3 ship lists as he is a legitimate threat himself and can't just be ignored. Some imperial ace lists can mostly ignore the V19s while they bully Jedi which can definitely be a problem.

I thought about Wolffe with CCC but decided I like having 4 arcs more than 1 ARC. 😁

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36 minutes ago, bamhvac said:

I like the gas clouds. This is personal preference. I like to try and get my opponent turned towards one of my Jedi as I hide behind the gas cloud and they waist shots only to be flanked by the other Jedi and picked at by the Torrents. Again this is personal preference and you need to figure out what works for your style of play.

It seems like gas clouds are less ideal in part because of how much they hinder your Torrents. You're not relying on them as your main source of damage, but giving your opponent a guaranteed evade result on obstructed shots doesn't really help them, either.

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3 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

It seems like gas clouds are less ideal in part because of how much they hinder your Torrents. You're not relying on them as your main source of damage, but giving your opponent a guaranteed evade result on obstructed shots doesn't really help them, either.

Say I jam up the middle towards a cloud with my torrents. Opponent has decided to joust my torrents(for whatever reason, this has happened) through a gas cloud but I have approached in a way that I am using the gas clouds to keep my torrents alive so that next turn I just cruise through that cloud for the block and now my Jedi are flanking behind blocked ships that didn't have actions. It's all in how you use the obstacles.  In a recent HT I faced off against beef and used a gas cloud in the way I originally described above. I lined up Mace behind a cloud while my opponent was slow rolling I was moving in with mace(still behind the cloud), he took 4 shots at mace range 2 and took 1 shield. Targeted Cassian, Anakin took and obstructed shot, Mace took an obstructed shot, 2 torrents plugged him for 2 unobstructed shots and  I took 6 off Cassian that turn. Next turn he was dead before he had a chance to shoot. Can they help your opponents? Yes. Can they help you? Yep! I don't think most people know how to use them to their advantage.

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You're bringing big rocks because:

 

1. they punish people for getting out of position and restrict options for how to deal with jedi behind/beside you

2. jedi absolutely do not care about rocks at all - you can fine tuned off a rock no problem, so you can pull some maneuvers inside the middle of the board that make any other ace jealous

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3 hours ago, FriendofYoda said:

Curious if folks feel like Padme will replace the 2x V-19's once she drops (hopefully) next month?

Seems like her ability will help the Jedi on defense while also doing about as much damage and she can stack focus/evade herself. I assume she'll be less than 50 too for a bigger bid.

I think she'll fall into the same problem I've found with using an ARC in place of the Torrents: too obvious a target.

A not insignificant advantage of the Torrents is that opponents assume they're not worth the effort and try to go after the Jedi, allowing the Torrents to get value. An ARC and Padme are spooky enough that people won't fall for that trap.

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3 hours ago, Brunas said:

You're bringing big rocks because:

 

1. they punish people for getting out of position and restrict options for how to deal with jedi behind/beside you

2. jedi absolutely do not care about rocks at all - you can fine tuned off a rock no problem, so you can pull some maneuvers inside the middle of the board that make any other ace jealous

did not realize you could fine tuned off rocks. but yes, just like you can full throttle off rocks. (which I think is also silly) 

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10 hours ago, Brunas said:

You're bringing big rocks because:

 

1. they punish people for getting out of position and restrict options for how to deal with jedi behind/beside you

2. jedi absolutely do not care about rocks at all - you can fine tuned off a rock no problem, so you can pull some maneuvers inside the middle of the board that make any other ace jealous

It's a bit of an overstatement to say that they don't care - they still have the chance of damage (even with 7B, 1 damage isn't trivial), and they get no action other than FTC so they have no mods other than the Force. It's a useful option but there are costs to it.

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1 hour ago, Dasharr said:

It's a bit of an overstatement to say that they don't care - they still have the chance of damage (even with 7B, 1 damage isn't trivial), and they get no action other than FTC so they have no mods other than the Force. It's a useful option but there are costs to it.

So you're saying they only get 2 actions? Yeah in my book, that counts as 'not caring'.

The real danger is to end up in the worst possible way on a rock, where boost and barrel roll templates would overlap the obstacle - and that's not allowed.

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