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Quack Shot

2019 SoCal Hyperspace Trial Playlist (The Trial is the one ending in “totally not Fortressing”)

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Posted (edited)

I see two players playing within the framework constructed by FFG. Boring? Yes. Cheating? No. Unsportsmanlike? No. Kinda like watching a boring game of (American) football, or soccer (futbol), or any game of baseball.

Feels kinda like the title of this thread is designed to be provocative. 

Edit: It does bring an interesting thought to mind though that if FFG ever has plans to officially broadcast games consistently in some capacity to an audience that isn't already playing the game they will have to change the way the game is played to force quicker and more action.

Edited by Skitch_

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5 minutes ago, Skitch_ said:

I see two players playing within the framework constructed by FFG. Boring? Yes. Cheating? No. Unsportsmanlike? No. Kinda like watching a boring game of (American) football, or soccer (futbol), or any game of baseball.

Feels kinda like the title of this thread is designed to be provocative. 

I mean, he didnt call it cheating, or really anything other than "not fortressing", and in that regard, it's true?

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8 minutes ago, Skitch_ said:

I see two players playing within the framework constructed by FFG. Boring? Yes. Cheating? No. Unsportsmanlike? No. Kinda like watching a boring game of (American) football, or soccer (futbol), or any game of baseball.

Feels kinda like the title of this thread is designed to be provocative. 

Edit: It does bring an interesting thought to mind though that if FFG ever has plans to officially broadcast games consistently in some capacity they will have to change the way the game is played to force quicker and more action.

It’s more, here’s the videos to the SoCal Trial, which contains the video of the trial everyone’s discussing on Facebook.  I was there, and know both players. We all had a good time, definitely no cheating.

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That ending is classic, hahahaha! Love it. Nothing like a mush brain after 9 games of Xwing.

I dont think this is cheating or unsportsmanlike or anything. Its two players that want the fight to occur at different parts of the map. If they want to final salvo, then go for it. I don't like the gameplay of keeping ships bumping, but its within the rules and the vipers were not engaging anymore than then the bumped ships, so stopping the bump ship strategy just gives phantoms and vipers and those "electric slide" lists a bit more advantage in these type of situations.

One way to prevent this is to give one player, the "First Player", something like a final salvo advantage until a first round of combat occurs: "Keep your total red dice or gain two more than the total amount of red dice in opponents list". This way, they have an advantage against any fortress-like stalemates, and Second Player has to engage or else will always be at a disadvantage in final salvo."

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1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

For those not clued in who can't watch, what happened?

In the final both player's didn't want to engage on the opponent's terms. Both lists are designed to make engagement happen on their turn. So they didn't engage. @Crimsonwarlock (Quad Viper player) stated his reason in the Krayt thread. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Quack Shot said:

In the final both player's didn't want to engage on the opponent's terms. Both lists are designed to make engagement happen on their turn. So they didn't engage. @Crimsonwarlock (Quad Viper player) stated his reason in the Krayt thread. 

 

They did technically engage.  1 hour and 54 minutes into the game, the republic player accidentally dialed in a bank in the wrong direction and flew Sinker off the board, then about 4 minutes later the first attack dice of the game were thrown.

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1 minute ago, joeshmoe554 said:

They did technically engage.  1 hour and 54 minutes into the game, the republic player accidentally dialed in a bank in the wrong direction and flew Sinker off the board, then about 4 minutes later the first attack dice of the game were thrown.

Yeah, last turn of the game. I just forgot in my summary. 

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5 minutes ago, XPav said:

This calls for a Fortnite/PUBG "board gets smaller if shooting doesn't happen" rule.

Um, how about no. That suggestion if implemented would just arm playing the clock further than final salvo does (Hey, I wait x minutes just out of engagement range but remain closer to the middle than my opponent and I win!!) and really favor heavy joust lists for those who wouldn't play the clock.

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54 minutes ago, Crimsonwarlock said:

After 30Min all ships at R1;of the board edge are destroyed.  After 60 min all ships at R2 are destroyed.  Something like that?

Ulp, there goes Echo.

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7 hours ago, Skitch_ said:

I see two players playing within the framework constructed by FFG. Boring? Yes. Cheating? No. Unsportsmanlike? No. Kinda like watching a boring game of (American) football, or soccer (futbol), or any game of baseball.

Feels kinda like the title of this thread is designed to be provocative. 

Edit: It does bring an interesting thought to mind though that if FFG ever has plans to officially broadcast games consistently in some capacity to an audience that isn't already playing the game they will have to change the way the game is played to force quicker and more action.

I totally agree with this ^^

The only real losers in all this were the poor guys running the stream. Imagine trying to keep viewers engaged for 2 hours, impossible. What I do think this game shows is that some people are incapable of changing their plan. They were both the same kind of list, and they wanted to engage the same kind of way. RNG would make one win. 

6 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

For those not clued in who can't watch, what happened?

Almost 1 hour of space circle work with some die being rolled after almost time. It was both players strategy to do this, **** of a boring game to watch. The commentators at the end were quite funny, especially after the torture they just endured. 

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The more I think about it, whether or not a game is boring *for spectators* shouldn't factor into the rules of X-Wing.

If the community wants some sort of objective play, fine.  I vastly prefer gaining victory points for doing something specific (and maybe with 2-3 scenarios, so no one list can be built to cheese them all), rather than losing ships for not moving enough.  But such things should be done because we think it'll make the game more fun for the players.

//

One last thing: Aces play a run-away strategy all the time.  I wouldn't want some sort of "active engagement" rule which allows that, but punishes generics which try to set a trap.

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Posted (edited)

It’s not about being boring for viewers or commentators.

It’s about unfairly robbing an opponent of a game experience (not the case here as both players opted in and had fun despite the game state. Double fortress is a rare and weird thing) Each game it is expected that two players sit at the table and partake within the rules to compete... Fortressing/pseudo-fortress denies that. You are not playing the game, not until your opponent moves into a position that is in your favour. You are not actively seeking opportunities or attempting to force mistakes. You are simply waiting, not playing, until such time as your opponent plays into your defined space.

 

Once more looking at FFG to implement either objectives to kill fortressing forever, or TO's to stop complaining about “not-fortressing” being bad for the game and actually call it or shut up. Look under the unsportsmanlike conduct instead of the Fortressing definition!

 

Anyway, glad the two players involved enjoyed the game, and congrats to the winner. Quad Starvipers is a bold list choice, I like it.

Edited by LagJanson

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

The only real losers in all this were the poor guys running the stream. Imagine trying to keep viewers engaged for 2 hours, impossible.

Marshal for that event here. We had three in-store spectators and myself watching as well. The only thing keeping us entertained was the constant stream of hilarious banter everyone by the table was doing, led by the players themselves.

Both players played within the legal bounds of the game. Neither was breaking any rule, and they were playing deliberately, with intent, and as quickly as reasonably expected. There's nothing I can do to make them "play differently" without arbitrarily changing rules.

Edited by caelenvasius

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31 minutes ago, caelenvasius said:

Marshal for that event here. We had three in-store spectators and myself watching as well. The only thing keeping us entertained was the constant stream of hilarious banter everyone by the table was doing, led by the players themselves.

Both players played within the legal bounds of the game. Neither was breaking any rule, and they were playing deliberately, with intent, and as quickly as reasonably expected. There's nothing I can do to make them "play differently" without arbitrarily changing rules.

I totally agree with you, there isn’t anything to complain about from the game perspective, no rules were broken. 

The streamers did what they could, I think they even put up a banner stating that they will inform us when something happens, we promise. I only said it was a worse than boring game to watch, especially as a final. Saying that, I understand the game wasn’t played for the viewer. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, LagJanson said:

both players opted in

This is a particularly important point and one that makes the whole thing practically a non-issue.

Couldn't bring myself to watch much of it but, unless I'm mistaken, the ARC and Delta were bumped in the corner for loooong. If that's the case, and I don't know that it was, then that actually does contravene the fortressing 'rule'. But if both players and judges were happy with that then :shrug:

I still don't understand why neither felt like they could bait their opponent into an even slightly compromising position, but I guess neither wanted to take one iota of risk. And this is just what happens in any game where both players decide to gamble absolutely nothing.

Edited by Cuz05

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