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xero989

AMM, Slow and Steady the VSD.

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I love the VSD dearly, but it is hopelessly outclassed in every aspect of the game by other ships. It's basically a points gift to your opponent.

Speed II ships seemed like a good idea I guess, but not a single one of them sees use really, even the MC80's are never seen without Engine Techs.

The VSD is still further crippled by only a single yaw.

Unless FFG do something really significant with the VSD, it will continue to languish in dry-dock unless it is being used in themed games.

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I've had some good luck taking a single VSD with Tua/ECM and Dcaps. That combination helps the survivability and gives it a single turn threat range greater than an ISD.  I'm not sure it would be competitive at a tournament but it's solid in a casual game.

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I love the Vic and always have to talk myself out of running one (I ran a multi Vic list in last years Euros and didn't do too well}, a VSD1 with Ex racks and Xi7s will always have your opponent running away from things like your Hyperspace assault objective card. I have thought about Brunson to try to keep the Vic 1 alive to get into range to deal out some black dice love.

The article is correct, SA has killed the already tarnished Vic, I am really hoping the title in the next campaign brings the Vic back into peoples thoughts as a useable ship.

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Good writeup Xero, Whenever I say these things I feel inevitably the defenders come forward to say, "No the VSD is perfectly fine, you just need xyz. Here's a tournament result when it ended up in first place facing ships it's idealized to counter."

The VSD was only relevant in the days before the ISD came out. Since then other ships have been so much better choices for the reasons you've outlined. And with the meta favoring big ship batteries it's just better to take the bigger ships.

Speed is one area I've long wished the VSD would improve in, the other is Protection. If it can't race up to targets it needs to be able to live long enough on the plodding approach, and I'd wager if the ship had better tools to survive monster barrages out of big ships you might see players more inclined to fly multiples of them. Right now VSDs can terrorize any small ships they can get in their sights- but they're helpless against big boats designed to kill other big boats and are ineffective against fighters.

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Posted (edited)

Didn't @clontroper5 have a build with Tarkin for a group of VSDs?  Something about defensive officer upgrades that used tokens to change the commands on activation.

Also, while I enjoyed the article, you had a significant contradiction in it.  You said to not run gunnery teams and go straight up the middle with VSDs, but then mentioned how the 7th Fleet title could help VSDs.  7th Fleet is really for VSDs who use gunnery teams.

 

Edited by SoonerTed

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3 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

 

Also, while I enjoyed the article, you had a significant contradiction in it.  You said to not run gunnery teams and go straight up the middle with VSDs, but then mentioned how the 7th Fleet title could help VSDs.  7th Fleet is really for VSDs who use gunnery teams.

 

I'm not quite sure why this is seen as a controdiction. You can run 7th fleet with out gunnery teams just fine, its just all about approach.

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11 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

Didn't clontrooper (sp & I don't know how to tag him) have a build with Tarkin for a group of VSDs?

 

@SoonerTed To tag someone, hit the @ key on your keyboard, then start typing their name. You'll get a list of users that will be pared down as you type until you see the user you want. Click on their picture/name and it will format the rest.

Hope that helps!

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6 minutes ago, xero989 said:

I'm not quite sure why this is seen as a controdiction. You can run 7th fleet with out gunnery teams just fine, its just all about approach.

7th fleet only works on the front firing arc.  So to keep the damage reduction you want to go straight at the enemy, something the article discourages strongly.

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2 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

7th fleet only works on the front firing arc.  So to keep the damage reduction you want to go straight at the enemy, something the article discourages strongly.

You just have to have your front arch facing the other player you can still approch from their side and then with a slight adjustment of yaw still obtian the sideswiping attack on the key turn.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SoonerTed said:

Didn't @clontroper5 have a build with Tarkin for a group of VSDs?  Something about defensive officer upgrades that used tokens to change the commands on activation.

Also, while I enjoyed the article, you had a significant contradiction in it.  You said to not run gunnery teams and go straight up the middle with VSDs, but then mentioned how the 7th Fleet title could help VSDs.  7th Fleet is really for VSDs who use gunnery teams.

 

Yep, this is one version of the list I have on file still:

Tarkin Doctrine 
Author: Clontroper5

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 398/400  

Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Minefields

 

[ flagship ] Victory I-Class Star Destroyer(73 points)
-  Grand Moff Tarkin  ( 38  points) 
-  Weapons Liaison  ( 3  points) 
-  XI7 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
= 120 total ship cost

 

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
-  Defense Liaison  ( 3  points) 
-  XI7 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
= 82 total ship cost

 

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
-  Defense Liaison  ( 3  points) 
-  XI7 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
= 82 total ship cost

 

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
-  Defense Liaison  ( 3  points) 
-  XI7 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
= 82 total ship cost

 

4 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 32 points) 
= 32 total squadron cost

 

 

 

Pretty good acually, prone to getting out activated and out deployed but it's a good brawling list and with Tarkins help can regenerate enough HP to make it difficult to table anyway. You could drop the fighters for a Gozanti and some more upgrades if you want. The basic premise is to spam CF commands on the VSDs, then use tarkin tokens to heal shields and to change to Nav or engineering dials as needed with D Liason. 

 

I also have a version with JJ that I quite like

Edited by clontroper5

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Here's the JJ one: 


Quad vic 
Author: Clontroper5

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 375/400  

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

 

[ flagship ] Victory I-Class Star Destroyer(73 points)
-  Moff Jerjerrod  ( 23  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  External Racks  ( 3  points) 
= 111 total ship cost

 

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  External Racks  ( 3  points) 
= 88 total ship cost

 

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  External Racks  ( 3  points) 
= 88 total ship cost

 

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  External Racks  ( 3  points) 
= 88 total ship cost

 

This has 25 points left over for either a Goxanti, a few ties, or more upgrades and a bid

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11 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:

Yep, this is one version of the list I have on file still:

Tarkin Doctrine 
Author: Clontroper5

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 398/400  

Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Minefields

 

[ flagship ] Victory I-Class Star Destroyer(73 points)
-  Grand Moff Tarkin  ( 38  points) 
-  Weapons Liaison  ( 3  points) 
-  XI7 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
= 120 total ship cost

 

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
-  Defense Liaison  ( 3  points) 
-  XI7 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
= 82 total ship cost

 

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
-  Defense Liaison  ( 3  points) 
-  XI7 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
= 82 total ship cost

 

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
-  Defense Liaison  ( 3  points) 
-  XI7 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
= 82 total ship cost

 

4 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 32 points) 
= 32 total squadron cost

 

 

 

Pretty good acually, prone to getting out activated and out deployed but it's a good brawling list and with Tarkins help can regenerate enough HP to make it difficult to table anyway. You could drop the fighters for a Gozanti and some more upgrades if you want. The basic premise is to spam CF commands on the VSDs, then use tarkin tokens to heal shields and to change to Nav or engineering dials as needed with D Liason. 

 

I also have a version with JJ that I quite like

You also had one that included one ISD as the flagship, IIRC.  I'd be interested to see how you would fit the 7th Fleet Title on the VSDs, as well as the Tarkin Title for the ISD.

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11 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

You also had one that included one ISD as the flagship, IIRC.  I'd be interested to see how you would fit the 7th Fleet Title on the VSDs, as well as the Tarkin Title for the ISD.

Name: Tarkin IVV
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault: 
Defense: 
Navigation:

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Grand Moff Tarkin (38)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Sovereign (4)
= 176 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 88 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 88 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Minister Tua (2)
• Slicer Tools (7)
• Suppressor (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
= 43 Points

 

Another powerful long range focused list, low deployment is kinda an issue but the list wants to run in specific formations anyway, Jerk gozanti can be anything really, slow Rollin formation blasting away, use IFF and CF to make It painful, Tarkin to engineer or nav as needed. 

 

I'm personally not a big fan of 7th fleet, I always feel like I want at least 3 to make it worth it and then since it only works on the front arc it can be too easily bypassed IMO. 

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1 minute ago, clontroper5 said:

Name: Tarkin IVV
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault: 
Defense: 
Navigation:

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Grand Moff Tarkin (38)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Sovereign (4)
= 176 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 88 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
= 88 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Minister Tua (2)
• Slicer Tools (7)
• Suppressor (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
= 43 Points

 

Another powerful long range focused list, low deployment is kinda an issue but the list wants to run in specific formations anyway, Jerk gozanti can be anything really, slow Rollin formation blasting away, use IFF and CF to make It painful, Tarkin to engineer or nav as needed. 

 

I'm personally not a big fan of 7th fleet, I always feel like I want at least 3 to make it worth it and then since it only works on the front arc it can be too easily bypassed IMO. 

I understand your concerns about the 7th fleet.  The list I'm remembering you had 3 VSDs + 1 ISD.  But that could be a figment of my imagination, since I've slept since then.

 

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3 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

I understand your concerns about the 7th fleet.  The list I'm remembering you had 3 VSDs + 1 ISD.  But that could be a figment of my imagination, since I've slept since then.

 

So I have never this in a game but it is possible:

 

Name: Tarkin IVVV
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault: 
Defense: 
Navigation:

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Grand Moff Tarkin (38)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Sovereign (4)
= 171 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
= 76 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
= 76 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
= 76 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 399

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2 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:

So I have never this in a game but it is possible:

 

Name: Tarkin IVVV
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault: 
Defense: 
Navigation:

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Grand Moff Tarkin (38)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Sovereign (4)
= 171 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
= 76 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
= 76 Points

Victory I (73)
• Defense Liaison (3)
= 76 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 399

This is a good base to iterate from, I think.  One question for you: do you see Strategic Advisor as critical to this type of fleet?

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2 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

This is a good base to iterate from, I think.  One question for you: do you see Strategic Advisor as critical to this type of fleet?

No not really, it still falls into the limbo mode where it will probably be out activated by most all ship lists and then most squad heavy either a) don't care or b) use pryce/ bail

So it could be replaced with Brunson or another Liason or somthing 

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6 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:

No not really, it still falls into the limbo mode where it will probably be out activated by most all ship lists and then most squad heavy either a) don't care or b) use pryce/ bail

So it could be replaced with Brunson or another Liason or somthing 

Director Krennic is a bit pricey, but seems at home on the Cymoon.  I need to mess around with the base that you've presented and see what I can come up with.  I'm a big fan of the VSD.  I'm not sure exactly why, though.

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In defense of the VSD.  While its not the best at anything... It’s really not terrible at anything.  Being a jack of all trades but master of none really does make it a serviceable platform in any situation.

There is an argument that their greatest weakness is the lack of maneuvering with only a single click at speed 2.  My work around for this has always been Moff JerJer.

I love my VSDs and never venture very far before I go back to them.  I think they’re only going to get better with future upgrades.

  

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35 minutes ago, PartyPotato said:

In defense of the VSD.  While its not the best at anything... It’s really not terrible at anything.  Being a jack of all trades but master of none really does make it a serviceable platform in any situation.

There is an argument that their greatest weakness is the lack of maneuvering with only a single click at speed 2.  My work around for this has always been Moff JerJer.

I love my VSDs and never venture very far before I go back to them.  I think they’re only going to get better with future upgrades.

  

*shudders from the memories...*

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1 hour ago, PartyPotato said:

In defense of the VSD.  While its not the best at anything... It’s really not terrible at anything.  Being a jack of all trades but master of none really does make it a serviceable platform in any situation.

Do these situations include.... first player

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