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Airen Cracken with Cluster Missiles

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The first question is: can Airen Cracken proc his ability twice when he uses cluster missiles?

The second question, if the answer for the first one is "yes": if Airen Cracken gives action to e.g. y-wing and then the y-w performs a red barrel roll, does it get 1 stress (because the broll is red in the first place) or 2 stress tokens (1 from Airen and 1 from red broll?)

And the last one - if Airen gives action to e.g. Wedge with debris gambit, Wedge performs red evade action, but thx to being close to an asteroid, red evade becomes white evade - is action more white because of debris gambit wording or is it more red because of Cracken's ability wording?

Thx for your feedback.

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After you perform an attack, you may choose 1 friendly ship at range 1. That ship may perform an action, treating it as red.

 

You get to trigger the ability after each of the Cluster Missile attacks.  A red roll being treated as red is still just red, so just one stress.

Debris Gambit loses to Airen's ability, because when two effects change a difficulty, the more difficult one wins.

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2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

because when two effects change a difficulty, the more difficult one wins.

Just to clarify, when two (or more) effects change a difficulty of an Action, the more restrictive one wins. White, then Red, then Purple. 

But in the case of maneuvers, Difficulty is cumulative. 

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2 hours ago, Stoneface said:

In 1e it was ruled that Cracken's ability only worked on the initial shot with cluster missiles. What changed to allow it to proc twice?

Basically it's a change in wording. In 1e the double-tap weapons said, "perform this attack twice." In 2e the new cluster missiles says, "after this attack..." which adds the bonus attack to the ability queue right along with all other after attacking type abilities.

Originally though 1e double tap did proc after attacking abilities twice, but when triple-stress dealing Y-wings started ruining the game for people they FAQ'd the combo to not work.

1e vs 2e cluster missiles:

latest?cb=20130427093613Card_Upgrade_37.png

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PS: if you look in the current Rules Reference (1.0.4) on p5 at the Aftermath step of attacking it outlines that after attacking abilities that do not grant a bonus attack are resolved before those that do grant a bonus attack.

Just as a commentary: the Multi-attack abilities of 1e are greatly reduced by 2e's "only one bonus attack per round" limit (p6, Bonus Attack) which means that the designers don't need to worry as much about crazy combos in the after attacking timing window.

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3 hours ago, Stoneface said:

In 1e it was ruled that Cracken's ability only worked on the initial shot with cluster missiles. What changed to allow it to proc twice?

Yeah as noted above they ruled perform this attack twice weapons differently generally to avoid double tlts being stupid.

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Follow up question, If Cracken has Munitions Failsafe equipped and triggers it after rolling attack dice, did the attack still take place and just miss or was the attack canceled and that ends the engagement phase for him?

Specifically, can he trigger Failsafe, then hand an action off to a friendly and then attack another ship, trigger failsafe and again pass an action and spend 0 net charges?

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14 minutes ago, pickirk01 said:

Follow up question, If Cracken has Munitions Failsafe equipped and triggers it after rolling attack dice, did the attack still take place and just miss or was the attack canceled and that ends the engagement phase for him?

Specifically, can he trigger Failsafe, then hand an action off to a friendly and then attack another ship, trigger failsafe and again pass an action and spend 0 net charges?

I think so since you're specifically cancelling the dice and not the attack.

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Just now, Hiemfire said:

I think so since you're specifically cancelling the dice and not the attack.

That is what I was thinking but can't find anything to support or overturn my theory,

Thanks.

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@pickirk01 Funny you should ask, I've got a list with this intention lined up for casual night this week! I think the key words here are "after this attack" on the cluster missiles. It doesn't require a complete attack, attack that hits, or any other conditions. Even if the attack is cancelled and stopped by Munitions Failsafe there should still be a trigger for "after this attack" unless MF were to treat the attack as not having happened, but that would be adding an effect that is not spelled out in the card.

Considering MF's very specific wording on its timing, "after rolling attack dice," and the cost, "cancel all dice results," the attack should still proceed as normal. As in your target should technically still roll defense and you should compare results. Of course there's not much point, so everyone skips it, but there are fringe cases where it might matter such as this one.

Munitions Failsafe card for reference:

Card_Upgrade_74.png

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

@pickirk01 Funny you should ask, I've got a list with this intention lined up for casual night this week! I think the key words here are "after this attack" on the cluster missiles. It doesn't require a complete attack, attack that hits, or any other conditions. Even if the attack is cancelled and stopped by Munitions Failsafe there should still be a trigger for "after this attack" unless MF were to treat the attack as not having happened, but that would be adding an effect that is not spelled out in the card.

Considering MF's very specific wording on its timing, "after rolling attack dice," and the cost, "cancel all dice results," the attack should still proceed as normal. As in your target should technically still roll defense and you should compare results. Of course there's not much point, so everyone skips it, but there are fringe cases where it might matter such as this one.

 

Yeah I want to try this jank for casual night this week.

  • Cracken with MF, Clusters, Swarm Tactics (ST)
  • Arvel with Intimidation and ST
  • Gold Squad Vet with Protons, ST, R3 and Hull
  • Gold Squad Vet with Protons, ST, R3 and Hull

Round 1: Arvel Blocks, Cracken shoots twice, using MF on the second unlocked shot to conserve a charge and the Y's get locks from him and fire 1st torp charge against blocked ship.

Round 2: Arvel Blocks 2nd target ship, Y's shoot 2 torp with 2nd lock from round 1 Cracken/R3 combo and then Cracken shoots twice, missing on the 2nd this time giving both of them Red Reload actions to get a torp back but ditch the weapons disabled before next round.

Round 3: Good luck because there is no way that stuff from Rounds 1-2 worked.

Edited by pickirk01

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For the record, if we're discussing janky combos, you could have a TIE/sf loaded out thusly:

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)    
    Hotshot Gunner (7)    
    Cluster Missiles (5)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)   
Ship total: 45

You could declare a Cluster Missile attack, cancel all attack dice with Failsafe, then strip a focus/calc token after the attack... then do it again to another target.

I mean, it's not a GOOD combo.  But it is a combo.

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There's also the "friendly fire" combo with Torani:

Torani Kulda (48)    
    Cluster Missiles (5)    
    R5-TK (0)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)   
Ship total: 54

You can declare one or both attacks against a friendly ship and then cancel them to trigger Torani's ability twice.

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4 hours ago, Ysenhal said:

There's also the "friendly fire" combo with Torani:

Torani Kulda (48)    
    Cluster Missiles (5)    
    R5-TK (0)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)   
Ship total: 54

You can declare one or both attacks against a friendly ship and then cancel them to trigger Torani's ability twice.

Oooh, I like that one.

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6 hours ago, Ysenhal said:

There's also the "friendly fire" combo with Torani:

Torani Kulda (48)    
    Cluster Missiles (5)    
    R5-TK (0)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)   
Ship total: 54

You can declare one or both attacks against a friendly ship and then cancel them to trigger Torani's ability twice.

That is just evil.

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