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Bucknife

Quad T70s (Updated thread)

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15 hours ago, Glattyator said:

All of this is to say don't rely on flying in such a way that you limit your options in future turns or hang on to a sole strategy with a list. Board-state is in constant change and adaptability with skilled flying is what will win more times than not.

Agree wholeheartedly. T-70s are very adaptable. I was just making an observation.

You will always want to adapt your approach to your target, but loadout also matters in that.

Cannon Hardpoint

  • When your hardpoints are fitted with Ion Cannons (quite a nice option for rookies to give you an alt-fire mode that delivers some ion control and can be used to full effect with a barrel roll/link/focus), there's no real downside, so you might as well fly in a close 'block' to provide as much overlap of arcs as possible, as actually ionizing a target takes massed fire, and then you can roll into range 1 of the predictable, unreinforced target and blow it away with 4-dice primary shots:

X X

X X

  • When packing Heavy Laser Cannons, you're....frankly not going to be 'hunting' for bullseye shots - you don't naturally have the ability to roll without closing S-foils (which hurts if you miss your bullseye!), though BB astromechs cover this nicely - because of your relatively low initiative, but it is bullseye shots which are your killers. A better plan is a reasonably tightly-packed line abreast, such that you create a 'crossfire' of bullseye shots such that even if an opponent dodges one, they probably blunder into another (and have potentially now spent their action on something that's not an evade token).

X X X X

  • When packing Marksmanship/Autoblaster, you only really gain a benefit when firing at a target from outside its frontal arc, so you want to spread your initial line wider to try and have some of your ships coming in from a flank. Then the 'head on' attackers fire first to take down shields (if any) and the flankers can drop criticals which ignore evade results on the vulnerable target.

X     X     X     X

 

Missile Hardpoint

  • Points changes also put Homing Missiles back into reach for Rookies - a decent answer to elusive aces. It's not as good as it is on the TIE/sf, who are replacing a 2-dice attack, not a 3-dice attack, and have access to Passive Sensors to take target locking out of the equation. But 4 homing missiles is still nothing to sneeze at, and if you can snag a target lock during a turn when you have nothing else to do, it's a darn sight more effective at range 3 than a 3-dice primary shot is likely to be.
  • Cluster missiles are available but probably not useful. The T-70 already throws 3 dice at range 2, so cluster missiles are only really useful when able to effectively use their bonus attack. Triple T-70 squads can do this - an R3 Astromech to provide two separate locks, for example, and several pilots can get multiple actions or dice modifiers easily - and being able to double-tap in the opening engagement is not a bad trick - but if you want 4 X-wings you can only afford the missiles themselves.
  • Ion Missiles and BB Astromechs for rookies is an interesting one. The Ion Missile is overall harder to use and no more capable than the Ion Cannon. Avoiding defensive bonus at range 3 is nice, but not getting offensive bonus at range 1 means actually ionizing a target is likely to be irritatingly rare. The BB Astromech is a nice added bonus, though.

Tech Upgrade

  • Advanced Optics and BB Astromech feels so-so. I like advanced optics, but they only matter when you roll at least one blank and no focus results....and on a 3-4 dice attack, that actually feels relatively rare, especially since turning no hits into one hit...isn't that great.
  • Pattern Analyser. This is the new thing to hit the basic Rookie's T-70. Being able to talon roll and still get actions turns your 4-per-squad rookie into Nien Numb or Ello Asty. A bit. But seriously, the drop-off in effect of not getting tokens when you k-turn or talon roll means being able to do so is a pretty big deal.

Astromech Upgrade

  • R4 Astromech & Heroic is an interesting option for Red Squadron Experts. The upgrade package doesn't make you stand out in any particular way, but just makes you generally 'better', with blue hard turns and (normally defensive) insurance against blank dice.
  • BB Astromech & Spare Parts Canister. I'm not sure free barrel rolls are that big a deal for rookies without a big gun to line up, but the extra charge doesn't hurt. More to the point, having the ability to drop a pseudo-minefield is an interesting option. Cancelling target locks probably isn't a big deal (because of your low initiative) but it might be worth it if facing someone with a persistant lock (Midnight, or a TIE/x1 or something)

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At the beginning of the previous points change/start of Hyperspace season, I started running 4x Regenerating Rookies. They were a little dependent on Focus... but, as a block, they are a solid contender and still one of my favourites. They rarely got taken off in one go, and this allowed them to Regenerate (or threaten regeneration) whilst blocking. They did really well... until Y-Ions and Rebel Beef started making an impact. They were fairly forgiving.
Not sure what an extra four points does for them....
One with Advanced Optics? Heavy Laser?
2xTractor Beams?
Black One? This could be interesting from the "Shoot Me First LOL Disengage Regen" Standpoint.

I did try Heavy Lasers, but they just did not seem to fire.
Now that they can take a BB Astromech with Heavy Lasers, though, this seems pretty good:
Start off in a Block:
X X
X X
Then BB barrel roll for free into a line on first engagement if possible:
X X X X
People still generally will not want to Joust it, so they are going to try and flank... which is fine, to a certain extent if you have your ships already on an angle to the opponent.
Maybe have two wings running nearby but on different angles to create a no-fly zone.
Also helps them to slow down a little if need be.

I never thought of the Ion Cannon until just mentioned... I have a feeling that it will be OK, but not brilliant?
Maybe two Ion Rookies and two Pattern Analyser Rookies - Ionise Target, K/Tallon behind a hapless opponent if feasible. Not sure.

...Does a Hull Upgrade sound ok?
3 Shields, 5 Hull on a moderately mobile Agility 2 platform seems kind of good. Definitely would be unlucky to be wiped in one turn against all but the most potent alpha strike.

***

I did test Heroic and Predator Reds and found them lacking a bit when compared to the Regen Rookies. Perhaps it was the flying style that let me down... it was moderately early in to my quad-T70 foray, and I am mediocre at best, so it definitely could be me.
However, now that Black Aces can take a 1 point upgrade, I think that these should be something to look at. Crack and Heroic seem pretty good here.

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41 minutes ago, Vespid1311 said:

Now that they can take a BB Astromech with Heavy Lasers, though, this seems pretty good

That was my thought. It's still far from automatic, but pairing potential free barrel rolls with heavy laser cannons sounds like a nice option.

42 minutes ago, Vespid1311 said:

...Does a Hull Upgrade sound ok?

I don't know. It does make them tougher but then durability was never really their problem. More importantly, is +1 hull that you don't need to waste actions or attacks that much better than +2 hull or +2 shields where you do?

43 minutes ago, Vespid1311 said:

However, now that Black Aces can take a 1 point upgrade, I think that these should be something to look at. Crack and Heroic seem pretty good here.

I'd probably say Crack Shot. you're basically splurging a lot of points to get nearly-ace Initiative 4. The reason to do that is to use 4 x 3-dice attacks to try and kill stuff before it fires, or to get a turn of everyone shooting without losing a ship to initiative kills. In either case, Crack Shot ups the amount of damage you do for a very reasonable outlay.

 

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6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

BB Astromech & Spare Parts Canister. I'm not sure free barrel rolls are that big a deal for rookies without a big gun to line up, but the extra charge doesn't hurt. 

I think BB droids on rookies is fantastic.  It allows you to expand/collapse/align your kill boxes along with great blocking options.  This is the version I'd been messing around with (cuz I heart Snap).  It got a little room with the points change, which could be Black One on Snap, or a Tractor Beam on him to pull targets into more arcs if it makes sense, etc.  It gives a pocket ace in Snap and has zero reliability on staying in formation.

Temmin Wexley (54)
Composure (1)
BB Astromech (4)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Blue Squadron Rookie (45)
BB Astromech (1)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Blue Squadron Rookie (45)
BB Astromech (1)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Blue Squadron Rookie (45)
BB Astromech (1)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Total: 197

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

 

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41 minutes ago, gennataos said:

It got a little room with the points change, which could be Black One on Snap, or a Tractor Beam on him to pull targets into more arcs if it makes sense, etc.  It gives a pocket ace in Snap and has zero reliability on staying in formation.

I think the tractor beam is a good call. You won't always want to use it, but if you can force a target off a rock, or into a new range band, as well as tractoring them, you'll more than make up the lost damage with the rookies' shots.

Bonus comedy value; yank grappling struts vultures or hyenas off a rock, leaving the open struts twitching uselessly.

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This is what I'm thinking

Lieutenant Bastian (48)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 4    
    
Jessika Pava (51)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 51  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 4    
    
Blue Squadron Rookie (45)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 45  Half Points: 23  Threshold: 4    
    
Temmin Wexley (54)    
    Composure (1)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 55  Half Points: 28  Threshold: 4    
        
Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Resistance&d=v8ZsZ200Z254XWW175WWWY296XWW175WWWY258XWW175WWWY297X115WWW175WWW&sn=New Squadron&obs=

Start off flying in a box, so Wex always fails his boost.  Then there is a good chance you have 3 double modded shots in the first engage

 

Edited by Andyf1702

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1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Bonus comedy value; yank grappling struts vultures or hyenas off a rock, leaving the open struts twitching uselessly.

They should be able to move normally, I think.

Quote

After you reveal your dial, if you reveal a maneuver other than a 2 Icon maneuver straight and are at range 0 of an asteroid or debris cloud, skip your Execute Maneuver step and remove 1 stress token; if you reveled a right or left maneuver, rotate your ship 90° in that direction.

After you execute a maneuver, flip this card.

The 'if' statement in that depends on being at Range 0 of an asteroid.  If you aren't at Range 0 of an Asteroid or Debris Cloud, you won't skip your Execute Maneuver step.  If you don't skip that step, you do a normal maneuver, then will flip the card later.

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1 hour ago, Andyf1702 said:

This is what I'm thinking

Lieutenant Bastian (48)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 4    
    
Jessika Pava (51)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 51  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 4    
    
Blue Squadron Rookie (45)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 45  Half Points: 23  Threshold: 4    
    
Temmin Wexley (54)    
    Composure (1)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 55  Half Points: 28  Threshold: 4    
        
Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Resistance&d=v8ZsZ200Z254XWW175WWWY296XWW175WWWY258XWW175WWWY297X115WWW175WWW&sn=New Squadron&obs=

Start off flying in a box, so Wex always fails his boost.  Then there is a good chance you have 3 double modded shots in the first engage

 

Hmmm...this sort of combo was alive before, often with Bastian, Jess, Snap and an A-Wing as the fourth.  But now, with the drops to the rookie and Jess, this fits and wouldn't before.  Interesting.  I'm not sure if the rookie is a better replacement than an A-Wing, but it's certainly interesting.

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11 hours ago, gennataos said:

Hmmm...this sort of combo was alive before, often with Bastian, Jess, Snap and an A-Wing as the fourth.  But now, with the drops to the rookie and Jess, this fits and wouldn't before.  Interesting.  I'm not sure if the rookie is a better replacement than an A-Wing, but it's certainly interesting.

I replaced the awing with a resistance transport. Coordinate is sooooo good. I went with pattern anaylyzer, r4 Cova Nell thinking I would get the extra dice, but in two games I found myself coordinating a lot more. So going with nodin now instead.

Lieutenant Bastian (48)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Jessika Pava (51)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Temmin Wexley (54)
Composure (1)
Integrated S-Foils (0)

Nodin Chavdri (36)
Autoblasters (2)
Korr Sella (6)
R4 Astromech (2)
Total: 200

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On 7/2/2019 at 7:57 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

I'd probably say Crack Shot. you're basically splurging a lot of points to get nearly-ace Initiative 4. The reason to do that is to use 4 x 3-dice attacks to try and kill stuff before it fires, or to get a turn of everyone shooting without losing a ship to initiative kills. In either case, Crack Shot ups the amount of damage you do for a very reasonable outlay.

The more I think about it, four Crack Black seems like the version which is most tempting to me.  If they're higher initiative, they can also potentially leverage their closed S-Foils for Focus/Roll, as well.  Much better chance to keep someone in bullseye for full attack dice at higher Init.

 

If I could run 4 Blues with both R2 and BB, I'd do that, but they only have one astromech slot. :P

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30 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

they can also potentially leverage their closed S-Foils for Focus/Roll, as well.

Focus/Roll and a centreline ability does seem like a nice option. I'm tempted to try BB Astromech/Heavy Laser Cannon for similar reasons.

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On 7/2/2019 at 7:47 PM, Andyf1702 said:

This is what I'm thinking

Lieutenant Bastian (48)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 4    
    
Jessika Pava (51)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 51  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 4    
    
Blue Squadron Rookie (45)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 45  Half Points: 23  Threshold: 4    
    
Temmin Wexley (54)    
    Composure (1)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 55  Half Points: 28  Threshold: 4    
        
Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Resistance&d=v8ZsZ200Z254XWW175WWWY296XWW175WWWY258XWW175WWWY297X115WWW175WWW&sn=New Squadron&obs=

Start off flying in a box, so Wex always fails his boost.  Then there is a good chance you have 3 double modded shots in the first engage

 

Nice. This is exactly the list I was coming up with. Well except I'll add a Jamming Beam to each ship... just because I can.
Have you had the chance to try this yet?

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Yeah Bastian, Jess with Temmin is a strong combo.

Have been running the a while with L’ulo and went 3/3 in the UK system open.

I was going to run them with Nodin but now I’m considering Finn or Rose with Threepio.

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I had my first try with the T-70s in second edition last night.

My first game was a quick build game of 4 Rookies versus "Error Type 404" (DBS-404), "Doofus" (DFS-081), a Precise Hunter and General Grievous which was pretty much a massacre as the Separatist Player is getting back into the game after a long absence. The second game was against a much more experienced player using a pair of IG-2000 Aggressors and IG-88D on the Moldy Crow to provide an annoyingly action-efficient squad.

I managed to win both games (well, technically the latter timed out but at the point it did so it was a pair of unshielded but undamaged T-70s hunting a damaged HWK-260 with both aggressors having been shot to bits).

My thoughts:

  • BB Astromechs on Rookies are amazing. I would directly credit the win in both cases to this upgrade, along with the impressive durability of the T-70 chassis. Against the Aggressors, the T-70s formed a pinwheel block, but the turn they engaged they were able to barrel roll en masse to the other side of some debris and use a speed 2 bank to essentially park themselves directly and unexpectedly in front of one Aggressor. Suddenly being presented with 4 range 1 shots when you're expecting to come in from the flank is as terminal an experience as you'd imagine.
  • Advanced Optics is better on a 3-dice primary ship than I thought. Yes, I know it's less efficient than on a 2-dice ship, but the big difference is that you're potentially uplifting 2 hits to 3 or even 3 to 4. What it boils down to is that if an I1 ship still has its focus left by the time it gets to shoot, you know you're going to be able to use it one way or another. More importantly, unlike a heavy laser cannon, it still works (a bit) at range 1 and in off-bullseye shots, which is good because concentrating multiple bullseye shots is unlikely except against the largest enemy ships.

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Haven't seen this thread 'til now... neat.
 

My wife decided to start playing X-Wing and is going to the NOVA Open with me and playing X-Wing.  She isn't a Star Wars fan, but she doesn't hate it either so she didn't care what she was flying so long as it was decent and not too complicated.  I had her running YIons until the points change.  After the change I handed her Jess w/ BB, and 3x Heroic Red Experts.  We played between 4 and 8 games ahead of a small tournament that she was going to attend for NOVA practice(she had never been to a tournament before and I wanted her to have a better idea of what to expect at NOVA.)

So long story shorter, she went 4-0 in swiss, 1st place out of 20 players before the cut.  She ended up 3rd place because we haven't went over counting points towards the end of a match and how that changes target priority and lost by 12 points when there were multiple Vultures to shoot at.  She had some luck on her side, her opponents made some key mistakes and more than once under estimated 4x T-70s.

So yeah, super solid list.

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I've hoping to try 4 rookies with an astromech and Advanced Optics ever since it was called Weapons Guidance and you needed an Integrated Astromech on almost every freakin' T-70 build.  This is AWESOME!  It's time to bring on the SABOTAGE!  [get it, Asty, Sabotage... savvy?]

I also love love love the idea of replacing a T-70 with a transport or the pod... SOOO many more ways to Sabotage!

Like this one.  Vi is weak and vulnerable true, but if you can keep her close to combat but not in it, she can really mess up the primary advantage of higher initiative pilots (secrecy of their maneuver and ability to take reactive actions).  The point of this list is to have the advantage of more ships and firepower granted by low init ships combined with the intelligence you need to take away the advantage of higher init ships.

T-70 X-wing - Blue Squadron Rookie - 55
    Blue Squadron Rookie - (45)
        BB Astromech (1)
        Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)
        Plasma Torpedoes (9)

T-70 X-wing - Blue Squadron Rookie - 50
    Blue Squadron Rookie - (45)
        BB Astromech (1)
        Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)
        Ion Missiles (4)

T-70 X-wing - •Jessika Pava - 63
    •Jessika Pava - The Great Destroyer (51)
        BB Astromech (3)
        Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)
        Plasma Torpedoes (9)

Resistance Transport Pod - •Vi Moradi - 32
    •Vi Moradi - Starling (27)
        •Informant (5)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

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T-70s are just incredibly flexible ships.The transport is also great support ship - even more so than the pod - not least because it has an astromech slot.

M9-G8 is a superb astromech for supporting an ace or pocket ace, giving you range-free, action-free offensive rerolls with any weapon in any target geometry.

also, congratulations to @Burius1981's other half. That's an impressive performance for a relatively simple squad and it just underlines how reliable X-wings can be in the hands of someone using the chassis properly rather than relying on some combination of pilot abilities and upgrades.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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1 hour ago, underling said:

I haven't run it yet, but I like the symmetry/simplicity of four Red Squadron Experts with Heroic and R4.

Absolutely. 

Heroic is the "fan out" deployment build. 

Crack if you want a quick and efficient joust. (That is until Crack goes up to 2+.... probably...)

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Heroic is probably better on lower initiative pilots; it boosts the already impressive durability of the T-70 chassis, whilst Crack Shot requires a (comparatively) low initiative, not-dramatically-manoeuvrable heavy fighter to get bullseye shots on opponents who as often as not are moving last and have the ability to boost or roll and still have focus, force, or evade to modify defence dice if they do. I think Crack Shot is a better buy once you hit the Black Squadron Ace.

 

7 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Anybody working on Quad T70's for the January 2020 point update?

It's a nice, simple archetype; something in it will be useable. I'm not sure what I see changing cost-wise, but Heroic and Crack Shot are the big question marks.

BB Astromech feels ridiculously cheap on the rookie, too - so whilst I don't want to see them up its cost, I don't think I can argue effectively if they do.

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I wish I had the copies for 4 Crack Shot Black Squadron Aces. (Only one in the Conversion kit? Bah, humbug.)  7 HP at Init 4 means they'll almost surely get a shot off, and the entire squad can potentially squish some lower generics.

//

For the Blues... I keep wanting something to do with them while also going for R2 Astromech.  They'd essentially be 9 HP ships, and that seems like it could be a BEAR to bring down.

Init 1 kinda stinks if there's literally any other generics around, but only 45 points for one of these seems like pretty solid value, and there's a lot that could be done in those remaining points.  Optics/BB, HLC/BB, R2, Pattern Analyzer, maybe even Hull Upgrade (8 health no waiting).

//

For other stuff... I just think a mixed Resistance list is probably better than pure 4 T-70.  Something like Jess, Bastian, Snap, and a pod (Rose, probably).  Everyone has fairly easy access to double mods.

If you aren't going with the maximum listbuilding flexibility of the Init 1 Blue, or taking advantage of the Init 4 of Black Aces, mixing in a cheaper pod just opens up the options for everyone else.

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On 7/24/2019 at 1:59 PM, Tharcas said:

I've hoping to try 4 rookies with an astromech and Advanced Optics ever since it was called Weapons Guidance and you needed an Integrated Astromech on almost every freakin' T-70 build.  This is AWESOME!  It's time to bring on the SABOTAGE!  [get it, Asty, Sabotage... savvy?]

I also love love love the idea of replacing a T-70 with a transport or the pod... SOOO many more ways to Sabotage!

Like this one.  Vi is weak and vulnerable true, but if you can keep her close to combat but not in it, she can really mess up the primary advantage of higher initiative pilots (secrecy of their maneuver and ability to take reactive actions).  The point of this list is to have the advantage of more ships and firepower granted by low init ships combined with the intelligence you need to take away the advantage of higher init ships.

T-70 X-wing - Blue Squadron Rookie - 55
    Blue Squadron Rookie - (45)
        BB Astromech (1)
        Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)
        Plasma Torpedoes (9)

T-70 X-wing - Blue Squadron Rookie - 50
    Blue Squadron Rookie - (45)
        BB Astromech (1)
        Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)
        Ion Missiles (4)

T-70 X-wing - •Jessika Pava - 63
    •Jessika Pava - The Great Destroyer (51)
        BB Astromech (3)
        Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)
        Plasma Torpedoes (9)

Resistance Transport Pod - •Vi Moradi - 32
    •Vi Moradi - Starling (27)
        •Informant (5)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I've been seeing some success with this list:

Resistance Transport Pod - •Rose Tico - 28
    •Rose Tico - Earnest Engineer (26)
        Expert Handling (2)

T-70 X-wing - •Jessika Pava - 58
    •Jessika Pava - The Great Destroyer (51)
        BB Astromech (3)
        Integrated S-foils (Open) (0)
        Advanced Optics (4)

T-70 X-wing - Red Squadron Expert - 55
    Red Squadron Expert - (47)
        Heroic (1)
        BB Astromech (3)
        Integrated S-foils (Open) (0)
        Heavy Laser Cannon (4)

T-70 X-wing - •Joph Seastriker - 59
    •Joph Seastriker - Reckless Bodyguard (51)
        Heroic (1)
        BB Astromech (3)
        Integrated S-foils (Open) (0)
        Heavy Laser Cannon (4)

Total: 200/200

 

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I know one of our local players has some success with a Pava, Bastian, Temmin and Finn list(3 T70 and pod). Mods galore, all 3 T70s basically shoot double modded every time(Pava with focus and her rerolls ability, Temmin locks and composure fails a boost, Bastian focuses and gets a free lock when one of the others damages a ship).

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