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Duciris

Cycle V: The Dream-Eaters

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"1 additional target" means you can resolve the criteria of the search again.  So if its "search the top 3 cards of your deck and draw a card", you draw 2 cards. If its "search the top 9 cards for a weapon card", you can get 2 weapon cards. 

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39 minutes ago, Allonym said:

This one won't - at least not to the extent you describe. Mandy's ability specifies that it happens for an investigator, and is limit 1/round, so only one person will get the extra card.

Okay, that seems correct to me too now. So it would work, it would just not be as 'wow' as resolving the whole effect again.

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Another little numbers update. There should be 56 cards between #6 and #38, but no idea how those numbers work with Myriad and Bonded. 

1 Guardian investigator
2 Mandy Thompson
3 Tony Morgan

4 Luke Robinson
5 Survivor investigator

6 guardian sig 1
7 guardian sig 2
8 Occult Evidence x3
9 Shocking Revelation
10 Bounty Contracts
11 Tony's .38 Long Colt x2
12 Tony's Quarry

13 Gate Box
14 Detached from Reality
15 Dream-Gate

16 survivor sig 1
17 survivor sig 2

18 guardian 1
19 guardian 2
20 guardian 3
21 seeker 1
22 seeker 2
23 seeker 3
24 Crystallizer of Dreams
25 Guardian of the Crystallizer

26 rogue 3
27 mystic 1
28 mystic 2
29 Open Gate
30 survivor 1
31 survivor 2 
32 survivor 3
33 bonus
34 bonus
35 bonus
36 bonus
37 basic weakness??
38 basic weakness??


39 scenario card for scenario 1
40 agenda 1 Journal through the gates

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How is the timing on her reaction?

Do you have to trigger it before the search?

And if so, do you have to choose, if you search 3 additional cards or resolve 1 additional target, before the search?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Astrophil84 said:

How is the timing on her reaction?

Do you have to trigger it before the search?

And if so, do you have to choose, if you search 3 additional cards or resolve 1 additional target, before the search?

It would have to be (I mean, I guess it wouldn't HAVE to be, but it sure would be messy otherwise). Because otherwise you would always just draw the regular amount and if you couldn't resolve the ability twice (for instance you're prepared for the worst but only had 1 weapon) you'd just then decide to draw 3 more cards. That seems a little clunky and also overly powerful?

Edited by Soakman

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Posted (edited)

The weirdest part about Mandy to me is, she's the first investigator though that you oddly don't want to draw her signatures (Occult Evidence)!

If you draw them (but don't 'search' for them), you have to spend an action to get them back in your deck!

In a way, they're almost additional weaknesses unless you choose to commit them, but then you're losing their entire point in the deck. Whether you commit it or play it, you're basically either losing a card draw (of something useful) or an action.

Edited by Soakman

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Duciris said:

Just as an interesting aside, her signature card's artwork is a point for point remake of her original artwork (from Arkham Horror 2nd edition & Elder Sign), but with 1 specific difference: no glasses.

ahc37_card_occult-evidence.png

20160629_142309.jpg

I can understand why they would move from the classic character portrait, but why commission a second piece of art that depicts the same scene?

(I wonder if the censor blocker will let the word boobs get through?)

 

1274736678196.jpg

 

Edited by Sindriss

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4 minutes ago, Soakman said:

The weirdest part about Mandy to me is, she's the first investigator though that you oddly don't want to draw her signatures (Occult Evidence)!

If you draw them (but don't 'search' for them), you have to spend an action to get them back in your deck!

In a way, they're almost additional weaknesses unless you choose to commit them, but then you're losing their entire point in the deck. Whether you commit it or play it, you're basically either losing a card draw (of something useful) or an action.

This is why I don't think I'd ever want to go above 30 card deck size with her, unless you get something else that's really interesting for doing so. Having a larger deck is awful, with a few minor upsides, and her signature event is rather poor. It would be cool to use a huge search like No Stone Unturned (5) to guarantee you get it on a high-shroud location (you know, once you've already dealt with her weakness), but once you've done that, spending the action to put it back into your deck is really bad - spending an action to put an unreliable, free Working a Hunch into your deck, that you might just draw again and waste your time, is substandard at best.

It all gives me hope that we'll see another, similar mechanic come to Arkham LCG from LOTR LCG - that being player cards that go into the encounter deck. There's several of them in LOTR now and every one of them just feels awesome.

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20 minutes ago, Astrophil84 said:

How is the timing on her reaction?

Do you have to trigger it before the search?

And if so, do you have to choose, if you search 3 additional cards or resolve 1 additional target, before the search?

Yes. It has "when" timing, which means it triggers after the triggering condition initiates but before it resolves. So you say, "I'm using the free triggered ability on Mr Rook" or "It's step 4 of the skill test, I'm resolving Leo Anderson's elder sign effect", or whatever, and after the "declaration" that you're using the ability has happened, and once you have paid costs, but before you actually use the ability and start your search or whatever, is the point at which you decide to use Mandy Thompson's investigator ability.

See the Rules Reference for "When" (and, for good measure, the second bullet point under "instead", which governs the exact timing of "would" effects - confusingly enough, that bullet point applies to all "would" abilities whether or not they also use the word "instead").

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Allonym said:

This is why I don't think I'd ever want to go above 30 card deck size with her, unless you get something else that's really interesting for doing so. Having a larger deck is awful, with a few minor upsides, and her signature event is rather poor. It would be cool to use a huge search like No Stone Unturned (5) to guarantee you get it on a high-shroud location (you know, once you've already dealt with her weakness), but once you've done that, spending the action to put it back into your deck is really bad - spending an action to put an unreliable, free Working a Hunch into your deck, that you might just draw again and waste your time, is substandard at best.

It all gives me hope that we'll see another, similar mechanic come to Arkham LCG from LOTR LCG - that being player cards that go into the encounter deck. There's several of them in LOTR now and every one of them just feels awesome.

See it's weird because this is precisely why I would want a larger deck... so I don't draw into the signature events. Using Mr. Rook, you can probably nab the occult evidence a few times fairly easily.

I would think to do this, however, you'd want to have 2 Mr. Rooks, and 2 Truth from Fiction, along with 2 Old books of Lore, and the Occult Lexicon to possibly let yourself get a damage out of discarding the occult evidence if it comes to that. Scatter in some Research Librarians, I dunno. It sure is interesting though.

And I always love a bigger deck. I know it messes with your consistency, but the versatility is nice.

Edited by Soakman

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Soakman said:

See it's weird because this is precisely why I would want a larger deck... so I don't draw into the signature events. Using Mr. Rook, you can probably nab the occult evidence a few times fairly easily.

I would think to do this, however, you'd want to have 2 Mr. Rooks and probably, and 2 Truth from Fiction, along with 2 Old books of Lore, and the Occult Lexicon to possibly let yourself get a damage out of discarding the occult evidence. Scatter in some Research Librarians, I dunno. It sure is interesting though.

And I always love a bigger deck. I know it messes with your consistency, but the versatility is nice.

The problem with that is...you make it much less likely that you'll see your "search" cards. A hard mulligan with 2x Studious sees up to 14 cards, which is almost half your deck...if it's 30 cards. If it's 50 cards, you're seeing significantly less than 1/3 of your deck. Mr "Rook" and No Stone Unturned (5) won't do you any good if they're buried 30 cards down in your deck.

Beyond that, though, if you play with a 50 card deck and 3x Occult Evidence, you're much more likely to see and draw Occult Evidence than a 30 card deck with just one copy. 3/50 is 6% of your deck, 1/30 is 3.33% of your deck. And since you can only resolve 1 copy of Occult Evidence per search, it's harder to get all copies out of your deck without drawing them - if you use No Stone Unturned (5) and you've already dealt with your weakness, you are guaranteed to resolve Occult Evidence, at which point you've avoided getting a dead draw. Do that with 3 copies in your deck and there will be two more waiting for you, and you'll need some other way of getting those dealt with too.

'course, if you like a bigger deck, that's fine. Personal preference and all that. It's certainly getting hard to choose the cards that don't make the cut in decks.

Edited by Allonym

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Allonym said:

The problem with that is...you make it much less likely that you'll see your "search" cards. A hard mulligan with 2x Studious sees up to 14 cards, which is almost half your deck...if it's 30 cards. If it's 50 cards, you're seeing significantly less than 1/3 of your deck. Mr "Rook" and No Stone Unturned (5) won't do you any good if they're buried 30 cards down in your deck.

Beyond that, though, if you play with a 50 card deck and 3x Occult Evidence, you're much more likely to see and draw Occult Evidence than a 30 card deck with just one copy. 3/50 is 6% of your deck, 1/30 is 3.33% of your deck. And since you can only resolve 1 copy of Occult Evidence per search, it's harder to get all copies out of your deck without drawing them - if you use No Stone Unturned (5) and you've already dealt with your weakness, you are guaranteed to resolve Occult Evidence, at which point you've avoided getting a dead draw. Do that with 3 copies in your deck and there will be two more waiting for you, and you'll need some other way of getting those dealt with too.

OH, see I missed the part where they get added to your deck based on its size. I was working under the impression there would always be 3 in your deck. Hmm. 

EDIT: BUT for 5 xp, you also can Glimpse the Unthinkable and have the Occult Evidence in hand shuffled back into your deck. Is that worth it? Hmmmm.

Edited by Soakman

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Soakman said:

OH, see I missed the part where they get added to your deck based on its size. I was working under the impression there would always be 3 in your deck. Hmm. 

Yeah, there's a lot going on there. And we still don't have the actual text of her deckbuilding - the article seems like it tells you all you need to know, but there's actually lots left unclear. I'm betting that if you go for a larger deck, you get some other benefit - for instance, a 30 card deck lets you have up to 10 off-class cards, 40 lets you have 15, 50 lets you have 20. Or, it increases the level range (a 50-card deck lets you have up to level 3 from your off-class, for instance). Because if there isn't some other major benefit to a larger deck, or some kind of card that benefits from a large deck is released, you would never want to go above 30 cards.

I kind of wonder if she'll have the "no assets" stipulation that Tony Morgan has for his chosen off-class. I also wonder if Luke Robinson has the same choice of 3 different off-classes, and it's some kind of theme of the cycle, like how Dunwich investigators all have 5 free choice off-class slots. If that is the case, we know that the Survivor cannot be Silas Marsh, for instance. And it might help with the inevitable speculation about who the remaining 2 investigators will be.

Edited by Allonym

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A bit of a tangent, but if you want to be a true servant of Azathoth, when someone plays On The Hunt at Mandy's location, she can make them draw 2 enemies.  

 

In some cases that can be a great play too, but in most cases you are trolling your teammate lol.

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2 minutes ago, C2K said:

A bit of a tangent, but if you want to be a true servant of Azathoth, when someone plays On The Hunt at Mandy's location, she can make them draw 2 enemies.  

 

In some cases that can be a great play too, but in most cases you are trolling your teammate lol.

(Pushing up her glasses with her middle finger): Zoey, I've done some research, and you know where you can find some MORE serpent people? 

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Just now, C2K said:

A bit of a tangent, but if you want to be a true servant of Azathoth, when someone plays On The Hunt at Mandy's location, she can make them draw 2 enemies.  

 

In some cases that can be a great play too, but in most cases you are trolling your teammate lol.

It would be a really nice play to increase the number of cards seen with On The Hunt, because the two problems with On The Hunt are never finding a monster at all and wasting a card, or the only monster available is one you really don't want to draw. Helps with a lot of other cards, too - I think Flare has been mentioned, but improving Prepared for the Worst would be great for helping a Guardian set up.

What I really want to know is...does it interact with Stick to the Plan? I assume not, because you draw opening hands before you perform all the setup and before you place investigators (so you don't meet the requirement of being at Mandy's location, because no-one is at any location at all yet), but if I'm wrong about that, it would be amazing.

What should work is Anna Kaslow. Search your deck for two tarot cards and put them both into play. That would really make Anna a much stronger buy. You wouldn't want her on Mandy herself, though, because you'd just trigger your signature weakness. Having said that...getting to trigger your signature weakness right at the start of the game is actually not bad, because you can then use all your actual Search cards freely - and you got a free 1/1 soak into the bargain. Now that is some daft jank - having the Tarot lady in your deck without any actual Tarot cards - but it's really funny.

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Here's an idea: Take Rogue as Mandy's secondary, use her power to assemble Deduction, Double or Nothing, and Quick Thinking in your hand, and capitalize on strong Seeker boosts like Fieldwork or Inquiring Mind to ace an investigate test with all three skills committed.

Of course, we don't know how Mandy's secondary-class deck building rules work, but assuming she can take Double or Nothing she would actually be the first Seeker to be able to do so.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Allonym said:

It would be a really nice play to increase the number of cards seen with On The Hunt, because the two problems with On The Hunt are never finding a monster at all and wasting a card, or the only monster available is one you really don't want to draw. Helps with a lot of other cards, too - I think Flare has been mentioned, but improving Prepared for the Worst would be great for helping a Guardian set up.

What I really want to know is...does it interact with Stick to the Plan? I assume not, because you draw opening hands before you perform all the setup and before you place investigators (so you don't meet the requirement of being at Mandy's location, because no-one is at any location at all yet), but if I'm wrong about that, it would be amazing.

What should work is Anna Kaslow. Search your deck for two tarot cards and put them both into play. That would really make Anna a much stronger buy. You wouldn't want her on Mandy herself, though, because you'd just trigger your signature weakness. Having said that...getting to trigger your signature weakness right at the start of the game is actually not bad, because you can then use all your actual Search cards freely - and you got a free 1/1 soak into the bargain. Now that is some daft jank - having the Tarot lady in your deck without any actual Tarot cards - but it's really funny.

I don't think you can use it with Stick to the Plan, but even if you could, you'd have the weakness problem...causing SttP to whiff on its basic function.

Edited by CSerpent

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Charisma + Calling in Favors work with Mandy right?  You would return an Ally to your hand, search the top 9, and get to play two of them, both with cost reduced by X?

As a support character, the whole swarm of Allies tends to work well (e.g. it works on Carolyn).  It would also let you play stuff like Art Student, Research Librarian, or Lab Assistant for a one-time effect, then return them to your hand and play stronger allies with static boosts (Dr. Milan, Leo De Luca, Pete Sylvestre, etc.).  Unless her deckbuilding prevents including Assets of the sub-class like Tony.

There may also be a Dr. Elli + Relic combo here, since I believe if you use Mandy's ability on Dr. Elli's search, she can grab 2 relics and hold them both for you.  Someone on BGG suggested an Ornate Bow build for Mandy (maybe with Pete Sylvestre + Track Shoes for added Agility boosts)

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5 hours ago, Allonym said:

What should work is Anna Kaslow. Search your deck for two tarot cards and put them both into play. That would really make Anna a much stronger buy. You wouldn't want her on Mandy herself, though, because you'd just trigger your signature weakness. Having said that...getting to trigger your signature weakness right at the start of the game is actually not bad, because you can then use all your actual Search cards freely - and you got a free 1/1 soak into the bargain. Now that is some daft jank - having the Tarot lady in your deck without any actual Tarot cards - but it's really funny.

AHC34_283.jpgahc37_card_shocking-discovery.png

Hmm...  I'm wondering what happens when you search your deck with her second reaction ability if Shocking Discovery is still in her deck.  Does this fail and you pull the weakness out?  If it does & Anna is in your opening hand... can you draw the top card of the encounter deck before you start playing?  I'd wager if the first answer is "yes" then the second would be as well.  (I meant to post this same question earlier about the Research Librarian.)

If it does, the Research Librarian would be a terrific way to remove your sig. weakness on your terms.

I really want to know the rest of her deckbuilding rules.  At the moment, she's a prime target for Ikiaq, although I feel it's unlikely as she costs 2XP.  I also want to know if you can change your deck size after you begin, or if you're stuck with 30, 40, or 50 cards in your deck.

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4 hours ago, Duciris said:

AHC34_283.jpgahc37_card_shocking-discovery.png

Hmm...  I'm wondering what happens when you search your deck with her second reaction ability if Shocking Discovery is still in her deck.  Does this fail and you pull the weakness out?  If it does & Anna is in your opening hand... can you draw the top card of the encounter deck before you start playing?  I'd wager if the first answer is "yes" then the second would be as well.  (I meant to post this same question earlier about the Research Librarian.)

That is exactly what I mean. Both Anna Kaslow and Research Librarian will undoubtedly trigger Shocking Revelation, and doing so for free at the start is a great deal (assuming you are OK with turn 0 encounter card).

You know what else benefits from Mandy's ability? Calling In Favours. You could get Anna in play for free, square away your weakness for free, and then Call in Favours, search the top twelve cards of your deck for your second copy and get that for free and get out a tarot. Of course, you can't both use her ability on the Calling in Favours search and the Anna Kaslow search given the "Limit once per round".

However, Calling In Favours plus Charisma is going to be completely busted on Mandy because you will be able to Call In Favours, pull out two allies, and get the discount and free play for both of them. Mandy Thompson is going to utterly supercharge the Miskatonic Army archetype. And if she can use assets from her off-class she will be able to do even more. 

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7 hours ago, CSerpent said:

I don't think you can use it with Stick to the Plan, but even if you could, you'd have the weakness problem...causing SttP to whiff on its basic function.

Mandy can't have Stick to the Plan (if nothing else, she doesn't have Guardian access), unless the has some weird "cards that search your deck 0-3" part to her deckbuilding - I meant for another investigator with Stick to the Plan, since Mandy's ability can be used for others. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Allonym said:

That is exactly what I mean. Both Anna Kaslow and Research Librarian will undoubtedly trigger Shocking Revelation, and doing so for free at the start is a great deal (assuming you are OK with turn 0 encounter card).

You know what else benefits from Mandy's ability? Calling In Favours. You could get Anna in play for free, square away your weakness for free, and then Call in Favours, search the top twelve cards of your deck for your second copy and get that for free and get out a tarot. Of course, you can't both use her ability on the Calling in Favours search and the Anna Kaslow search given the "Limit once per round".

However, Calling In Favours plus Charisma is going to be completely busted on Mandy because you will be able to Call In Favours, pull out two allies, and get the discount and free play for both of them. Mandy Thompson is going to utterly supercharge the Miskatonic Army archetype. And if she can use assets from her off-class she will be able to do even more. 

I love it. "Mr. Rook, you've found all the tools I need. Now could you please go and fetch Dr. Elli Horowitz and an art student to catalogue these findings?" One turn later. "Excellent, that's all done. Art student - I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name - could you please go and find Dr. Christopher and Ms. Kaslow? I need to consult with them about this."

Edited by Assussanni

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"Alright, thank you Dr. CHristopher, that was very valuable help. It seems I will need to go out tonight to stop the ritual myself. Could you please call Dr. Horrowitz for me and tell her to bring her bow and those ancient stones we got from Paris."

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