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Cycle V: The Dream-Eaters

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Spoiler image of all the player cards is on Reddit.

brief summary below:

Guardian gets 2XP versions of Heroic Rescue and Leadership. Personally I never use Heroic rescue and this new version doesn’t seem that much better (it provides a feee move as part of the effect). The 2XP Leadership provides more economy to Guardians - it looks pretty good even if you just use it on yourself, but it’s definitely great if you can commit it to someone else’s check.

Rogue gets Momentum (from preview article) and Haste (2XP) - A Ritual asset taking up Arcane slot which provides a bonus action if you take 2 consecutive actions of the same type (Fight, Evade, Move, Play, Investigate, etc.) during your turn.

Seeker gets the upgraded Dream Diary (3XP) which all automatically puts Essence of the dream into your hand at the start of each of your turns (and gives it additional wild icons based on certain conditions)

Mystic gets an amazing looking ally (3XP) which puts charges back on spells, along with a 2XP Myriad card which is difficult to evaluate (I suspect it’s good for off-class Mystics that don’t rely on Willpower as heavily)

Survivor gets the already previewed Glimmer of Hope myriad event, and a 1 XP skill card for Evasion that works similar to Brute Force and Sharp Vision that lets you automatically evade  2nd enemy at you location if you succeed by 2 or more.

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After the deluxe, I've found myself putting the Mythos Packs on a shelf until the cycle is fully released, as the alternating campaigns was going to feel like way too much time between outings. Anyone else ended up doing this?

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I've been buying and playing them in pairs. Christmas has meant that the wait between parts 2 and 3 hasn't felt so long, but I expect that waiting for both finales to release will be painful!

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First Impressions of Point of No Return:

Heroic Rescue 2:  Well,  I think this is significantly improved over its level 0 variant.   But is that enough?   The ideal circumstance of course is that you kill all the monsters before they have a chance to attack in the first place.   Granted that just isn't practical a lot of the time, and there is where a card like Heroic Rescue comes in.   Maybe best for Tommy because of his access to so much auto-heal from the likes of Peter Sylvestre and Jessica Hyde.   I'm still not convinced this archetype is worth it though.   Maybe this will have a place later,  right now...  I'm not so sure.   In short, it suffers from all the same problems as its predecessor, and is just hard to spend a card slot on.

Leadership 2:  Significantly improved over the level 0 variant.   Leadership 2 is a pretty nice little economy card.   Assuming you commit to a friends check and it passes,  you net 3 icons and 4 resources for the team.   Quite an impressive little card, reminiscent of Stand Together.   This seems great....  as long as you can have your friend pass the test.   It does get a little wonky because you don't just straight up play it like Stand Together,  you want to wait until you can use the icons, which might make it sit in your hand for a little while.    Also, the person who usually needs the willpower support is often the guardian, so Leadership doesnt benefit you as much there.   

Dream Diary:  This gets real good for certain investigators.   Minh, particularly, is just going to go crazy here.  2 Wild every single turn, with 4 wild up for grabs in certain situations.   Particularly the engaged with enemy one makes pulling off evade pretty easy for many Seekers,  so I think someone like Ursula might get a lot of use out of this too, if she wants to be out on her own.   

Empower Self:  My interest is piqued, but I don't quite know the best approach here.   Is all 3 copies of this card a good idea?   Do you maybe just run the Fight bonus one on someone like Jim or Diana?  Potentially you could have a combat mystic,  which would be kinda fun.   Book bonus one might be an option too, Seekers already have some book enhancers like St Hubert's key.   Very curious,  but I dont have any great builds that come to mind immediately.  

Daredevil:   This one was spoiled  a bit ago.   Potentially very useful if you want to make absolutely sure you get a critical skill card (mostly Double or Nothing) at a critical time.   But if that's not your thing,  this just isn't going to be useful in any old deck.    Build around this card or don't play it at all.    What fantastic artwork though.

Haste:  This seems stupid good for Tony in particular.   His combat potential is just going through the roof.   If he doesnt kill something in 2 fight actions he gets a 3rd fight action for free.   But it's so much more than that.   This is a boon for basically anyone who can take it,  and if you are using Leo or other bonus action things already it gets that much easier to pull off.    I can hardly believe this is only 2 xp.  It's worth much more.     Rules:  Curious as to the "memory"   here.    1st action I play Emergency cache,  2nd Action I play Haste.   I just performed 2 actions of the same type,  do I get the Haste bonus even though I didnt have Haste down during my first play?

Twila Katherine Price:   Incredible.   I don't think I can say much more.   Her benefits are obvious.


--
Oops, out of time.   I'll leave the survivor cards to others.      Looks like a good pack!

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3 hours ago, awp832 said:

The ideal circumstance of course is that you kill all the monsters before they have a chance to attack in the first place.   Granted that just isn't practical a lot of the time, and there is where a card like Heroic Rescue comes in. 

I figure the ideal use of Heroic Rescue is in dealing with attacks of opportunity. As in, the Seeker pulls an enemy in the Mythos phase, then just investigates normally in the investigator phase, letting you tank the AOO and save yourself two actions moving and engaging.

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Another rules question:   With Empower Self,  could  one,  theoretically, include 3 of the same copy of Empower Self in their deck, rather than 1 of each variant?   So,   3x Stamina, for example, rather than 1x Stamina, 1x Acuity, 1x Alacrity.   I can't see why not,  but the component limitation is going to be annoying, for those who arent willing to proxy.

 

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I believe that triggering Haste off its own Play action (after another Play action) is allowed. 

"[reaction] After you perform the same type of action twice in a row, exhaust Haste: Take another action of that type again."

By the time you would trigger the ability, Haste is in play, and you have satisfied its condition by taking two Play actions in a row. It is a similar interaction to using Uncage the Soul to play Double, Double before triggering Double, Double to replay Uncage the soul -- I have never seen the legality of that interaction disputed.

 

A few other things about Haste that might be worth mentioning: (edit: this is not as clear cut as I thought, see Allonym's post below.)

Playing an event can count as both a Play action and another type of action. Using Backstab, for example, is a Play action and a Fight action.

Likewise, activating an action triggered ability (the arrow) can count as both an Activate action and another type of action. Shooting a monster with a Derringer, for example, is both an Activate action and a Fight action.

Activate actions are also used for action triggered abilities on Acts or Agendas, on Locations or Enemies (most Parley actions are Activate actions), or on Treacheries.

 

Haste looks very powerful and, as awp832 said, it gets better with other sources of extra actions. It's probably good for anyone who can take it and especially strong for Tony. But I want to try it in "Skids"; and this is the first time I've wanted to play Skids since, um... Eldritch Horror.

Edited by Spritz Tea
Rules are complex

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Alright so, Point of No Return. The short version is that the Guardian cards are surprising updates to bad level 0 cards and both pretty good and very interesting, the Seeker stuff is meh and probably a bit OP, the Rogue stuff is OK, the Mystic stuff is really "interesting", and the Survivor cards are kind of hard to evaluate. But here's my way too in-depth thoughts:

Heroic Rescue (2):

The level 0 version of this card doesn't let you move beforehand and only works on investigators at your location - and it's a bad card, basically. I've tried to make Heroic Rescue (0) work, but the cost - a card, taking a hit on yourself and a resource - is not worth the benefit (a free engage and 1 damage on the enemy), especially since the timing doesn't allow you to take out almost-dead enemies before they get a hit in (you get hit then you deal the damage) and often the only way to make it work is to manufacture a way in which it works, e.g. provoking an attack of opportunity or deliberately letting an enemy attack an ally, at which point you're already playing badly. It feels like a card that wants to be awesome - your friend is jumped by an enemy and you're too far away for the big save, so you get to save them from the damage and deal the enemy damage as well! Except that it's such a niche scenario and you'd be far better off with Dodge to prevent the attack entirely or Taunt to engage the enemy at Fast speed, since those cards have far more flexibility. I'd rather take a card that does most of what another card does as well as lots of other stuff besides.

So I had kind of written Heroic Rescue off, and was very surprised to see an upgrade appear in this pack. It seems that Guardian mobility and support are big themes this campaign, and this feeds into that a lot. Allowing you to move beforehand is huge. It not only allows you to essentially get a free move, but also means that the area you can cover is that much greater. Rather than an effect you have to position yourself carefully to take advantage of, it's an effect that allows you to do your main job with less regard for positioning. One of the biggest problems faced by Guardians and their support/tank cards is that they tend to only affect investigators at your location - and in a multiplayer game, if you're forced to stay in lockstep with other investigators, you're losing out on the benefit of being able to split up and handle tasks efficiently; Heroic Rescue (2) helps attenuate that issue by letting you intervene at range. This card allows you to make some massive plays, where you jump into the fray and save an ally and then bring your other support and tanking tools with you to help out further - I don't know if a support-focused defender build is necessarily strong yet, but it could be really fun. It has a similar feel to Safeguard in that respect - and it synergises really well with Safeguard, allowing you to jump to your ally's aid in one round, then kill the enemy next round and be on their space ready to leech some free moves from them.

Aside from Safeguard, Heroic Rescue (2) has a number of other strategies and synergies that it plays into. You can make some rather good plays by having an ally deliberately provoke an attack of opportunity, allowing you to get your free move, free engage and testless damage and then leave that ally free to take their turn while leaving you perfectly positioned to kill the enemy on your turn - I can already envision the rare occasion where the optimal play is to hand an enemy to another investigator when using First Watch, just to be able to take it back off them, and that kind of silliness fills me with joy. Ever played a pure tank build? Guard Dog and 2x Survival Knife - probably William Yorick, so Aquinnah (3) as an option, recurring Leather Coat and Cherished Keepsake, or using the new Tommy Muldoon and Guardian allies and soak. Rarely ever take actions to attack yourself, but instead let enemies kill themselves on your defenses. It's not the most flexible or consistent of builds (though you end up with more actions to spare so it's good for support or secondary investigation builds), but it is huge fun; this card would be perfect for those kinds of builds, though it's important to be aware of the timing restriction on Survival Knife. Even less pure-tank builds, like Machete/Survival Knife tank Zoey, would love Heroic Rescue (2) for the action economy. Since the new version is 0 resources, it would actually net Zoey a profit from engaging the enemy. It even has potential for Carolyn Fern, as a means of helping deal with enemies and get around - especially if the enemy in question primarily deals horror damage, Carolyn is happy to take it, and staying close to allies is good for her healing ability, plus she loves testless damage. With the added free move to distinguish Heroic Rescue (2) from the other cards that rescue allies from attacks, the "cost" of taking an attack yourself is less onerous, and hammers home the fact that your health and sanity are simply two more resources to be spent in pursuit of victory (how's that for grim, existential dread?).

Now, to temper that enthusiasm, I don't think this is a top-tier card. It's only going to really shine for certain builds, and 2 exp is a steep cost for what it gives you, particularly since Guardians are already very exp-hungry. However, I think it could play a strong role in specific decks and seems to be part of an effort to make guardian bodyguard builds a real possibility. You probably know if you will want this, but I imagine it will make for some very strong plays down the line.

The art is amazing, and I love the image of a woman in a fancy dress holding a shotgun, standing over a tough man. It has such strong pulp/noir vibes. Maybe that's what Fine Clothes Zoey Samaras looks like! The mechanical flavour is pretty awesome too, a proper "get down Mr President" sort of card.

Leadership (2):

What's this, a second level 2 version of a bad level 0 Guardian card coming several cycles after the original release, also trying to make it into a more unique and interesting effect? Unexpected indeed. Leadership (0) makes a strong argument for the worst skill card in the entire game (alongside Prophesy, Opportunist (0) and Intrepid) - a card that is not worth using even in the very specific team configuration in which it works best, and utterly worthless outside of it. This upgrade, however, is massively convincing, making for an exceptionally solid card.

Let's look at the card just if you use it for a test you make yourself. You get +1 to the test from the single wild icon, and if the test is successful, you get 2 resources. This compares favourably to "Watch This!" from rogue - that card can potentially net you 3 resources rather than 2 and is 0 exp, but if you want to get those resources you aren't benefiting from the commit at all (it gives you 1 icon and you need to succeed by at least 1 to get the resource profit), except as part of a larger succeed-by-x combo. "Watch This!" requires you to have resources to use the effect and loses you the resources you gamble if the test fails, and it has 3 non-matching icons so it can't be committed to every test whereas Leadership (2) is 1 wild. Finally, Rogues have plenty of resource-gain cards already, whereas resources are the big weakness of Guardian. 2 resources for 1 card and 0 actions is at least equivalent efficiency to Emergency Cache (0), if the test passes, and it adds an icon to help with that. Cards like Overpower give you +2 to a single skill and a card, this is +1 to any skill and 2 resources; I wouldn't say it's worth 2 exp by itself, but it's solid.

Now if committed to an ally's test, it gets the wild and will icon, but now the extra will icon is merely a nice extra bonus (rather than the entire point of the card if you want to take it instead of Unexpected Courage). You commit Unexpected Courage or maybe even better for WP tests, and if the test succeeds, both you and the other investigator get 2 resources. Help someone pass a test and net the team 4 resources for 0 actions and 1 card? That's an amazing deal.

There's a few issues, however. The first issue is that unless you'll likely be committing this to an ally's test, it's probably not really worth the exp; the effect for your own tests is OK and would be great for 0 exp, but isn't as impressive as, say, "I've Had Worse..." (2). This means that you need to be in the same location as allies who are taking tests to commit it rather than using it yourself. The second issue is that this card suffers from a "use it now or use it later" dilemma - the best time to have resources (except if you expect to be hit by Paranoia or something) is right now, so you want to get this card committed and make the resources from it as soon as possible so you can use them to buy assets and win the game. However, if you aren't in a location with an ally taking tests, you might want to commit it to your own test for immediate payout, or wait until you're in a location with an ally (or waste actions moving to an ally) so you can get the full potential - and both of these options have drawbacks. The design of this card could lead you into playing suboptimally in the hopes that you ultimately benefit down the road, and that's a situation that can lose you games. You'd want to use this card early if possible, to benefit from the resource gain to help setup and because you're more likely to all be in one place early on, but it's not really an impactful enough card to mulligan for, especially for Guardians who have huge amounts of setup to do. It's also jostling for deck space and exp with lots of other cards in the protect allies/support allies/gain resources space, such as Safeguard, Heroic Rescue (2), Fool Me Once..., Stand Together, etc., and Guardians already have so much to spend exp on.

So who is it good for? It's great alongside the other "bodyguard" cards, like Safeguard, Heroic Rescue (2) above, Self-Sacrifice and the various protection cards for other investigators, since those will see you being more likely to share locations with other players and therefore not have to worry about the dilemma above. It's excellent for support-style investigators like Carolyn Fern, and for a money-focused Leo Anderson build. William Yorick might like it, purely on the basis that he is often in need of more resources (though recent Survivor cards have helped him there); Mark Harrigan also often has cashflow issues. I'll have to play with this card a bit to see just how reliable and flexible it is - anything tied to skill tests is inherently restricted and at risk of failure, especially at higher difficulties - but I suspect that this upgrade makes for a very useful card.

The art is quite good, but it's a bit odd in some respects - a police chief giving a rousing speech is very fitting for the theme of Guardian leadership, but mechanically it's a bit weird to think how that might be a really good boon to someone casting Shrivelling or something. On the other hand, it works better for the upgraded version than the level 0 version, since the City Hall backdrop has a bit of a connection with money and influence to represent the resource gain.

Dream Diary (Dreams of an Explorer/a Child/a Madman):

Well well. The "identified" cards have a habit of being hugely overpowered. Strange Solution (Acidic Ichor) is far too powerful, far too cheap, strongly covers for the supposed weakness of the Seeker class and breaks class identity. Archaic Glyphs (Guiding Stones) is the first card (alongside Monstrous Transformation) that I would actually put on the Banned part of the taboo list - it's hard to overstate just how useless and bored you can feel if the seeker can collect every clue on the board and complete every act by themselves. And Ancient Stone (Knowledge of the Elders) provides a thoroughly unacceptable amount of testless damage (again, for Seekers who are supposedly vulnerable in combat) at a thoroughly unacceptable price. If the thinking was that the need to perform a mini-quest to get the upgrade somehow balances them, it does not - the game is no less broken, and the other players no less overshadowed, because you had to waste a couple of actions three scenarios ago.

So what's my beef with the interpreted Dream Diary? That Response - at the start of your turn, you return Essence of the Dream to your hand for free. Looking at it one way, this isn't the end of the world - Unexpected Courage is the most middle-of-the-road card in the game, and presumably any given card in your deck is going to be as worthwhile as UC on average, and 1 card draw every turn isn't an atrociously overpowered effect, as Arcane Initiate and Lucky Cigarette Case show. However, a 2-wild card is always very useful. Something like Encyclopedia costs the same, requires an action (or Daisy's extra action) to use and gives you +2 to a skill for the turn (better if you're using the same skill repeatedly, but about the same if you only need to use that skill once). You get a no-questions-asked +2 to any one test you make, every round, with no extra setup needed, and you can pass it off to a friend if you want. I know that Seekers got the short straw with the exhaust-for-boost assets with Quick Study, but Dream Diary makes Well Prepared feel kind of anaemic. And that's before looking at the kickers on the various Dream Diaries - Explorer gives you an extra 2 wild if you are on a 4+ shroud location, which is relatively common but inconsistent; Child gives you the 2 wild if you have 8+ cards in hand, and Madman gives you the bonus if you're engaged with an enemy. These effects are not easy to achieve, but having a 4-wild skill in hand every round is ridiculous - people base entire builds around using the Desperate cards that provide the same bonus and require huge amounts of setup.

However, on reflection, I don't know if Dream Diary is so over-the-top as to sit in the same benighted halls as the Acidic Ichor, Guiding Stones and Knowledge of the Elders. It requires a hand slot and 2 resources, and the boost it gives is solid but not game-shattering. The kickers for the Diaries are hard to achieve and flavourful, and the person who has the easiest time with the uninterpreted Dream Diary - Daisy Walker - already has Encyclopedia to sort of fill the same niche, though if she has her Tote Bag out, there's no harm in having both. Perhaps it's just that seekers have such an array of overpowered and undercosted cards already that this seems a little above the curve. And additionally, there's not much benefit in having two copies out, as you only have a single Essence of the Dream (at least, by the only interpretation of the Bonded rules that makes sense - I hope the next FAQ entry has exhaustive Bonded and "as if you are at that location" clarifications), and the second copy has half a wild icon so is pretty much wasted as a commit - you could play two different versions and get the extra wild under two different sets of circumstances (or even double up), but that's really not worth the cost, time and hand slots.

And I do really like the niche it fills - Dreams of an Explorer is the obvious choice for most players but requires finagling about what locations you're on (excellent for Pathfinders and above all Ursula). Dreams of a Child is part of the cards-in-hand archetype that is emerging, and is one I really like - having 8 cards in hand is hard to consistently achieve, but if you do, you will get a huge added benefit from the Dream Diary. And Dreams of a Madman requires an engaged enemy which is something Seekers generally want to avoid - though an Evasion-focused Ursula is likely to benefit from that, and Joe Diamond obviously likes fighting enemies (but then, he has hand slot issues unless only using a single one-handed weapon, since the Dream Diary isn't a Tool - maybe a Bandolier is in order, which in turn massively reduces the Diary's efficiency) - and if nothing else, the extra boost is online when you need it most, to evade or otherwise deal with an enemy trying to eat your face. Obviously, they're wonderful for Minh with her skill focus, but she already has so many toys to play with; on the other hand, a skill-based Minh deck tends not to need much exp or resources so can easily afford to pick up the Diary.

The mechanical flavour of these cards is top-notch - I love that manifesting the dreams of different dreamers is powerful in different ways. The art is the same prosaic picture as the level 0 version and, like the other identified/translated cards, doesn't seem to change at all across the variants - shame, because I liked the idea of the art changing with the multiclass cards.

Haste:

This is potentially a huge effect. It's similar in a way to Double, Double, being a Rogue asset that takes up a spell slot and gives you a big extra bonus for playing in a certain way. If you do the same thing twice in a row, you can do so a third time for free. Due to the way it specifies action "types", special actions of a certain type will count as that action type, so if you investigate once with Lockpicks and once manually, you can do a third Investigate action for free, and if you shoot twice with a Lupara you can then get any other Fight action in (we know that you can use the extra action for non-basic versions of the same action, e.g. Fight actions printed on cards, because it is structured the same way as Ursula's free Investigate). But here's a rules question for you: If you activate the Action -> ability on a weapon which then has the Fight designator, is that still an Activate action? Normally, activating any Action ability is an Activate action, so does the Fight designator override that and turn it into a Fight action, or is it both a Fight action and an Investigate action? Can I shoot twice with a Derringer and then investigate with a Flashlight for free? Inquiring minds want to know, and the rules do not support either interpretation over the other.

I'm kind of surprised it's "limit 1 per investigator" rather than Exceptional like Double, Double - I suppose it's a less impactful card (Leo de Luca gives you an extra action no questions asked every round, for instance) but still, feels weird and for the cost, it's extremely powerful for the right investigator, especially as it takes up an Arcane slot which is not much contested by most rogues - however, I suspect that it might end up being decent for anyone, since there's enough situations where it'll get you extra actions (need to move 3 times? Play 3 cards in 1 turn? Work on a repeatable objective like "parley the person several times"?) to make it worth the investment even if you aren't getting the bonus all the time, and by allowing extra actions in an uncontested slot it kind of unshackles rogues from Leo de Luca.

So who are the right investigators? It is very potent for investigators who are likely to perform the same action a lot, obviously, but many rogues don't do so much - take a big money Preston build, he'll have one big test a round with Well Connected and then otherwise be moving about or playing events - he could put his inheritance into Streetwise but then the third investigate action will be very weak - could take it to fail with Take Heart and/or Look What I Found, or investigate multiple times in a row with a Flashlight on a low-shroud location, but that's hardly worth the deck slot, cost or exp. The same applies for most other rogues, since they tend to be generalists, and most Sefina builds should stay a million miles away and use her Arcane slots for Mystic spells or Double, Double - getting to take a third Play action for 3 events in one round might occasionally help but not for the cost or opportunity cost. However, investigation Finn or a fighty Tony or Leo, especially if they're using something like Switchblade (2) or .45 Thompson to make lots of medium attacks (rather than Lightning Gun or Lupara to make a few huge attacks), could get a lot of mileage out of Haste. Wendy isn't likely to want to take the same action three times in a row often enough to be worth it since she's a generalist problem-solver. The art seems to show Dexter Drake, which makes a certain amount of sense, and would indicate that he has access to level 2 rogue (probably Mystic 5/Rogue 2), but ironically I think he wants it least of all - those arcane slots will have far better options even with his investigator ability, and Mystics don't often take the same action three times in a row unless they're investigating with Sixth Sense or unloading on a boss with Shrivelling. Between this and Swift Reload, I really look forward to revisiting Leo Anderson.

The mechanical flavour is...uninspiring. It's an extra action that you have magic for, or something. It's very uninteresting in that regard. The same is true of the art; it doesn't impress me or particularly repel me. I get what it's going for.

Daredevil:

I've kind of gone into this card in depth earlier, and my opinion hasn't changed much. There's broadly two ways to approach this card - the first is that if you only have one Rogue skill in your deck and you really want to see it (the most likely candidates being Double or Nothing or All In), Daredevil is sort of an extra copy of those skills - you commit Daredevil, and then you either find the other Rogue skill in your deck, or a second Daredevil which will in turn find that other Rogue skill while giving you another icon and thinning your deck. The second is as part of a plenty-of-skills deck, such as a Jenny Barnes with loads of skill cards or Wendy Adams filling up on the various rogue skills to supplement the Survivor resource and action economy, or just Finn taking all the Rogue skills and nothing else, where it's basically a gamble - you commit Daredevil and you find one of your many rogue skills, and you get an extra +1 into the bargain from the wild on Daredevil - you might not know what you're going to find, but the majority of Rogue skills are generally very solid and Daredevil specifies that it only counts cards that can be committed to the test, so no Hatchet Man being wasted on an Investigate test - just make sure you have the resources to put into your "Watch This!" if you have that in your deck.

Is it worth using? This is very much either a combo card or a luxury card. If you're playing a build that relies on one skill card and one skill card alone - big money decks that use All In on their huge Well Connected/Money Talks tests to tear through their decks, for example - it's a worthwhile inclusion once the rest of your deck is set up. If you have a load of Rogue skill cards and like the idea of being a gambler, you could probably get use for it, but it's never going to be a cornerstone of your deck and the exp cost is substantial (this really should have been 1 exp, or better yet Myriad). A word of warning - I would never ever take this in a deck that also included Double or Nothing, unless DoN was the only other Rogue skill card in the deck - if you're hoping to find a Quick Thinking or something and instead get Double or Nothing, you could ruin your day. There's very little in the way of investigator-specific synergy to talk about - it's not a Search effect so it doesn't trigger Research and Mandy doesn't care (not that she can take it at 2 exp). It's a card you take when you're running out of stuff to spend exp on, and rogues have plenty of things to spend exp on.

I think this is ultimately a little underpowered. I am genuinely surprised this isn't Myriad since it seems like a perfect fit - both to allow you to run three copies in a lots-of-skills deck for plenty of fun, and to enable you to include it as the only Rogue skill in your deck and have it essentially be 3 wild and deck thinning. It would also make the exp cost more manageable. I can't in good conscience recommend this card unless you're running the aforementioned single-rogue-skill combo decks.

Shame because the art is awesome. Desperately flying away from a horrible monster in a biplane while your tailgunner tries to bring it down? Peak pulp. Flavour text is kind of unremarkable though.

Empower Self (Acuity/Alacrity/Stamina):

Now this is a really interesting card. Empower Self has three versions, one for each non-Willpower skill, and comes with two effects - one that allows you to ignore the willpower substitution for the relevant skill on card effects (so you could turn Storm of Spirits into a Combat test, Mists of R'lyeh into an Agility test, and Sixth Sense into an Intellect test), and one that exhausts for +2 to the relevant skill, as well as the Myriad keyword, text limiting you to 1 of each version in your deck, and text allowing all 3 versions to occupy a single Arcane slot.

So it's basically there for mystics to use their Arcane slots to not concentrate on Willpower. The ability to not substitute in Willpower is absolutely fascinating - if you're playing Marie Lambeau with magnifying glasses and Dr Milan and no willpower boosts, you can investigate with Sixth Sense using your superior Intellect instead of your lower Willpower, and also get to use your intellect for your extra Spell-only action. If you're playing Diana Stanley and ignoring your willpower, you could still take Shrivelling (5) as a big, 3-damage attack and Rite of Seeking (4) as a big, 3-clue investigate and still use your Combat boosted by your Beat Cop and Ace of Swords and your Intellect boosted by Alice Luxley.

However - there's a big problem with that, namely that you can only have one copy of each in your deck. So you can't really build around using Shrivelling with combat, since you need to play Empower Self and Shrivelling - and if you need Empower Self for Shrivelling to work, you might as well say that Shrivelling costs an extra card, 3 resources and action to play (i.e. is not remotely worth it). Empower Self isn't Spell-traited, so you can't search it out with Word of Command or Arcane Initiate so you're pretty much just at the mercy of topdecking a single card in your deck.

The second ability is where most of the value of this card lies - you can exhaust Empower Self for +2 to the relevant skill for 1 test. That's essentially a reusable skill - and very solid particularly since Mystics lack for stat boosts aside from Willpower and to a lesser extent Intellect. If you take all 3 copies of Empower Self and play them all, you can get +2 to any of the Skills, and use multiple copies for different tests. This plays nicely with Mystic builds that use non-spells to investigate, evade or to a lesser extent fight. However, one of the big benefits of doing so is to open up an Arcane slot, so you can run Scrying or something and not need to run Shrivelling + Rite of Seeking - so using up an arcane slot to not need to use an arcane slot isn't a benefit. It's also pretty expensive, at 3 resources and an action to play each copy. Being Myriad, you can get all 3 variants for 2 exp and put them all in a single Arcane slot, but unless you want all three variants, the savings from Myriad drop off sharply.

Ultimately, therefore, this card has a bit of an identity crisis - it feels like it wants you to build around it, but you only get 1 copy of each variant in your deck. It wants to support unconventional builds, but it's slow and offers relatively situational bonuses. It's very much a niche card. Perhaps it will be good for some future investigator - perhaps someone who has a focus on Ritual cards, or the fan theory of Lily Chen as a guardian 5/mystic 2. But for now there's relatively few builds that really want it. Akachi at least has the Combat and Agility to make use of it, and will likely run Enchanted Blade, but she wants her Arcane slots for other things - not really a good choice for her, especially given her existing economy issues. The aforementioned intellect Marie is still a workable concept, but you'd basically be building as a very unconventional seeker-like build, with both your Arcane slots taken up leaving no room for Shrivelling to defend yourself, and no hand slots to spare for Sign Magick; very janky but I'd love to see it in action. Currently the only investigator who actually wants to use Empower Self is a Diana who doesn't care about her Willpower - she has 3 in all non-willpower stats so can use all 3 versions, only wants 1 other Arcane slot for Enchanted Blade (3), and might even get a bit of use out of the part of the card that allows you to ignore the Willpower switchover on cards, in order to use Storm of Spirits; you'd run Spectral Razor, Read the Signs and Ethereal Form for sure, and lean heavily into Guardian, potentially picking up Ever Vigilant to help get all the assets into play; each of the Empower Self variants has double matching icons so they're good targets for Well Prepared; you might even, once in a blue moon, use the "ignore the willpower instead of x" part of the card and then put it under your investigator card for the economy boost, but that seems an extremely niche application. At first glance I thought it might be good for Patrice, as good Patrice builds end up using all 4 skills to some extent, but the extra setup and high resource cost just make it too inflexible and slow for her.

Overall, though, it's just not really good enough. It feels like this should be Fast, you know? 3 resources is already a hefty cost, after all - getting all three versions into play is 3 cards, 9 resources, 3 actions, for a middling benefit.

The art is OK, I feel like that's meant to be Akachi again? But I'm not sure. The mechanical flavour is weird but I do like the idea of channeling magic to make your body stronger rather than to blast stuff.

Twila Katherine Price:

This ally is really good. I think she's on the cusp of being overpowered and could probably stand to cost 5 exp, and that's before considering some of the absurd combo potential she offers. With 2 sanity and 1 health, she's pretty awful for soak, but her effect - exhaust to put a charge on an asset that you've spent a charge from - is utterly incredible. At its base, that's more or less unlimited use of Shrivelling or Rite of Seeking if you restrict yourself to 1/round - as long as you don't spend the last charge when she's exhausted, she can keep your Rite of Seeking ticking over indefinitely, which is huge value since you usually only want to use Rite of Seeking 1/round anyway. I am actually quite surprised by the design here - mystics were previously a balance between extremely powerful effects, but limited uses - Sixth Sense in the last cycle was the first card to really remove the charge limitation from the situation (Wither was too weak to make the same impact), and this is here to do the same for all the existing charge-based spells. In so doing, Twila devalues previous recharging tools - like Recharge and Enraptured - and makes Mystics far stronger, by eliminating one of their core weaknesses.

But beyond that core power of keeping your attack and investigation assets constantly charged, she also works in conjunction with other cards - a token manipulation build can use Grotesque Statue once a round for free; you could do a strange (though not particularly potent) build with Decorated Skull, needing only one charge on it in order to slowly build up a decent economic advantage; Luke Robinson can use his Gate Box every single round forever (and therefore never, ever need worry about drawing an enemy or location connections), and he can also assemble the Pendant of the Queen and then keep any enemy, even an Elite, even a god, exhausted forever; you could keep Scrying (3) charged up forever since you only need to use it 1/round, and have unprecedented control over the encounter deck; and you can cancel a nearly unlimited number of attacks with Suggestion (4). Thankfully she doesn't work with Seal of the Seventh Sign (since that has its charges removed, not spent), so you can't keep the Auto-Fail sealed forever. EDIT: Now that I have my pack and am not working off of scans online I noticed that Twila specifies a "Spell" asset, so the Gate Box and Pendant interactions are a bust, thankfully. Suggestion and Scrying still work, however! 

Basically every mystic wants this card - unless you're not using uses (charges) cards for some crazy reason - but she's particularly absurd for Luke Robinson, and Akachi might not care so much since she gets extra charges as standard and her signature asset lets her bounce cards back to hand in order to replay and recharge them.

Essentially, I think the design here is far too good and the possible interactions may not have been properly considered - in particular, the shenanigans that she can provide for Luke Robinson are utterly absurd and threaten to trivialise parts of the game. I think she probably should have had charges, even a relatively generous amount, to make her a magical version of Venturer. The unlimited effect she provides is way too good - I don't like the way this card is designed at all, though I'll have to see it in play before thinking about whether to add it to our unofficial banlist.

It's a shame because I love seeing cards from the old Call of Cthulhu LCG, and I was hoping to see Twila ever since we saw Gregory Gry (the short version is that the CoC Dreamlands cycle sees them as a doomed pair of lovebirds). Though really, I think they should have used the art from the second version of the card, since it's far cooler - I guess they were leaning in to the flavour that she's returned to Earth in that rather excellent flavour text, so they didn't want to use the "doomed to the Dreamlands" art, but still...

A Glimmer of Hope:

Now this card is extremely hard to evaluate. The baseline is that if you aren't certain if you should use it, you shouldn't use it - it provides a very specific and niche effect, so throwing it into a deck won't help out much.

You can spend an action and a resource, if at least one copy of A Glimmer of Hope is in your discard pile, to return all copies of AGoH from the discard pile to your hand. AGoH can't be played when in your hand - its only uses are to commit to tests for its single wild icon, or to be "a card", i.e. something that you can discard for effects, and that fills up your hand. So you need to be playing an investigator who regularly needs to refill their hand, who has a use for essentially blank cards, and lacks the card draw to easily refill their hand.

The obvious choices, therefore, are Wendy Adams and "Ashcan" Pete. Both investigators have an inherent investigator ability that allows them to discard a card for a substantial benefit. I'd say that Wendy's is the stronger ability in a vacuum, but Wendy's signature weakness will completely ruin AGoH by removing her entire discard pile from the game, so it's a bit of a risk to run on her. "Ashcan" Pete often runs a very cheap deck, potentially even Dark Horse, so the 1 resource cost isn't a huge deal, and some "Ashcan" builds are all about using his ability (e.g. David Renfield decks that generate absurd amounts of resources), so having lots of fodder to discard is often a good thing - I think this card will find a place in a lot of "Ashcan" Pete builds. For other survivors, it's a bit more niche - Cornered allows any survivor to get good value out of discarding cards, but you need to put the combo together; at least the Myriad keyword means that it will only cost 1 exp to add all three copies of A Glimmer of Hope to your deck once you have purchased Cornered. Otherwise, I guess it could be discard fodder for Mists of R'lyeh or Scroll of Prophecies, but I don't think that it's worth the hassle for that very niche application. I do like the idea of A Glimmer of Hope as insurance against Amnesia, by allowing you to quickly refill your hand (even if with bad cards). AGoH is an odd one for Minh Thi Phan - she likes having Wild icons, and a Minh deck with a copy or two of Grisly Totem can turn even a single wild icon into a big boost. She also likes having lots of cards to pass to friendly skill tests and might even run Cornered. However, it has been my experience that Minh decks already have more card draw than they know what to do with, and are far better off just drawing more useful cards from her deck. The one exception is if you are explicitly building around the cards-in-hand archetype that is emerging - with Higher Education, Curiosity, Extensive Research and Dream Diary (Dreams of a Child), she might like being able to fill her hand with dross just to keep her above the cards-in-hand threshold, and Dream-Enhancing Elixir will make sure she isn't likely to need to discard for having too big a hand. Maybe not the strongest build, but definitely a fun way to go with Minh.

Now, to talk about Patrice. Looking at it one way, A Glimmer of Hope is a terrible card for Patrice - she fills her hand with 5 cards every turn, so spending an action and a resource to get 3 more - that she can't keep in hand after this turn finishes - is a really bad deal. A Minh, Wendy or "Ashcan" deck might constantly use A Glimmer of Hope and return the cards to hand. However, I think that it could still perform an excellent role for Patrice - in the form of emergency insurance. Patrice is by no means guaranteed to draw 5 cards every turn; if Patrice has the Watcher from Another Dimension in hand, and/or draws another weakness, she has fewer useful cards in her hand. Whereas most investigators would want to use A Glimmer of Hope as a proactive tool, Patrice would instead only want to use it if caught short. Normally, that's not a great use of deck space, but Patrice has 42 cards to play with and draws up to 5 a turn, so the initial investment is far less onerous. Between A Glimmer of Hope, Improvised Weapon, Impromptu Barrier and Winging It, Patrice can have combat, evasion, investigation and discard fodder available to her regardless of what she draws in a given turn - and anything that can be used from discard is potentially useful to her as it increases her turn-by-turn consistency by giving her options that don't depend on her topdecking luck. The action cost is pretty substantial, but if she draws a hand with cards to commit, and has Cornered x2 and her Violin in play, she could happily get through 8 cards in just 2 actions. However, I need to test it out in play to be certain - while the theory of why A Glimmer of Hope could be great for Patrice is sound, the fact is that the actual effectiveness of the card might end up being so mediocre for her that it still isn't worth it - certainly it might end up being wasted space in many scenarios.

The mechanical flavour is esoteric but I really like the design, even if not many decks should use it - the art is also quite evocative.

Expeditious Retreat:

My initial read on this was that it is pretty meh in comparison to Brute Force and Sharp Vision, but I thought the same about Impromptu Barrier and it ended up performing some truly clutch plays. The inevitable third part of the "basic tests rock" Survivor skills, Expeditious Retreat is curious, because the "basic evade test" restriction is barely ever going to matter - most non-basic evade tests are found on Mystic cards that turn it into a Willpower test anyway. The main thing to watch out for is that it won't combine with Stealth, Impromptu Barrier, Bait and Switch or Ethereal Form. The kicker allows you to evade a second enemy (can be Elite) at your location, which does not have to be engaged with you - we know from Impromptu Barrier that this can be an extremely potent effect. However, it does mean that the effect scales heavily by player count - a solo investigator is far less likely to have multiple enemies to evade than someone in a 4-player game.

Far more than the other two "basic test" skills, there's two different ways to evaluate Expeditious Retreat, because the three agility icons for an evade test can be extremely valuable by themselves, whereas for basic Investigate and especially basic Fight tests, the 3 icons more or less just mean that there's a consolation prize for succeeding but not hitting the 2-point kicker, in many circumstances. Many times where you just want to escape from an enemy, you will be happy to get +3 to the Evade test and not care about whether you get a second free evade. This gives Expeditious Retreat a degree of flexibility that it seems to lack at first glance.

So who wants it? Clearly, anyone who likes evading should consider it - so Wendy Adams and Rita Young. Ways to peel enemies off other investigators are golden for them, and a key part of making Evade a better option than it first appears. Additionally, it works very well with the suceed-by-two suite of cards - with the other two "basic tests" cards, this was a bit of a curiosity - Brute Force Tony Morgan might get his Lucky Cigarette Case and Quick Thinking into the bargain - but Evade tests are another story entirely, as Pickpocket Wendy Adams can get huge amounts of money with 2 copies of Pickpocketing (2), Lucky Cigarette Case, maybe "Watch This!" and some poor monster to rob; sad that no actual Rogue can take Expeditious Retreat aside from Tony Morgan and Preston Fairmont, who really don't have much use for it, and it's a crying shame that Finn Edwards can't take Survivor level 1, as he would love both this card and Sharp Vision. Beyond that, the three icons makes it a potential choice for "Ashcan" Pete and even William Yorick, Mandy Thompson and Agnes Baker, all of whom have base 3 Evade - if they're rocking Cornered or maybe an "Ashcan" Pete Yaotl/Desperate build, they could even make it up to the +2 success for the kicker. Unlike Brute Force and even Sharp Vision, I don't think that Patrice wants this card - the effect is very situational, which isn't good for an investigator who can't keep cards in hand, and she can use Impromptu Barrier from discard better than almost anyone without needing to worry about using it the turn it's drawn - she also isn't likely to invest much into Agility except as a byproduct of having Peter Sylvestre (2) for a more spellcaster build. However, it will be excellent for certain Minh builds with certain team compositions - with these three "basic tests" skills and her unique asset, she'll be able to let any investigator anywhere on the map make clutch attacks, investigations and evade tests, which is a huge boon.

I kind of wish it had a different kicker effect, simply because it's one we've seen elsewhere, but I guess there's only so many possibilities for Evade.

The art is just sort of fine - I like the background, but the foreground doesn't do it for me. The mechanical flavour is a little harder to grasp than the other two "basic test" skills as it's not quite clear how 'running away quickly' helps you to trip up a second enemy and pull your friend out of hot water. Interesting that they used the D&D spell name, but not on an actual spell, too.

Edited by Allonym

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I also love Heroic Rescue's art, it's one of my favorite pieces. It is a significant reason (though by no means the only reason) that I'm exited to try out the new version.

 

Regarding Haste and action types, here is the relevant rules text as far as I can tell:

Activate Action
"Activate" is an action an investigator may take during his or her turn in the investigation phase.
When this action is taken, the investigator initiates an ability that specifies one or more -> icons as part of its ability cost. The number of -> icons in the ability's cost determines how many actions the investigator is required to use for this activate action. When performing an activate action, all of that action's costs are simultaneously paid. Then, the consequences of that action resolve.
An investigator is permitted to activate abilities from the following sources:

  • A card in play and under his or her control. This includes his or her investigator card.
  • A scenario card that is in play and at the same location as the investigator. This includes the location itself, encounter cards placed at that location, and all encounter cards in the threat area of any investigator at that location.
  • The current act or current agenda card.

Play Action
"Play" is an action an investigator may take during his or her turn in the investigation phase.
When an investigator takes this action, that investigator selects an asset or event card in his or her hand, pays its resource cost, and plays it

And from the FAQ:

'If I play an event with a Fight ability, like Backstab, does it provoke attacks of opportunity?

No. Abilities with a bold action designator (like Fight, Evade or Investigate) count as an action of that type. In this case, since Backstab counts as a Fight action, no attacks of opportunity are made, because Fight actions do not provoke attacks of opportunity. The same goes for Fight abilities on assets, like .45 Automatic.'

'Does the ability on Ursula Down's allow me to take an investigate action on an asset or event card?

Yes. Ursula’s reaction allows you to take any investigate action, including those performed via the activate action or via the play action.'

 

When you use a gun or play a Backstab, you are certainly taking an Activate or a Play action. One could interpret the statement: "Abilities with a bold action designator (like Fight, Evade or Investigate) count as an action of that type" to mean that they count only as that type for effects that care about types of action, but absent an explicit statement I favor the interpretation that they count as both.

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One use for Daredevil would be to build a deck with Double or Nothing and Quick Thinking as the only other Rogue skills; the point would be to combine them and reap two extra actions on top of Double's other benefits. You only need to have a copy of any two of your three Rogue skills in your hand to make the combo work since Daredevil, if it is one of the two, find the third.

The awkward thing is that this combo relies on the fact that both Double or Nothing and Quick Thinking have the text "Max 1 committed per skill test." And Quick Thinking doesn't... unless you are using Taboos. Luckily, I think this is balanced out by the fact that the combo costs six more experience with Taboos (since Doubles cost three each).

In theory you could do the same thing with All In and Double, but that's a very hefty experience investment and would often result in overfilling your hand and losing cards in upkeep. A more sensible one-of All In, two-of Daredevil, and no other Rogue skills seems more appealing.

 

A peculiarity of Seeker 'side-quest' cards is that as long as one investigator completes the side-quest, anyone in the campaign can take the upgrade, although they do need to have the lower level version in their deck to upgrade from. I mention this because Daisy has a very easy time "interpreting the dreams" but the upgrade has no synergy with her ability and I'm not sure she wants it. (I'm not sure whether to consider hand slots more or less precious in Daisy than other Seekers with respect to Tomes: she has her Tote Bag and the tools to find it, but getting it into play is a non-trivial ask and without it she's dealing with the Necronomicon and the fact there are even more hand slot items she wants than most Seekers so.)

Of course, it's an unusual team that includes Daisy Walker and another investigator with level 3 Seeker access. Lola comes to mind, but the Dream Diary doesn't play nice with role restrictions or with Crisis of Identity, and non-neutral skills become very difficult to use in Lola's hands. But perhaps somewhere out there a cluver Daisy and a Calamitous Blade-"Dreams of a Madman"-Combat Joe Diamond are struggling together against the Mythos.

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I can't recall where reading it, but cards with the bold action designators count as both types of actions.

E.g. playing Backstab is both a Play and Fight action.  Using the => Ability on anything with a Bold Designator is both an Activate and <Whatever> action.

So, triggering Haste will be fairly easy to achieve.

 

I also assume that any FAST actions don't count.  For example, you could Fight an enemy, play Shortcut to move, then Fight again and this still counts as 2 consecutive Fight actions (since using Shortcut to move is not an action).

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4 hours ago, Faranim said:

I can't recall where reading it, but cards with the bold action designators count as both types of actions.

E.g. playing Backstab is both a Play and Fight action.  Using the => Ability on anything with a Bold Designator is both an Activate and <Whatever> action.

So, triggering Haste will be fairly easy to achieve.

 

I also assume that any FAST actions don't count.  For example, you could Fight an enemy, play Shortcut to move, then Fight again and this still counts as 2 consecutive Fight actions (since using Shortcut to move is not an action).

If you can find a ruling of some kind to that effect, I would be grateful, since that would sort things out. Neither the rules reference nor the FAQ are much help; it's definitely the case that you use the "activate" action to perform the "fight/investigate/parley/whatever" action printed on a card, but by itself that isn't conclusive. For what it's worth, I definitely think the answer is that in so doing you are both performing a "fight" action and an "activate" action, but that's just a feeling so far. 

I kind of hope I'm wrong, too, since I would always want to err on the side of keeping action gain cards on the niche side, and the more obvious ruling makes the card less interesting by making it too easy to trigger. 

Edit: I also didn't intend to start some kind of debate on the matter with my post! As you may be able to tell from its unwieldy length, I've been working on the player card reviews on and off for a day in breaks from work, and didn't notice the Haste discourse until I posted...

Edited by Allonym

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7 hours ago, Spritz Tea said:

One use for Daredevil would be to build a deck with Double or Nothing and Quick Thinking as the only other Rogue skills; the point would be to combine them and reap two extra actions on top of Double's other benefits. You only need to have a copy of any two of your three Rogue skills in your hand to make the combo work since Daredevil, if it is one of the two, find the third.

The awkward thing is that this combo relies on the fact that both Double or Nothing and Quick Thinking have the text "Max 1 committed per skill test." And Quick Thinking doesn't... unless you are using Taboos. Luckily, I think this is balanced out by the fact that the combo costs six more experience with Taboos (since Doubles cost three each).

In theory you could do the same thing with All In and Double, but that's a very hefty experience investment and would often result in overfilling your hand and losing cards in upkeep. A more sensible one-of All In, two-of Daredevil, and no other Rogue skills seems more appealing.

 

A peculiarity of Seeker 'side-quest' cards is that as long as one investigator completes the side-quest, anyone in the campaign can take the upgrade, although they do need to have the lower level version in their deck to upgrade from. I mention this because Daisy has a very easy time "interpreting the dreams" but the upgrade has no synergy with her ability and I'm not sure she wants it. (I'm not sure whether to consider hand slots more or less precious in Daisy than other Seekers with respect to Tomes: she has her Tote Bag and the tools to find it, but getting it into play is a non-trivial ask and without it she's dealing with the Necronomicon and the fact there are even more hand slot items she wants than most Seekers so.)

Of course, it's an unusual team that includes Daisy Walker and another investigator with level 3 Seeker access. Lola comes to mind, but the Dream Diary doesn't play nice with role restrictions or with Crisis of Identity, and non-neutral skills become very difficult to use in Lola's hands. But perhaps somewhere out there a cluver Daisy and a Calamitous Blade-"Dreams of a Madman"-Combat Joe Diamond are struggling together against the Mythos.

An excellent point with regard to Daredevil and taking advantage of "Max. 1 committed per test", but I don't think it's a good approach for an actual deck - the only time it works is if you have 1x Quick Thinking or DoN in hand and 1x Daredevil in hand - if you draw Daredevil without either of the others, it's a pretty dead draw since you can't easily guarantee finding the "right" skill with it, until you then draw one of your other skills - and the benefit of Daredevil isn't so strong as to be worth that risk and the deck space.

I've become very interested in doing "mono-class" runs, e.g. 4 Guardians, so a 4 Seeker run with Identified Strange Solutions or whatever could be chaotic, but I have no interest in the Seeker class outside of a handful of Support Minh builds so I'll leave that particular gimmick to others. But for one person identifying for multiple people, there's always the possibility of identifying Ancient Stone for a friendly Carolyn Fern, or identifying Archaic Glyphs for Akachi or Marie Lambeau...

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13 hours ago, Spritz Tea said:

I believe that triggering Haste off its own Play action (after another Play action) is allowed. 

"[reaction] After you perform the same type of action twice in a row, exhaust Haste: Take another action of that type again."

By the time you would trigger the ability, Haste is in play, and you have satisfied its condition by taking two Play actions in a row. It is a similar interaction to using Uncage the Soul to play Double, Double before triggering Double, Double to replay Uncage the soul -- I have never seen the legality of that interaction disputed.

Given that we have cards with reactions that trigger on themselves entering play, I suppose that does work.

Is the "again" at the end of that ability redundant?  "Take another one again"?

Before the question is raised, free triggered abilities with action designators do not count as that action.  This came up recently and got an official answer, posted in this thread

Edited by CSerpent

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12 hours ago, Allonym said:

An excellent point with regard to Daredevil and taking advantage of "Max. 1 committed per test", but I don't think it's a good approach for an actual deck - the only time it works is if you have 1x Quick Thinking or DoN in hand and 1x Daredevil in hand - if you draw Daredevil without either of the others, it's a pretty dead draw since you can't easily guarantee finding the "right" skill with it, until you then draw one of your other skills - and the benefit of Daredevil isn't so strong as to be worth that risk and the deck space.

Well, if you have 1x Daredevil stranded in your hand there are four possible draws that activate it — or rather there are five because, now that I think about it, 2x Daredevil also works — which doesn't seem too bad given Rogue's strong card-draw and the fact that DoN tends to wait around in hand anyway for the right time to be played. If you draw three or four of the skills then Daredevil is still pretty useful — it's another copy of one of your skills that also thins your deck and has an extra icon or two. 

But perhaps my sense of the likelihood of finding specific cards has been distorted by playing too many Mr "Rook" decks recently — three in a row (and none were Seekers)…

13 hours ago, CSerpent said:

Is the "again" at the end of that ability redundant?  "Take another one again"?

I didn't notice that, even as I was transcribing it. But now it seems really glaring...

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On 2/4/2020 at 6:01 AM, Spritz Tea said:

A peculiarity of Seeker 'side-quest' cards is that as long as one investigator completes the side-quest, anyone in the campaign can take the upgrade, although they do need to have the lower level version in their deck to upgrade from. I mention this because Daisy has a very easy time "interpreting the dreams" but the upgrade has no synergy with her ability and I'm not sure she wants it. (I'm not sure whether to consider hand slots more or less precious in Daisy than other Seekers with respect to Tomes: she has her Tote Bag and the tools to find it, but getting it into play is a non-trivial ask and without it she's dealing with the Necronomicon and the fact there are even more hand slot items she wants than most Seekers so.)

Hmm - that seems a wee bit dodgy. Has anyone confirmed with the developers that this is the intended way for this to happen?

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15 minutes ago, dysartes said:

Hmm - that seems a wee bit dodgy. Has anyone confirmed with the developers that this is the intended way for this to happen?

I don't think I've seen such, but RAW, that's how it works.

This entry in the FAQ defines what "Record in your campaign log" requires:

Quote

“Record in your Campaign Log…”
Often the players will be instructed to record a key phrase in the Campaign Log. This should be written under “Campaign Notes” unless specified otherwise. Because the players may be instructed to check the Campaign Log for this phrase at a later time in the campaign, the indicated phrase should be recorded as it appears, without alteration. For example: If the players are instructed to record in the Campaign Log that “the investigators were four hours late,” this shouldn’t be rewritten as “the investigators were pretty late,” because the exact number of hours might be important in a later scenario

So what you record for identified/translated cards a) is in a common area of the log for everyone and b) must be recorded exactly as written (i.e. "you identified...", not "Daisy identified...").  That means the required phrase is there when anyone checks it to validate the upgrades.

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I don’t find it that dodgy. If your researcher translates some ancient glyphs but the mystic is more interested in what the glyphs actually do, I don’t see why you couldn’t share the info with her. Pretty sure the mystic would still have to have the lvl 0 version in their deck for a scenario before upgrading it though.

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2 hours ago, Soakman said:

Pretty sure the mystic would still have to have the lvl 0 version in their deck for a scenario before upgrading it though.

That's another one I don't think I've seen a ruling on.  But I've compared it to buying Adaptable and being able to use it right away, which has been ruled valid.

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2 hours ago, CSerpent said:

That's another one I don't think I've seen a ruling on.  But I've compared it to buying Adaptable and being able to use it right away, which has been ruled valid.

Well, I'm basing it off the fact that I don't think standalone decks at FFG events are permitted to have copies of things like Strange Solution: Acidic Ichor in them, but that could entirely be because you haven't yet identified them either.

I would, though, assume that  upgrade cards would be restricted to needing the lvl 0 first based off of rulings for Arcane Research. The upgrades like Strange Solution specifically use 'upgrade' as terminology on the leveled cards. Arcane research requires a card to be 'upgraded' from a lower lvl version to earn the extra xp. I really don't have a ruling or anything available though. I just know you can't pop Shriveling lvl 5 into a deck without Shriveling lvl 0 and subtract 2 from the xp cost (or even 1 for that matter) if you have Arcane Research.

Edited by Soakman

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1 hour ago, Soakman said:

Well, I'm basing it off the fact that I don't think standalone decks at FFG events are permitted to have copies of things like Strange Solution: Acidic Ichor in them, but that could entirely be because you haven't yet identified them either.

I would, though, assume that  upgrade cards would be restricted to needing the lvl 0 first based off of rulings for Arcane Research. The upgrades like Strange Solution specifically use 'upgrade' as terminology on the leveled cards. Arcane research requires a card to be 'upgraded' from a lower lvl version to earn the extra xp. I really don't have a ruling or anything available though. I just know you can't pop Shriveling lvl 5 into a deck without Shriveling lvl 0 and subtract 2 from the xp cost (or even 1 for that matter) if you have Arcane Research.

I don't see any ruling preventing you from, for instance, purchasing Shrivelling (0) for 1 experience and then replacing it with Shrivelling (3) immediately, reducing the upgrade cost by 2 using 2 copies of Arcane Research and therefore getting a net 1 exp discount on Shrivelling (3). 

 

No part of the rules seems to prohibit a player purchasing a card and then replacing that same card within the same "downtime". It must therefore be possible, absent a ruling to the contrary, to purchase the "Unidentified" version of a card and then immediately replace it with the "Identified" version of that card. 

The point regarding Standalone isn't relevant here, since "building" a deck and "upgrading" a deck are two distinct things, and upgrading only takes place during campaign play. 

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Huh. I guess my assumption is just an assumption maybe then. I would have though that to upgrade from a card, it would need to be present at the start of upgrading a deck.  I guess the efficiency of losing an xp if you don't have it in your deck already has usually prevented me from even being in this situation though (when it comes to arcane research). 

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12 hours ago, Soakman said:

I don’t find it that dodgy. If your researcher translates some ancient glyphs but the mystic is more interested in what the glyphs actually do, I don’t see why you couldn’t share the info with her. Pretty sure the mystic would still have to have the lvl 0 version in their deck for a scenario before upgrading it though.

Let's take our hypothetical four Seeker group here. In scenario 1, three of the decks each contain the base versions of one of Archaic Glyphs, Dream Diary and Strange Solution, while the fourth has agreed to use XP to take Ancient Stone after scenario 2. By the end of scenario 2, all four have been translated/deciphered/identified, giving each deck access to the upgraded versions of all four upgrade paths. 

OK, it means they have to buy the level 0 (or 1, in the case of Stone, but it works out at the same cost overall) version of the card they want before upgrading to the final form they're after, but that's a huge amount of flexibility gained compared to how a single Seeker would have to operate. Oh, and in the case of the Stone, they can have pooled their options to guarantee a high value gets recorded on the Campaign Log, making the upgraded cards more powerful.

Four seekers, each who can have their own upgraded Dream Diary (for all your wild symbol needs), who can all be packing Acidic Ichor (or a Solution of your choice - season to taste), who can be packing Guiding Stones, and who can all be weilding the Knowledge of the Elders...

Heck, even if they've all just taken Shrewd Analysis at deck creation - and why not, it's a free permanent - to get random upgraded versions of each at a decent XP discount, that's still pretty nuts.

You sure it doesn't seem that dodgy to you?

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