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Cycle V: The Dream-Eaters

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7 hours ago, Mimi61 said:

Moonstone and Patrice’s Violin. If she can get her violin into play first, she even gets a resource to discard it and help her pay for it. Scrounge for Supplies can get it back out of her discard pile if necessary.   Give her that, Hemispheric Map, Cornered and  Peter and her stat line becomes pretty solid. Then with all of her skill cards, movement through her deck and the stuff she can play from her discard pile, she becomes her own little symphony!

I got sucked into Lucid Dreaming for Mandy for the greedy myriad card grab. I put it into her deck and when it came up and ran smack into her weakness. Serves me right!

The .35 Winchester left me scratching my head too, but I don’t play that many guardians and when I do, rarely use firearms (as my misuse of swift reload proved). So I wasn’t sure if there was something great about that card I just didn’t see. Glad to know that there wasn’t.  And a Burglary upgrade seemed a little mystifying, but then I felt the same way about the Alchemical Transmutation upgrade.  

Sharp Vision looks very promising and I’m excited for Patrice to give it a whirl. 

Spectral Razor looks amazing and I’m with you, I was super happy to see Akachi, who I feel is a dark horse investigator, get some of the limelight. 
 

Three Aces made the rogue/seekers in our group cheer. With Dream Enhancing Serum, search cards and Mr Rook, they finally seem to have a good myriad card, but for the rogue/slash any other class investigators, what are the chances of finding them all? Rogues aren’t best known for their patience and long suffering.

For me, Extensive Research was the oddest card the whole bunch. It was the one I wanted your read on the most, because I couldn’t really see any real advantages. Even now while I’m playing Mandy, I don’t generally have exceedingly large hands. I wind up using my cards for tests or have to discard them because of encounter draws or location requirement events or something. I hadn’t considered it in terms of a Minh deck though and appreciate your thoughts. 

Moonstone is definitely great with Patrice's Violin (though you cannot rely on getting your Violin before you get Moonstone). Don't think it would make me run Scrounge For Supplies, though - part of the benefit of Moonstone is that you can play it without using any actions, so if you Scrounge for it, suddenly it costs you an action - but more than that, it would hopefully never hit your discard pile in the first place, as you'd play it when you discard it, so that would only be if you didn't have the resources to play it the turn you drew it or if it ate a Crypt Chill or something, which isn't enough of a niche to be worth adding a card to counter. You can really set up some awesome board states with Patrice but you need to avoid falling into the trap of concentrating too much on setting up great assets - I learned that the hard way with Carolyn Fern decks that contributed basically nothing for the first half of the game because they were trying too hard to create a perfect board state. Really makes Relic Hunter very attractive for Patrice, though - I think that 4-asset combo you listed is pretty much perfect, and would be good for using spells to attack and intellect to investigate.

For Three Aces, I've seen (and played) Wendy decks, Finn decks and Sefina decks that use Pickpocketing (2) and Lucky Cigarette Case to rip through a deck, and that's without even considering All In, which is truly absurd draw potential (double or nothing, All In, difficulty 0 test, cantrip skill commit, draw 12 cards...); of course, neither Finn nor Wendy can actually use All In but you see what I mean. Luckily, since Three Aces is an exp card, you can take it once you know you can use it - if your deck has gotten to the point where you're drawing through your entire deck, consider grabbing Three Aces after the next scenario; if not, you know it's not worth taking for a rogue.

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Scrounge has been kind of clutch for my Patrice a few times.  For example, I was able to bring back Lucky! for a must-pass test, and I ended up needing that.  For a very tactical, random character, it gives you some agency on what's in your hand.  It's great for the assets you didn't have the resources for and had to discard.  On average, it's "Search half your deck for any Level 0 card and draw it".  That's not bad for Level 0.   It will probably eventually go away, but I'm certainly not regretting it so far.

Here's a question though: is Scrounge unable to target level-less cards like the Violin and story assets?  Are they literally not Level 0 or is that just to indicate they can't be purchased?

Edited by CSerpent

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2 hours ago, CSerpent said:

Scrounge has been kind of clutch for my Patrice a few times.  For example, I was able to bring back Lucky! for a must-pass test, and I ended up needing that.  For a very tactical, random character, it gives you some agency on what's in your hand.  It's great for the assets you didn't have the resources for and had to discard.  On average, it's "Search half your deck for any Level 0 card and draw it".  That's not bad for Level 0.   It will probably eventually go away, but I'm certainly not regretting it so far.

Here's a question though: is Scrounge unable to target level-less cards like the Violin and story assets?  Are they literally not Level 0 or is that just to indicate they can't be purchased?

You cannot Scrounge for signature cards or story assets (or weaknesses, or Bonded cards, anything with the big blank semi-circle where level pips should go), since as you say, they aren't level 0; they have no level at all. 

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9 hours ago, Allonym said:

That's a great point about Word of Command + Mandy, it's still quite a situational interaction. Getting both copies of Shrivelling out of your deck is awesome, but often you will already want to have one copy in your opening hand.

 

13 hours ago, Allonym said:

Also, since Extensive Research is a 0 exp card, even if you do go Higher Education and lots of draw, there'll be a few scenarios before it comes online where you have a card you can't properly use - that isn't really worth the payoff. 

 

I had never even considered Word of Command for Mandy, since I was so busy  salivating after Lucid Dreaming to get all of her myriad cards out. (Segment of Onyx...) 

I was curious about the Hunch deck thing, because I never had a spectacular experience playing it, or Joe for that matter. Working a Hunch and No Stone Unturned were useful, but somehow the hunch deck wasn’t the boon I expected it to be. Norman’s ability, which has some similarities, played far better.  But then, I am admittedly no great strategist. Thats why your nose for strategy and compatible card builds is so interesting and helpful to me.

My Patrice deck, for which I used many of your thoughts, has been gold. I fell into the the heavy asset trap with her in my first build. I’d get multiple assets in my hand and had to bid all but one goodbye anyway, because I couldn’t afford them all. So the fat has been trimmed, but Moonstone and Relic Hunter were too good to pass up. Flare has also been very useful for finding Peter and paying less for him. I know it gets exiled, but he is key for her, so I count it worth it!  
And you never just shout into the void. We are all ears, even those of us out here still piping for Azathoth!

Edited by Mimi61

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On 1/10/2020 at 5:31 PM, Allonym said:

The art is just badass, too. (I am a sexy, suited god of war! ...how's that for a nerdy reference).

Are you talking about this, or that itself is just a reference to something else?

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3 hours ago, DarkFate said:

Btw, has there been a definitive answer as to whether stray cat works on Patrice's signature weakness?

I don't believe there has been a definitive answer.

My understanding is that Matt informally said that it works to someone, possibly on the Mythos Busters discord? The strategy section of the official decklist for Patrice also basically says that it works ("Patrice’s weakness, the Watcher from Another Dimension, is something you always need to be ready to deal with. A well-timed Stray Cat... can help you get rid of it."). However, there have been a number of errors in this document in the past so I wouldn't cite it as a definitive ruling.

The problem with the above is that it contradicts an earlier official ruling that automatic evasion, where there is no skill test, does not trigger effects which occur on successful evasion (see https://arkhamdb.com/card/04062). But to muddy the waters further, in reply to another question, Matt said he was considering reversing this ruling because it might not be intuitive... having already reversed said ruling once before!

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It seems that based on the wording on both cards that it should work, but the murky part is that the watcher is all really in her head (and that’s why it’s at her location) until she successfully attacks or evades it and it leaves her awareness for a time, but it isn’t corporeal at that point, so even if she uses weapons or dances around, it just looks to others like she has gone mad for a moment or two. (Think Luna and Nargles) It’s not unless she isn’t psychologically strong enough to push it away, that it spawns at her location engaged with her. So the question is, when she secretly pulls that weakness, how does the Stray Cat even know there is an enemy at their location, if it’s all in Patrice’s head? 
 

Edited by Mimi61

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15 minutes ago, Mimi61 said:

It seems that based on the wording on both cards that it should work, but the murky part is that the watcher is all really in her head (and that’s why it’s at her location) until she successfully attacks or evades it and it leaves her awareness for a time, but it isn’t corporeal at that point, so even if she uses weapons or dances around, it just looks to others like she has gone mad for a moment or two. (Think Luna and Nargles) It’s not unless she isn’t psychologically strong enough to push it away, that it spawns at her location engaged with her. So the question is, when she secretly pulls that weakness, how does the Stray Cat even know there is an enemy at their location, if it’s all in Patrice’s head? 
At least, that is how I am playing her Watcher. My companions figure she’s either a little delusional, or more dimensionally sensitive than they are! 

It doesn't have to know.  She only has to believe it knows.

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2 minutes ago, CSerpent said:

It doesn't have to know.  She only has to believe it knows.

Good point. And cats are in a dimension of their own anyway!! 

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Trickier is what happens when it attacks and you apply the damage to an ally.  Is Patrice herself doing that damage?  Heck, how is she getting damaged, for that matter?  This gets dark quick.

Edited by CSerpent

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22 minutes ago, CSerpent said:

Trickier is what happens when it attacks and you apply the damage to an ally.  Is Patrice herself doing that damage?  Heck, how is she getting damaged, for that matter?  This gets dark quick.

No joke! Who knew that sweet Patrice, the gifted violinist, was actually super dangerous to befriend?  Maybe that’s how her “cursed” trait comes into play...

Too bad, because could there ever be a more thematic use for Deny Existence?   

 

 

Edited by Mimi61

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Totally off that topic, has anyone else noticed that the Upcoming Page doesn’t have Weaver of the Cosmos anywhere?  Everything else that’s been announced, including Dexter’s Novella is there. 
 

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On 1/13/2020 at 7:38 AM, Allonym said:

Moonstone is definitely great with Patrice's Violin (though you cannot rely on getting your Violin before you get Moonstone). Don't think it would make me run Scrounge For Supplies, though - part of the benefit of Moonstone is that you can play it without using any actions, so if you Scrounge for it, suddenly it costs you an action - but more than that, it would hopefully never hit your discard pile in the first place, as you'd play it when you discard it, 

I just want to make sure I understand the discard process correctly for Patrice to play Moonstone. Since Moonstone says it can’t be committed or played from your hand, I take that to mean she can’t throw it to Cornered right? I don’t think it even has skill icons. The card says “[reaction]After you discard Moonstone from your hand: Play it (paying its cost)” 

So here is my question. Does the wording on the card mean it needs a player window to discard and play it in? 
In Patrice’s case, she doesn’t discard her hand until the “draw” part of the investigation phase and the player window in the investigation phase is at the beginning before re-set. So can she actually play it when she discards her hand? 

Edited by Mimi61

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12 minutes ago, Mimi61 said:

I just want to make sure I understand the discard process correctly for Patrice to play Moonstone. Since Moonstone says it can’t be committed or played from your hand, I take that to mean she can’t throw it to Cornered right? I don’t think it even has skill icons. The card says “[reaction]After you discard Moonstone from your hand: Play it (paying its cost)” 

So here is my question. Does the wording on the card mean it needs a player window to discard and play it in? 
In Patrice’s case, she doesn’t discard her hand until the “draw” part of the investigation phase and the player window in the investigation phase is at the beginning before re-set. So can she actually play it when she discards her hand? 

There is nothing stopping you discarding Moonstone via Cornered (or any other effect, e.g. Patrice's Violin); Cornered doesn't commit or play a card, it simply gives you +2 to a test and you discard a card as the cost to activate the ability.

The text "You cannot play or commit Moonstone from your hand" prevents you using the Play action, or any other effect that allows you to Play a card, to play Moonstone while it is in your hand (the part about committing is pretty irrelevant since you couldn't commit it anyway, with no icons, but I guess they were just making certain).

The reaction ability "After you discard Moonstone from your hand: Play it (paying its cost)." means that you can activate the reaction in response to discarding Moonstone in order to play it. The wording on the card does not require a player window at all - player windows are for activating free triggered abilities (lightning bolt) and playing Fast cards, and are not required for Response effects at all - responses can be used always and only when their triggering conditions are met. Additionally, the restriction on only playing Fast assets during your turn is irrelevant since you're not playing it via the Fast keyword, but as part of a special response.

In brief - you absolutely can discard Moonstone to use Cornered, Patrice's Violin, "Ashcan" Pete's or Wendy Adams' abilities, or any other effect that allows or requires you to discard a card from your hand. If you discard Moonstone from your hand for any reason (including but not limited to Patrice's forced hand discard, using any of the aforementioned discard effects, encounter card effects that cause you to discard cards, discarding after checking hand size and having too many cards in hand, Sefina's discard down to hand size at the start of the game, backlash from Mists of R'lyeh, the effect of Scroll of Prophecies, the list goes on), you can activate its Reaction ability, pay 3 resources and play it without using an action. Patrice can play it after her forced discard, you can play it via Cornered, anything that discards it from your hand.

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1 hour ago, Mimi61 said:

Totally off that topic, has anyone else noticed that the Upcoming Page doesn’t have Weaver of the Cosmos anywhere?  Everything else that’s been announced, including Dexter’s Novella is there. 
 

It's still listed on the product page, not sure why it wouldn't be on the Upcoming.

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1 hour ago, Allonym said:

n brief - you absolutely can discard Moonstone to use Cornered, Patrice's Violin, "Ashcan" Pete's or Wendy Adams' abilities, or any other effect that allows or requires you to discard a card from your hand. If you discard Moonstone

Thank you. That was how I understood it when the card came out. Then we started having a discussion about discarding in general and Patrice’s discard mechanic specifically and started wondering if she could play it if she had no reason to discard it during the investigation phase. My Cornered confusion was just my brain. Somehow I was thinking committing not discarding. Maybe because I always say I’m throwing a card to Cornered, even though I realize I’m discarding it. Duh. Can I use the excuse that English isn’t my first language?? 

Edited by Mimi61

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"The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath" and the other Randolph related stories are some of my favorite Lovecraft works. I was ecstatic to hear that "Dreamlands" was the next cycle! So far I love it; seeing how two separate stories are happening simultaneously is so much fun. I made 4 investigator decks in order to have 2-person groups for both A & B, while trying to keep it thematic for flavor. 

 

FFG is my favorite gaming company, and will continue to be so; Matthew Newman and his team is the main reason for this. I hope to meet him at GenCon 2020! Got an email from him last year when I submitted a question to Customer Support about a story scenario. Very nice guy!

 

I can't wait to see where this will go(though I've read the books and am currently unspoiled, I have my suspicions :P)! Predicting a "At the Mountains of Madness" theme next cycle or after!

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On 1/12/2020 at 4:57 PM, Allonym said:

So anyway, Dark Side of the Moon

I’m not sure if anyone else has received Point of No Return yet, but mine came today. As always, am looking forward to your thoughts on the new cards, especially what they’ve done with Dream Diary. 

Edited by Mimi61

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1 hour ago, Mimi61 said:

I’m not sure if anyone else has received Point of No Return yet, but mine came today. As always, am looking forward to your thoughts on the new cards, especially what they’ve done with Dream Diary. 

I am so jealous that you get things so early. I am dying to know what the dream diary does.

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1 hour ago, Mimi61 said:

I’m not sure if anyone else has received Point of No Return yet, but mine came today. As always, am looking forward to your thoughts on the new cards, especially what they’ve done with Dream Diary. 

I definitely have not seen any spoilers for Point of No Return, so I can't put up any thoughts yet (aside from Daredevil and A Glimmer of Hope). And even then I probably want to play with some of them to truly see. For instance, I have no clear idea of whether A Glimmer of Hope is useless on Patrice, or tech against specific weaknesses, or really excellent...

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6 hours ago, Allonym said:

I definitely have not seen any spoilers for Point of No Return, so I can't put up any thoughts yet (aside from Daredevil and A Glimmer of Hope). And even then I probably want to play with some of them to truly see. For instance, I have no clear idea of whether A Glimmer of Hope is useless on Patrice, or tech against specific weaknesses, or really excellent...

To me, A Glimmer if Hope looks to be a two sided coin for Patrice. She should be able to get them in into her discard pile fast enough to make good use of them. It’s an action and resource, but also a reusable +3 regardless of what she draws during upkeep. 
There are some interesting new cards. I won’t spoil any, but will say that the only 0 level cards are a Glimmer of Hope. I am interested in your take aways. 

 

Edited by Mimi61

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