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Duciris

Cycle V: The Dream-Eaters

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Posted (edited)

That is perfect! ūüėā¬† Maybe all of the seeker Ally cards should be required¬†to receive a new uniform of yellow shirts and overalls and start speaking gibberish when Mandy¬†is in the house.¬†

I have been salivating for days trying to come  up with every way to eliminate her signature cards early and still reap the benefits. Anna Kaslow and Research Librarian were some of my first thoughts. What about Backpack as another option? I can’t decide on what the best deck size would be, especially considering that cards will probably get added to decks from the campaign as well. Is it likely that if the deck size is increased, extra weaknesses may be have to be added, or does her signature card kind of take that role? 

Yeah, aside from Stick to the Plan not being available because it’s a guardian card, I don’t think it could work anyway, since you are not at a location when you set it up. Set up happens before game play. 

Maybe the¬†art¬†can be representative of¬†her respective 3 deck sizes or her 3 secondary classes....ūü§Ē

Edited by Mimi61

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27 minutes ago, akaanqualrus said:

The "Max one Research ability per search" clause on Occult Evidence has me thinking we'll get other cards with research abilities this cycle, which is great !

I hope so too! And then I thought... or is it just to stop triggering all three Occult Evidence at once?!

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1 hour ago, akaanqualrus said:

The "Max one Research ability per search" clause on Occult Evidence has me thinking we'll get other cards with research abilities this cycle, which is great !

So far, all we can be certain of is that it limits Occult Research itself, and that it's future-proofing in case new Research abilities appear.

This is similar to the "Limit 1 footwear in play" on Track Shoes - there's no other Footwear cards currently in game, so it's functionally identical to "Limit 1 in play", but we can't be sure if that means they definitely plan to make more in future, or if it's been worded that way just in case.

If we do see Research as a proper archetype, I'd really love that. It would be great to have a proper decktype like that for Seekers, and the random element is very appealing.

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1 hour ago, Allonym said:

So far, all we can be certain of is that it limits Occult Research itself, and that it's future-proofing in case new Research abilities appear.

This is similar to the "Limit 1 footwear in play" on Track Shoes - there's no other Footwear cards currently in game, so it's functionally identical to "Limit 1 in play", but we can't be sure if that means they definitely plan to make more in future, or if it's been worded that way just in case.

If we do see Research as a proper archetype, I'd really love that. It would be great to have a proper decktype like that for Seekers, and the random element is very appealing.

Great observation. I'm very much in agreement here: I'd love to see a Research archetype that takes Seeker searching abilities to a new level. 

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3 hours ago, Allonym said:

So far, all we can be certain of is that it limits Occult Research itself, and that it's future-proofing in case new Research abilities appear.

Yes, until that clause registered, I thought you could do whatever to discard the weakness, then use No Stone Unturned for three clues on top of drawing two cards.  If nothing else, the clause prevents that bomb.

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12 hours ago, Mimi61 said:

I have been salivating for days trying to come  up with every way to eliminate her signature cards early and still reap the benefits. Anna Kaslow and Research Librarian were some of my first thoughts. What about Backpack as another option?

Backpack's got potential, I suppose. In particular, you're likely to want to use Mandy's ability to search nine (instead of attaching four) anyway, since you might not even find four valid targets in your top six cards anyway.

Rook's another good idea, particularly once you've got high-level cards and scenario rewards buried in your deck (and therefore start wanting to dig for specific cards). Unlike most of the other options, Rook dredging up your weakness doesn't negate the entire card. You only burn a single secret on your Shocking Discovery; he's still got at least two uses left afterwards.

12 hours ago, Mimi61 said:

can’t decide on what the best deck size would be, especially considering that cards will probably get added to decks from the campaign as well. Is it likely that if the deck size is increased, extra weaknesses may be have to be added, or does her signature card kind of take that role? 

Getting extra weaknesses at larger deck sizes would be disastrous. 

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12 hours ago, Mimi61 said:

Is it likely that if the deck size is increased, extra weaknesses may be have to be added, or does her signature card kind of take that role?

A larger deck is a huge disadvantage with only a small number of advantages, so adding more weaknesses would be horrible.

It remains to be seen whether there'll be any benefit to a larger deck aside from additional copies of Occult Research - if not, I can't see why anyone would go above 30 cards except for some very unusual builds.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe we’ll see a return of encounter-based deck milling in dreameaters. Everyone dreads those cards (Beyond the Veil) even though they rarely trigger. I suppose a 50 card deck could be a counter measure. It’s also possible there may be triggers that raise location shroud if you have, say, less than 20 cards remaining in your deck. Just some thoughts but maybe there is an advantage that we just can’t see yet.

Edited by Soakman

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Posted (edited)

I hadn’t thought of Mr Rook from that standpoint. Good call. I love that these one use and less used allies are all getting new life breathed into them! I think upgraded No Stone Unturned also becomes pretty powerful and worth the expense. 

Edited by Mimi61

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Allonym said:

A larger deck is a huge disadvantage with only a small number of advantages, so adding more weaknesses would be horrible.

It remains to be seen whether there'll be any benefit to a larger deck aside from additional copies of Occult Research - if not, I can't see why anyone would go above 30 cards except for some very unusual builds.

Well if you don't need to add extra weaknesses then the upside is that weaknesses are diluted in your deck.  Also your deck is more resistant to milling, which is huge in Dunwich Legacy.  The downside of your deck being less consistent is mitigated by Mandy being great at searching her deck and Seekers having better than average draw (even better if you give Mandy Survivor cards).  So I could definitely see making Mandy's deck bigger being not a bad idea. 

Though I agree if it came at the cost of having to put extra weaknesses in there, I'd say that's a hard pass.  That's way too harsh a restriction just for a larger deck size. It's not that big an upside and as you say it has it's downsides.

Edited by phillos

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, phillos said:

Well if you don't need to add extra weaknesses then the upside is that weaknesses are diluted in your deck.  Also your deck is more resistant to milling, which is huge in Dunwich Legacy.  The downside of your deck being less consistent is mitigated by Mandy being great at searching her deck and Seekers having better than average draw (even better if you give Mandy Survivor cards).  So I could definitely see making Mandy's deck bigger being not a bad idea. 

Though I agree if it came at the cost of having to put extra weaknesses in there, I'd say that's a hard pass.  That's way too harsh a restriction just for a larger deck size. It's not that big an upside and as you say it has it's downsides.

The big problem is the extra copies of Occult Research to be honest. Drawing into those (not coming across them while searching) practically is another weakness. All they do is make you lose actions unless you want to commit them for a single wild pip (sadly, probably the best option, but you've still wasted a draw action).

I wish they had more pips on them, even up to 3 or 4 so they would have some useful function and a reason to want 3 of them in your deck. Even the addition of "Draw a Card" to the play effect would be a boon. At the same time, Mandy's weakness is reaaaaaaaaaally mild.

Edited by Soakman

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Posted (edited)

That's true it is kinda like a weakness in that it's a suboptimal draw when you do draw it off the top of the deck.  Though it is a wild icon so it's not completely worthless and you don't have to shuffle it back if you don't want to shuffle it.  In fact I really question whether you ever should reshuffle it.  The action penalty seems not worth it when she could have just investigated with that action considering her high int.  Feels like that should have been a fast action.

I'm sure there will be times when shuffling it will make sense like when you have  a No Stone Unturned in hand and are sitting at a location with a hash Haunted effect or you have Locked Door at your location or something.  Though most of the time I think I'd probably just play it for it's icon.

Edited by phillos

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, phillos said:

That's true it is kinda like a weakness in that it's a suboptimal draw when you do draw it off the top of the deck.  Though it is a wild icon so it's not completely worthless and you don't have to shuffle it back if you don't want to shuffle it.  In fact I really question whether you ever should reshuffle it.  The action penalty seems not worth it when she could have just investigated with that action considering her high int.  Feels like that should have been a fast action.

I'm sure there will be times when shuffling it will make sense like when you have  a No Stone Unturned in hand and are sitting at a location with a hash Haunted effect or you have Locked Door at your location or something.  Though most of the time I think I'd probably just play it for it's icon.

The only benefit I can think of, again, is that it gives her more milling resistance. A larger deck is resistant to deck milling, while having throw-away cards in hand gives her less of a fright if her hand is milled for some reason. More reason to take Occult Lexicon and Glimpse the Unthinkable for her. The former gives you blood-rites to convert the discarded occult research into damage or resources, while the latter lets you shuffle them back into your deck and replace your hand.

Ultimately though, even with these strategies in place, any time I draw an Occult Research I'm going to feel like I just whiffed snagging a card from my deck that I could have actually done something with. 

Edited by Soakman

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Soakman said:

The only benefit I can think of, again, is that it gives her more milling resistance. A larger deck is resistant to deck milling, while having throw-away cards in hand gives her less of a fright if her hand is milled for some reason. More reason to take Occult Lexicon and Glimpse the Unthinkable for her. The former gives you blood-rites to convert the discarded occult research into damage or resources, while the latter lets you shuffle them back into your deck and replace your hand.

Ultimately though, even with these strategies in place, any time I draw an Occult Research I'm going to feel like I just whiffed snagging a card from my deck that I could have actually done something with. 

My fear with giving Mandy the¬†option of building such a big deck, is that there may¬†be a lot¬†more¬†encounter cards that are going to force removing the top (?)¬†cards of your deck if a skill test fails¬†or makes you discard your whole hand, or terror cards in your threat area which say ¬†‚Äúforced-¬†if your deck runs out, boom, you are taking some¬†serious damage/horror, good luck with that.‚Ä̬†We may be lulling ourselves¬†into thinking 30 cards is enough...but¬†Seekers don‚Äôt have as many ways to cancel those¬†kinds¬†of card¬†effects. (And don‚Äôt the big boys know it!)¬†That would make First Watch even more helpful, but we won‚Äôt get it right away. (Again, I think waaay to much about this stuff,¬†envisioning things¬†that aren‚Äôt even there.....yet.)

 

Edited by Mimi61

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I liked it.  A card you can't control could suddenly show up attached to you that gave you an extra stressor.  10 damage is excessive, and short of my favorite Leo deck, is not something anyone can just shrug off.  I hated the milling in Dunwich as a player, but love it thematically and mechanically as a gamer.

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2 hours ago, Duciris said:

I liked it.  A card you can't control could suddenly show up attached to you that gave you an extra stressor.  10 damage is excessive, and short of my favorite Leo deck, is not something anyone can just shrug off.  I hated the milling in Dunwich as a player, but love it thematically and mechanically as a gamer.

Yes. I drew it with disasters results...twice. No PTSD here. 

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21 hours ago, Eldan985 said:

I don't think they'll do that again after Dunwich.

It is revisted again in another story arc.  I think its thematic whenever servants of Yog are around, because of the whole "knowledge will corrupt you" angle. 

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So Versatile is (if I'm being honest) really bad design. Insofar as, it is a near-worthless card, unless and until it enables some broken combo. Also further steps on the toes of Lola Hayes but that's an inevitable decline.

"Let God Sort Them Out..." is infinitely better design than Delve Too Deep - the underlying design is far more appealing (complete a challenge rather than take a punishment), it only affects 1 investigator so it doesn't ramp up really hard by player count, and it's far harder to abuse.

Ethereal Form is an actually good mystic evade event, being 0-exp and giving you an actual bonus to the evade attempt as well as a nice extra benefit. Plus it's really great for Sefina Rousseau. That's the card I really like of the three new ones.

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