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Hrathen

I want an LAAT

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I just watched Crabook's video on what might be in Legion based on the the cover of the Clone Wars Starter set.  And suggested that though it might be too big, but man I want it.  I probably will never buy enough clone wars stuff to play them (I just have too many other things I need to buy, I'm looking at you SSD) but I will totally buy a LAAT and 

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1 hour ago, Hrathen said:

Would it still be cool if it wasn't quite to scale?

 

I think that it would be better if it was to scale, but it is unlikely that they would make it to scale.

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I will always be on the side of keeping everything in scale. And, yes, the Canon stats make the LAAT way to big for Legion. The wingspan and length is 17 meters. Where the length of a snowspeeder is 5.3 meters. Basically line up 3 Snowspeeders. It's that big. The official load out of a LAAT is 4-6 crew, 1 medical droid, 4 speeder bikes, and 30 troopers! There is no way a standard LAAT could fit on a Legion table. 

But. The visual evidence does sometimes contradict the official stats. This happens with a number of vehicles. There are shots where the gunship looks much smaller. So if FFG wants to release a smaller varient of the LAAT, I'm in. But I sure hope it would be recognized as a varient, and not a standard LAAT. 

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Well, just going off of box art, there's a Venator-Class Star Destroyer there too, and I don't think we're getting that in Legion.

 

More seriously, a LAAT would be awesome in the game.  Make it idiculously expensive, but throwing dice out every arc with Arsenal 2-3 would be cool.  The gunship is one of my favorite SW designs, and one of the most notable Clone Wars designs (an era that had most of the best ships and vehicles in the franchise, IMO)  The size issue could be a problem, but I tend to agree that the /i version is smaller than the vehicle transport based on the film's depiction.

As for the AT-TE, I think it would be a cool "escalation" or "epic" unit, though I'd hope they'd hold off a while on units like it and the AT-AT, and have the initial waves be about the smaller, and more practical for gameplay units like the fighter tank, AT-XT, or AT-AP.  

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17 hours ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

Flyers really shouldn't be in skirmish games... but if the AT-AT shows up I'm sure the Clones will get something...

Darth Vader is well beyond the scope of the game. "Should" sailed away on release day. But in the distorted standards of minis games, this is a pitched battle/mass combat/whatever game.

A fight between parties of 12 men, we call a skirmish.

A skirmish between groups of 30 to 100, we call a battle.

A battle of 5,000 to 50,000 per side doesn't exist in miniature wargaming. You have to get into cardboard chit games for that. 

Edited by TauntaunScout

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4 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Darth Vader is well beyond the scope of the game. "Should" sailed away on release day. But in the distorted standards of minis games, this is a pitched battle/mass combat/whatever game.

A fight between parties of 12 men, we call a skirmish.

A skirmish between groups of 30 to 100, we call a battle.

A battle of 5,000 to 50,000 per side doesn't exist in miniature wargaming. You have to get into cardboard chit games for that. 

One, I think you mean the Palpatine, not Vader...

Two, any game with a 1:1 figure scale is a skirmish game going all the way back to Donald Featherstone. Legion with its reinforced platoon per side and clear 1:1 figure scale is definitely a skirmish game.

Flyers in games with a football field scaled battlefield are just, well, terrible. It's as bad as Flames of War's tank parking lots. Still I imagine if the game's got staying power we'll get AT-ATs, AT-TEs, and maybe a long ways down the road flyers. Keep in mind though that the flagship game, X-wing, took something like five years to release five epic ships in total with Scum still lacking their corvette to this day. Only the whales bought them in any case (call me Moby ****).

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2 hours ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

One, I think you mean the Palpatine, not Vader...

Two, any game with a 1:1 figure scale is a skirmish game going all the way back to Donald Featherstone. Legion with its reinforced platoon per side and clear 1:1 figure scale is definitely a skirmish game.

Flyers in games with a football field scaled battlefield are just, well, terrible. It's as bad as Flames of War's tank parking lots. Still I imagine if the game's got staying power we'll get AT-ATs, AT-TEs, and maybe a long ways down the road flyers. Keep in mind though that the flagship game, X-wing, took something like five years to release five epic ships in total with Scum still lacking their corvette to this day. Only the whales bought them in any case (call me Moby ****).Legion was a game of thrilling infantry battles.

Palpatine is too! Plot armor just doesn't translate well to these games.

Legion is specifically advertised as a battle game, not as a skirmish game. Course it's also specifically advertised as an infantry game so I don't worry too much about vehicles except as an interesting bonus.

I won't buy any LAAT's or X-Wing's or anything. But any sense of "should" is gone already.

 

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7 hours ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

Two, any game with a 1:1 figure scale is a skirmish game going all the way back to Donald Featherstone. Legion with its reinforced platoon per side and clear 1:1 figure scale is definitely a skirmish game.

This is not accurate. Skirmish wargames entail have each unit consisting of a single model, not just a "1:1 figure scale." Otherwise, Warhammer 40k is a "Skirmish" game, as are many other platoon+ scale games that use multi-model units and can number in the 100s of models per side.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-to-man_wargame

Edited by Caimheul1313

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18 hours ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

Flyers in games with a football field scaled battlefield are just, well, terrible. It's as bad as Flames of War's tank parking lots. 

Accurate and hilarious. I never understood the appeal of flames of war. "Let us line up all our tanks in a row and fire" 

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19 hours ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

40k is a skirmish game; it's a big one, but it's still a skirmish game. Compare with The Sword and the Flame, Donnybrook, Stargrunt, etc

No it isn't. As I said above, and as defined in wikipedia, a Skirmish game means a unit is a single individual, not each model in a unit represents a single person. A further compendium of wargaming definitions can found here: https://dnnlgwick.blob.core.windows.net/portals/0/NWCDepartments/Wargaming Department/A Compendium of Wargaming Terms 20 Sept 2017.pdf?sr=b&si=DNNFileManagerPolicy&sig=BEh3XmMzUbqnHm2SIms6QAWn5YWCMWBWnU8Ira1Oud8%3D
In the above document, Dust Warfare, and other wargames like it (such as Warhammer 40k), are classified as "Tactical" wargames: 

Quote

Tactical:

o The level of war at which battles and engagements are planned and executed to achieve military objectives assigned to tactical units or task forces.206

o Units range from individual vehicles and squads to platoons or companies, and are measured by the types and ranges of individual weaponry. A solitary force, others occasionally intervening, will usually cover the single battle or part of a large battle to be simulated. Examples of this kind of game are Memoir '44, and Dust Warfare.207


Regardless, this is off topic and a discussion that has often been brought up in wargaming circles, especially as the term "Skirmish Wargame" seems to have evolved as the games have changed. 
 

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