Current Clan And Family Champions (And There Families)

[LuxuriousRhino 13]

As of the death of Hantei XXXVIII is there anywhere I can find an up to date listing of the current heads of the great clans, as well as any children and spouses they may have? 

[DGLaderoute 897]

Off the top of my head, this is what we know:

 

Crab - Champion - Hida Kisada

Spouse: Deceased (at least, I think she is. She might also just be unnamed and not yet on-screen)

Children:

-Hida Yakamo

-Hida O-Ushi

-Hida Sukune

Siblings: none

 

Crane - Champion - Doji Hotaru

Spouse: Doji Kuzunobu

Children: none (yet)

Siblings:

Doji Kuwanan

Doji Shizue (half-sister)

 

Dragon - Champion - Togashi Yokuni

Spouse: None (or not yet revealed)

Children: None (or not yet revealed)

Siblings: None (or not yet revealed)

 

Lion - Champion - Akodo Toturi

Spouse: Akodo (Isawa) Kaede

Children: one (as yet unborn)

Siblings: Akodo Arasou (deceased)

 

Phoenix - Champion - Shiba Tsukune

Spouse: none

Children: none

Siblings: Hatsu (deceased)

 

Scorpion - Champion - Bayushi Shoju

Spouse: Bayushi Kachiko

Children: Bayushi Dairu

Siblings: Bayushi Aramoro (half-brother, I believe)

 

Unicorn - Champion - Shinjo Altansarnai

Spouse: none (although she has a long relationship with Iuchi Daiyu, with whom she has 3 kids)

Children:

Shinjo Yasamura
Shinjo Haruko
Shinjo Shono

--

I'm pretty sure that's the state of the Clan Champs and their families at the time of the Hantei's death. Of course, the story could always introduce something new, like a sibling for Kisada or a spouse for Yokuni, and they just haven't been mentioned yet.

[Alisair Longreach 221]

I have sneaking suspicion that Princess Doji Chiyoe is the daughter of Doji Hotaru and Kuzunobu.

Iuchi Sharhai is the stepdaughter of Altansarnai.

[Alisair Longreach 221]

Doji Shizue is the adopted sister of Hotaru, not her half-sister (as far as I know).

[Tonbo Karasu 2,606]

Excuse me, I'll just put this here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wc6mHUQjKdTYkncbI_NwBSTCSI5x9ZkYYiHYg7Iinc8/edit?usp=sharing

Hopefully that helps.

 

We're only missing 3 Great Family daimyo names - Seppun, Agasha and Kitsu.

[DGLaderoute 897]

2 hours ago, Alisair Longreach said:

Doji Shizue is the adopted sister of Hotaru, not her half-sister (as far as I know).

No, you're right...I typed "half-sister", using that as synonymous with "adopted sister", but it's not.

Forgot about Shahai (mea culpa, although I tend to see her through a very different lens because of her role in the story)

I have my doubts about Chiyoe, though. In the clan letter, Kakita Yoshi describes her as "eloquent". Hotaru is a little young to have an "eloquent" daughter, since eloquence is normally a function of speaking well and would probably only apply to (at the youngest) a child of at least seven or so. That would have Hotaru having given birth to her in her early-mid teens, which I suppose is possible, but seems a little unlikely. Still, I guess it could be her child...but I honestly don't know, not having been involved in incorporating her into a story or anything. So I'm really just speculating here. 

[Alisair Longreach 221]

My impression of Hotaru from the fiction is that she is around 30. I base that on that she is a bit younger than Kachiko who has a son who is 14? years old. Kachiko is thus early thirties. Chiyoe might be a couple years younger than Dairu.

[DGLaderoute 897]

The trouble, actually, is that we (or at least I) envisioned Hotaru as being in her early 20s...younger than Kachiko, whose son Dairu is about 12, going on 13. Reasoning that Kachiko had him when she was about 16 or 17, she would now be about 29 (ish).  Hotaru, though, was decidedly younger, to the turn of 7 or 8 years. That would have her having a child who's now about 7 when she was 14 or 15, which is possible, I guess, but a little on the young side, even for Rokugan. If Chioye was any older than that, then we're getting into really problematic territory.

That said, I honestly don't really know if Chiyoe is Hotaru's child. I've written stories involving Hotaru a couple of times now, but the issue of her family never really came up, aside from a single reference in "Her Father's Daughter". In both cases, though, I envisioned her in her early 20s. Personally, I doubt that Chiyoe is her daughter, if we take Yoshi at his word in that letter that she's "eloquent". Nor is it essential that she BE Hotaru's daughter, even if Yoshi would like to see her married off to the Emperor. From a crass, politically-expedient point of view--i.e. Yoshi's--any suitable Doji bride would do as the Emperor's consort, as long as she's politically savvy and, of course, clearly loyal to the Crane (!)

[Hida Jitenno 586]

8 hours ago, DGLaderoute said:

Crab - Champion - Hida Kisada

Spouse: Deceased (at least, I think she is. She might also just be unnamed and not yet on-screen)

Children:

-Hida Yakamo

-Hida O-Ushi

-Hida Sukune

Siblings: none [emphasis added]

*pours one out for Hida Tsuru and their sister*

[DarkHorse 786]

7 hours ago, DGLaderoute said:

Off the top of my head, this is what we know:

 

Crab - Champion - Hida Kisada

Spouse: Deceased (at least, I think she is. She might also just be unnamed and not yet on-screen)

Children:

-Hida Yakamo

-Hida O-Ushi

-Hida Sukune

Siblings: none

 

From Old5R but I am assuming is still correct: Hida Tsuru is Kisada's younger brother. Hida Amoro is Kisada's nephew by an unnamed younger sister who died giving birth to Amoro. Kisada's wife Tsuriko died 5 years after Sukune was born from a protracted illness.

[LuxuriousRhino 13]

9 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Excuse me, I'll just put this here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wc6mHUQjKdTYkncbI_NwBSTCSI5x9ZkYYiHYg7Iinc8/edit?usp=sharing

Hopefully that helps.

 

We're only missing 3 Great Family daimyo names - Seppun, Agasha and Kitsu.

Holy ****...I was looking to do the same thing but this is scale I hadn’t considered. 

[DGLaderoute 897]

3 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

From Old5R but I am assuming is still correct: Hida Tsuru is Kisada's younger brother. Hida Amoro is Kisada's nephew by an unnamed younger sister who died giving birth to Amoro. Kisada's wife Tsuriko died 5 years after Sukune was born from a protracted illness.

That could indeed all be very correct. However, I don't think we've had any of it confirmed in the new lore. I tried sticking to things I could recall, off the top of my head, that had been specifically mentioned in the new setting. However, sure, the general rule would still apply... "if it's something up to roughly late summer/early fall 1123, then unless it actually gets contradicted, you can pretty much assume it's still in canon". So I guess we can also assume, for the time being anyway, that this stuff is still true.

[DarkHorse 786]

15 minutes ago, DGLaderoute said:

So I guess we can also assume, for the time being anyway, that this stuff is still true.

To paraphrase Han Solo "it's true, all of it...unless and until directly contradicted by a primary source that reserves the right to contradict itself"

[Tonbo Karasu 2,606]

I'd also think that there would be a problem with Chiyoe being the Champion's heir.  You don't want the next Clan Champion being married to the Emperor, since it would unite the positions of Emperor and Champion of the Crane Clan - something that would really mess up the balance of power.

[Alisair Longreach 221]

4 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I'd also think that there would be a problem with Chiyoe being the Champion's heir.  You don't want the next Clan Champion being married to the Emperor, since it would unite the positions of Emperor and Champion of the Crane Clan - something that would really mess up the balance of power.

I think you are right. Chiyoe is probably not Hotaru's daughter but her niece by an as yet unknown sibling of Doji Satsume. Kakita Toshimoko and Yoshi are his brothers-in-law.

[Magnus Grendel 11,673]

On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 5:35 PM, Tonbo Karasu said:

We're only missing 3 Great Family daimyo names - Seppun, Agasha and Kitsu.

The highest ranking Seppun we know is Seppun Ishikawa. He's captain of the Seppun Honour Guard (which along with the Hidden Guard are the two Seppun organisations that matter), but since Emerald Empire says he was appointed to that role by Doji Satsume (as Emerald Champion) it's unlikely that he's the Seppun Daimyo - and in the card game his card doesn't have the Daimyo trait, after all.

He does deal with Ide Tadaji (who is a clan family daimyo) as what feels like an equal, though, so - they say "ambassador" and "captain" so we don't have the san/sama check on social status - so however far he is from the post of seppun daimyo, he can't be very far down the tree.....