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Is this the end of some of our favourite things???

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Posted (edited)

This is the first I’ve seen or heard of it. I don’t see any dates on it though so I’m not sure how long it’s been around, though the title of the file contains “031419” which probably means March 14, 2019, so it’s probably been around at least since then. 

 

This sounds worrying...

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Do NOT include substantial amounts of copied (including digitally copied) game materials in your Fan Creation.


The more of our material that is included in something, the more it is really a duplication rather than a Fan Creation. Here are a couple of key examples of what would fall under ‘substantial amount’ and not be acceptable:


Online versions of our games: this includes but is not limited to creating online versions via websites such as TableTop Simulator on the Steam® platform, Vassal, LackeyLCG, and Fantasy Grounds.

 

 

Edited by Herowannabe

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Everything is illegal:

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Don’t start selling those cakes, t-shirts, or alternate art cards though - selling products that have our intellectual property in it would be infringing on our rights. When we say “selling products”, we mean any type of money exchanging hands in return for a Fan Creation, regardless of profit. This includes any type of fundraising (like Kickstarter), actively or passively suggesting/requesting donations (like having a Patreon account), or other types of direct or indirect monetary sponsorship

You can't sell T-shirts, alt art cards, tokens, 3d-printed alternate models with anything relating to X-wing. Can't give them away for your patreon supporters either.

I suppose if your tokens are different enough you could just call them "Spaceship Miniature Game Tokens" and hope someone stumbles upon them.

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Online versions of our games: this includes but is not limited to creating online versions via websites such as TableTop Simulator on the Steam® platform, Vassal, LackeyLCG, and Fantasy Grounds.

Vassal and TTS ded.

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6. No Apps allowed. For licensing and other business reasons, we simply cannot allow our intellectual property in software applications of any kind - whether or not they follow all of the rules above

Apps of any kind are illegal, no exceptions (even if they are following all the guidelines, lol). Doesn't matter it's free, doesn't matter if it copies any content. Can I get an F in the chat for usable squad builders, and Fly Casual?

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22 minutes ago, Arkanta974 said:

So should I throw away my customs tokens/maneuvers now ? :o

You can make, own, and buy them but you can't sell them.

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If FFG/Asmodee produced some of the high quality material being made by 3rd party groups, then I would have zero issue buying from them. Their new manoeuvre templates look absolutely rubbish and I would not spend a cent on them. 

How do FFG know that templates are used for X Wing exclusively? I know it's a stretch, but producers could make templates, for no reason, and then claim, it's not for use with FFG products, but if an individual uses it for that???? Well it's not my fault.

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If they actually try and force this through and kill all the good 3rd party squad builders for X-Wing that's going to be a blow to the community.  I have not seen a single person at my FLGS or any other player that I have spoken to who uses the official X-Wing app, it's a dumpster fire of poor functionality and constant crashes. 

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Templates and tokens won't be a problem as long as they don't call them X-wing Miniatures Templates.
Most of them are already called Starship Combat Rulers or something like that.

Squadbuilders, that is something totally different. However:
 

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This policy only relates to our intellectual property - many of our games include intellectual property or other property owned by other companies or individuals. We cannot give permission or assurances that what is generally acceptable to us will be acceptable to any other intellectual property owner. It is up to you to find the guidelines of, or obtain specific permission from, those owners.


Star Wars is not Asmodee's, so I am not sure this document concerns X-wing players much.

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My hope is that they don't squash some of these enthusiasts that we love, but rather just ask for a percentage. 

Obviously it's even better if they just left us alone.  I don't see how doing this helps them unless they are actually selling an alternative.  Especially the squad-building apps.  Why the heck would they kill something that actually helps them sell more product?

 

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Having these guidelines doesn't mean they'll actually act on them. We can hope, at least, that they will only pursue those where the IP is in use and where the product is being sold. I worry about what that means for crowdfunded projects like Fly Casual, though. I wouldn't think 3rd party tokens and templates would fall under this but maybe I'm wrong about that. (Unless they had something like official game logos on them, maybe?)

And like mentioned above, this might only apply in full to those IPs wholly owned by Asmodee/FFG, not those IPs which they license out.

It could mean that, if actually enforced, that 3rd party sites might be able to put out all the info about the game without the images that are on cards and such. I know I've read before that game rules usually aren't considered part of the IP directly, but stuff like artwork is. I'm no expert, though, so I'd hope someone just happens to wander by this thread who is.

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There is having a policy and then there is enforcing a policy.  Having one, even if it is not enforced, is important and I can see why they would want to have one in place just in case that someone were to start cashing in some serious money using their products.

 

That being said, I would much rather that they approach this like Stellaris.  In that PC game, they actually hired the guy who made an AI mod.

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You guys are overreacting.

  1. 99% of tournaments, games, whatever... there is none who care that you use an alt art or third party template that's reasonably accurate
  2. FFG's tournament regulations still state you can use third party stuff in the remaining 1%

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18 minutes ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

So someone found a document in some obscure corner of FFG's website without any particular instance of FFG acting differently than they always have, and everybody panicked.

Sounds about right

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This kind of thing sucks for every party involved. 

To everyone grabbing pitchforks and marching on FFG/Disney: Trademark law REQUIRES that you defend your Trademark, because if you don't, and you know about it, you can lose the right to do so. They must enforce, because the next time the Trademark is infringed (Star Wars is BIG), they may not be allowed to. No favoritism, no collaboration.

 

Don'ts:

Do NOT contact FFG, Asmodee, or Disney explicitly about this! The more attention you force them to give to Vassal, etc. the greater the chances are they are FORCED to act on it. Legally! They must!

- Do NOT pester or talk to or ask the Devs about Vassal and TTS on FFG's live stream! This should be obvious.

 

Do's:

- Continue to support your community.

- FOLLOW THE RULES THE COMMUNITY PUTS FORTH. There's a reason we use the word "Gift" and not "Giveaway" at the moment.

 

 

Remember: The more attention you force them to give the issue, the greater the chances are they will be FORCED to act. Give them a reason to "lose" a CnD request in an internal communication or something like that. 

 

Fly casual, y'all.

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I mean, this

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For your scenario title: DO THIS: Continuum Magic or Continuum Magic: a fan expansion for Ultra-awesome™

DON’T DO THIS: Ultra-awesome™: Continuum Magic

For your website url, do not use “Ultra-awesome” in the domain name.

seems mostly like some "plausible deniability" stuff.  Like, they don't want to have to go into legal stuff against anyone.

The whole strikes me as a thing where, unless something actually happens, it's not worth doing anything more than keeping an eye on it.

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I can understand why people are concerned - the language around Vassal, Tabletop Simulator, apps, podcasts and Patreon is pretty specific, and targets a lot things the X-Wing community holds dear.  We'll see if there's any direct action as a result of it, but I can understand why this has got quite a few of the squad builder developers and podcast hosts nervous.

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31 minutes ago, bydand said:

This kind of thing sucks for every party involved. 

To everyone grabbing pitchforks and marching on FFG/Disney: Trademark law REQUIRES that you defend your Trademark, because if you don't, and you know about it, you can lose the right to do so. They must enforce, because the next time the Trademark is infringed (Star Wars is BIG), they may not be allowed to. No favoritism, no collaboration.

 

Don'ts:

Do NOT contact FFG, Asmodee, or Disney explicitly about this! The more attention you force them to give to Vassal, etc. the greater the chances are they are FORCED to act on it. Legally! They must!

- Do NOT pester or talk to or ask the Devs about Vassal and TTS on FFG's live stream! This should be obvious.

 

Do's:

- Continue to support your community.

- FOLLOW THE RULES THE COMMUNITY PUTS FORTH. There's a reason we use the word "Gift" and not "Giveaway" at the moment.

 

 

Remember: The more attention you force them to give the issue, the greater the chances are they will be FORCED to act. Give them a reason to "lose" a CnD request in an internal communication or something like that. 

 

Fly casual, y'all.

Exactly, that's why I really don't like the number of people reposting this stuff all over forums, FB groups and spamming it during streams. IIRC three people independently posted it during UK GC stream, like what do you people think will happen?

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Posted (edited)

It looks like more of a friendly reminder, except for the specific call out to app developers. If they start shutting down community contributors and content creators then the game will suffer. There won't be as much exposure or excitement surrounding the game. I wonder what percentage of players don't have 3rd party templates/tokens, don't watch or listen to podcasts, don't use a 3rd party squad builder app, don't use the digital versions, etc. This game is thriving because of these creators.

If something does happen I am sure we will all know about it very quickly and can start lighting our torches then.

Edited by Skitch_

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